Getting used to a dog leg box 348 - easy or hard?

[DP400]

Morning all, first time poster here in the Ferrari section. Having sold my 911 at the weekend im deciding what to buy next, either a TVR Tuscan or possibly max out the budget to get a 348 or a 360. I hope you dont mind helping me out with a couple of newbie questions:

How easy is it to get used to a dog leg box for someone whos never used one before and has spend the last 30+ years using regular H box?

Also if I do gown the Ferrari route rather than a Tuscan my budget would only stretch to a manual 360 in a non red / cream colour combo, but in a 348 I could get a red / cream convertible which would be my perfect spec. What in your opinion would be a better car in terms of values going forward and how much "better" is a 360 over a 348 for someone whos just gonna be using it for occasional drive outs on summer sunny weekends.

Any help or opinions you experienced guys can give me will be much appreciated.

Many thanks

[davek_964]

Ooh, I can answer this one. I went from a red / crema 348 to a non-red 360

Firstly : Dog leg - easy to get used to. Seems like it will be a pain, but you'll get used to it very quickly.

348 vs 360 :
My 348 was my first Ferrari. I expected it to be fragile and a bit of a nightmare - it wasn't. It was a decent, pretty solid car.
Having said that - it was old (even when I owned it slightly over 10 years ago) and it needed minor stuff sorting most months (often replacing electrical door pins which were a known weak point). Overall though it was a good car.
Oh - and crema seems like a good idea, but it isn't. It's a nightmare to keep clean.

The 360 is an enormous leap forward - and for me, was a much much better car. Still a brilliant car to drive, sounded great (I had stock exhaust). The 348 was a bit more go-cart - but the 360 was still excellent and for me had the perfect power to weight. It was fast, but not "I'm going to prison" fast.

348s jumped in price when I sold mine (just after I sold it of course). For a £25k - 30k car the 348 was great. For a £50-60k car that they seem to be now, I don't think it's good enough (348 owners would obviously disagree) and I'd choose the 360 every single time.

But - if the 348 is your dream car, the 360 will probably never be the right car for you.........

[silber]

I have a 348ts and also a manual 360 spider (plus a F512M also with a dog-leg manual). You will have no issue remembering the layout once you have forgotten once and gone forwards instead of backwards! Seriously though, you'll just be thinking about what gear you need next and moving through the box, so it's all the same. You'll have no trouble remembering that first is down and left.

Two very different cars though. The 348 is, and feels, much more compact and also feels much more mechanical in the sense that you feel more vibrations, the gearbox takes a few more minutes to warm up and likes a blip between changes to smoothly engage, and the steering is not assisted and so is absolutely full of feel as well as being nicely direct. It also pitches and yaws a bit more, with the driver feeling at the centre point of the car, which is actually really nice in the way you feel the balance of the car move with inputs, and is hugely engaging. It's fun all the time. After about 20 or 30 mins of driving you really feel how it's warmed through and woken up and gets slicker in the gear changes and movements generally. A lot of fun to punt around, very good front end grip, and you can chuck it about like a go-cart but be careful as no-one wants the rear to step out at speed. Can get little slides in roundabouts at will though. Is not at all fast, which can be useful re speedlimits but may also make the cost of engine out services less welcome relative to amount of performance. Engine doesn't sound special with the standard exhaust but a Tubi or Capristo lets it breath and sing like it should, adding a whole new dimension. Lots of fun and cool looking car.

The 360 is a much more urgent, precise, stiffer, more racy feeling car. Feels completely unrelated to the 360. You feel like you are sat forward and pointing the direction of the car from the front rather than being sat at the centre. It has less feel through the steering and chassis to the point that even after setting up the geo and having confidence in the handling, I find the last 5% of feel just missing from it and so pushing on is about trusting from experience rather than through outright feel. The stiffness, along with the engine, take the car to a much higher level of performance though and that is the trade-off. It feels light and you can really take a road apart, having massive fun as the engine plays it's song whilst delivering more more and more as you climb from 4,000 to 8,500rpm. Sometimes you might want more low down torque, but it's quite a lot of fun to scream along a road through the gears just working it hard, with lovely smooth, short, precise gearshifts and working hard to keep in band. It steers on the throttle too, out of hairpins or through quicker corners. It cruises well as well, though is loud if you're not in the mood but that's just a trade-off for having more excitement more of the time. Plenty of space - frankly, it could be smaller - and can get loads of luggage and additional bags in it behind the seats for road trips.

To summarise in my opinion: 348 is a very engaging, fun almost classic sportscar that's lovely to punt around in; the 360 is a much more aggressive, urgent machine that wants to go fast and dances when it does. I have taken both to test drives of newer models like F8 and 296 and had more fun getting back in the older models after the test drives. With each generation you need to go faster to bring it to life.

Have fun trying them both, bearing in mind it takes time to get under the skin of a Ferrari so a test drive will only tell you so much.

[ClaphamGT3]

The dog - leg gearbox issue is a complete non-issue; it is very intuitive and becomes 2nd nature very quickly

[DickyC]

Off Topic A Bit - the ZF 5-speed dog leg that I found a bit awkward in RHD cars was so much easier in a LHD car. Presumably the shift was originally laid out for LHD.

/irrelevant

[ex-devonpaul]

Tested one a few years ago, when the 348 was circa £30k and the 360 double that.

I can remember the paddles in the 360 being awkward to get used to, but I actually don't remember the gearbox in the 348 at all except that it was manual. The 360 was twice the price and twice the car, but ended up with a Gransport for similar money to a 348 for practical reasons.

[Fessia fancier]

DickyC said:

Off Topic A Bit - the ZF 5-speed dog leg that I found a bit awkward in RHD cars was so much easier in a LHD car. Presumably the shift was originally laid out for LHD.

/irrelevant

I also find the same though no issue in any event. Perhaps muscle memory ?

[m4tti]

Have experience of two of the three cars mentioned.

I’d avoid the Tuscan at all costs. I spent a huge amount of time and money rebuilding one. Whilst they are fun for 5 minutes, the suspension geometry is fundamentally flawed. If you like going fast in a straight line it won’t matter, but if you enjoy B roads etc don’t bother.

The difference between driving the Tuscan and the Ferrari, would be like going from driving a train to a space ship.

[6208]

348...

Dog leg is easy to get used to.

Short shifting from 1st to 3rd gear when its cold is not.

[cholo]

Slight thread hijack sorry, but i was wondering what people are currently paying for a clutch on a 360 F1?

Would be interested to know actual prices that people have paid over the last year or so, if anyone has had one done?

[BAMoFo]

I don't know if these guys are any good or not but they have been advertising this service on eBay for years and the price looks very good to me:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265032199065?mkcid=16&a...

[DP400]

Thank you to everyone who replied. Ive just been to see and had a short drive of a 348 spider at a dealers. The car looked great but I have to say I was not impressed with how it drove. I know its a 1994 car but it just seemed so not fast or exciting, even when compared to my old 1991 TVR. The dog leg box and lack of power steering were easy enough to get used to just as some of you guys said it would be, but I think once the cache of being behind the wheel of a Ferrari wears off Im not sure your left with much. Perhaps I need to drive another example to see if it was just that specific car that failed to impress.

Please understand I mean no offence to any 348 cars or owners, Ill keep looking at 348's and maybe a 360 in a non red / cream sepc to meet my budget, as well as TVR's.

If I need any further help from you more knowledgeable Ferrari guys I'll let you know but thanks again for your help in the meantime.

[davek_964]

DP400 said:

Thank you to everyone who replied. Ive just been to see and had a short drive of a 348 spider at a dealers. The car looked great but I have to say I was not impressed with how it drove. I know its a 1994 car but it just seemed so not fast or exciting, even when compared to my old 1991 TVR. The dog leg box and lack of power steering were easy enough to get used to just as some of you guys said it would be, but I think once the cache of being behind the wheel of a Ferrari wears off Im not sure your left with much. Perhaps I need to drive another example to see if it was just that specific car that failed to impress.

Please understand I mean no offence to any 348 cars or owners, Ill keep looking at 348's and maybe a 360 in a non red / cream sepc to meet my budget, as well as TVR's.

If I need any further help from you more knowledgeable Ferrari guys I'll let you know but thanks again for your help in the meantime.

I nearly posted this earlier in response to the "Ferrari takes a while to get under your skin" comment :

When I test drove my 348, I was a bit underwhelmed. I did agree to buy it after the test drive (from WalkerSport - I had to drive several hundred miles to get there), but on the way home I wasn't convinced. I actually stopped at a service station and called Tim / Walkersport to say I really wasn't sure it was a good idea and I was having doubts.

He was fine with it and we had a good chat, but once I'd slept on it I decided to give it a try.

I did actually love it in the end. Mine did need new tyres, but it was fun - which is obviously important. They are obviously not quick by todays standards, but on a twisty road they are a great thing to drive.

I don't think a different 348 would make much difference because I think that's just how they are, and I think it takes time to realise how much fun they are. But that's obviously quite a gamble when buying - and even so, they're still old and they're still not that quick.

I think you would probably find a 360 has more instant appeal. It feels a lot more modern - mine still didn't really feel old when I sold it at the start of lockdown - apart from the giant steering wheel. And it is fast enough to feel quick.

As I said earlier - I don't think there are many areas where a 348 scores over a 360 - especially given the prices now. But I do think the 348s are better than a test drive suggests (both yours and mine!).

[POORCARDEALER]

DP400 said:

Thank you to everyone who replied. Ive just been to see and had a short drive of a 348 spider at a dealers. The car looked great but I have to say I was not impressed with how it drove. I know its a 1994 car but it just seemed so not fast or exciting, even when compared to my old 1991 TVR. The dog leg box and lack of power steering were easy enough to get used to just as some of you guys said it would be, but I think once the cache of being behind the wheel of a Ferrari wears off Im not sure your left with much. Perhaps I need to drive another example to see if it was just that specific car that failed to impress.

Please understand I mean no offence to any 348 cars or owners, Ill keep looking at 348's and maybe a 360 in a non red / cream sepc to meet my budget, as well as TVR's.

If I need any further help from you more knowledgeable Ferrari guys I'll let you know but thanks again for your help in the meantime.

Steering is fantastic on a 348 , much better than the power steering on a 355.

I’ve had a lot of Ferraris and really have good memories of both my 328 and 348 ….. not the fastest of things but still great to own

[chris_gilmartin]

Around town, when cold, in traffic etc. my 348 can feel clunky, even recalcitrant. Once out of town, properly warmed up, keep it over 4,000rpm and it comes alive...it's fabulous. Doesn't like going slowly, I think. Not ideal for popping to the shops....but then that is not what it is for.

The fact that you can give it some beans and remain within speed limits, and that it's slower than a modern hot hatch whilst feeling and sounding special...these are positives for me.

Perhaps see if you can find somewhere with 348 & 355 & 360 all available, and see if they can give you some back-to-back drives?

[Fiammetta]

I found the 360 a bit wide in general traffic : parking etc - Also the unyielding AL sandwich chassis a bit bumpy thumpy and every ( franchised) service some suspension work . That became anoying . So went back to something a bit more diminutive size wise enter the 348 . I like the raw analogue feel and the ( relative to 360 ) chassis compliance AKA = flex .Lets face it these are high days / Sunday cars we are not track gods modding them to death chasing 0.01 of a sec are we ?

[jtremlett]

I find it funny when people say these cars aren't quick. They're all plenty fast enough to have fun and plenty fast enough to lose you your licence. I have a 550 Maranello with getting on for 500hp and I've never been in it and thought "if only it had another 500 horsepower". I recall travelling in company with a pair of 246 Dinos, a 275 GTB/4 and a 308, all pressing on, all having great fun and I can assure you none of us got out wishing we could have done the same drive but faster.

[4rephill]

6208 said:

348...

Dog leg is easy to get used to.

Short shifting from 1st to 3rd gear when its cold is not.

Never had an issue with the 1st to 3rd shift when cold with either my previous 348 or my current 328, it feels like second nature - Just as the dog-leg gearbox pattern does.

Both the 328 and the 348 are so low geared, and the engines are so flexible that they will carry out the 1st to 3rd gear change when cold without batting an eyelid - No shuddering, no stumbling, they just get on with it without making a fuss of any kind.