California Carbon Ceramic Breaks

[sirmarcus]

Hi all - I’m in the final stages of swapping out my V8 Vantage for a California, which would see my first ownership experience of carbon ceramics. I’ve got lots of experience of performance cars, but find myself flying blind on how to visually assess these brakes, which leaves me a little nervous given the replacement costs involved. Is the only really way to get peace of mind the get the discs off the car and weigh them?

Thanks in advance.

[Trev450]

If the car has been serviced within the network recently you could ask to see a copy of the health check. This, among other things, will give you a percentage wear indication of all 4 discs. The surface of the discs should also be shiny like steel ones, if they're not or look a little rough, then they will have had a hard life.

[sirmarcus]

That’s a good idea - thank you. The car was serviced at a main dealer last summer (Graypaul Edinburgh <1000 miles ago) so I’ll give them a call and see what they are prepared to share

[mwstewart]

Post a good quality close up pics of the discs. I can give you a guide.

[sirmarcus]

Thanks - best I’ve got here

[ANOpax]

At a guess, I’d say that the brake discs you’ve posted look like they’ve done around 45k miles. They certainly don’t look like they’re near the end of their life (Ferrari claim a c.80k mile life).

The bigger issue is the rusty bolts which could lead to rotor replacement before the discs have actually worn out.

Here’s what a set which have done 35k miles look like.

Edited by ANOpax on Sunday 15th September 20:30

[sirmarcus]

Thanks for the reply - they’ve done 40k - so they seemingly look about right for their age. Can the bolts be easily replaced if needed? Or even just rust-treated? Or would those bolts being at risk of failure mean the discs would need replacing?

[ANOpax]

You’re welcome. Glad to know that my brake-fu is vaguely on target.

There are whole threads on the rusty bolt issue. It can be quite a saga. There’s one thread in particular which shows what the other side (hub side) of the bolt looks like and it’s not pretty - backed up with some proper metallurgical expertise on the thread. It’s quite a read. Check out the maseratilife forum as well as the maser bolts are the same but supplies of the replacement bolts seem to be intermittent.

[mwstewart]

Discs look to be in line with the mileage.

I'd recommend an inspection of the the rear of the discs, on the other side of the bolts. Based on the level of corrosion I'd expect to see some cracks. If any are found then the assembly is unserviceable.

[sirmarcus]

mwstewart said:

Discs look to be in line with the mileage.

I'd recommend an inspection of the the rear of the discs, on the other side of the bolts. Based on the level of corrosion I'd expect to see some cracks. If any are found then the assembly is unserviceable.

I am having that done right now - from a video call I've just had with the guys who have the car up in the air it appears that a few of the nuts are quite rusty (including the one I had in my photo) but the bolts actually look ok - and that's the important part because it is the bolts rusting/expanding which cracks the discs. Tech is going to get me lots of good photos.

[mwstewart]

Yes, that's correct. Great to have this checked before purchase.

[sirmarcus]

Not a single bolt with the head sheered off and no bolts actually showing any real signs of rust on the front or the rear. The only rust is some of the nuts, which I’m guessing may be more trouble than it’s worth to try and start replacing.

You can get a decent view of the heads of the bolts with the car in the air and discs still on the car. They look in pretty good shape to me, which would be consistent with the general condition of the car and its service history (i.e. it has a good track record of being well looked after, as opposed to me thinking any of these have had any attention during routine servicing)

[ANOpax]

Yup, bolt heads look fine (as do the thread end of the bolts). The nuts can be cleaned up in situ but should not be removed as they are use once only parts due to the torquing spec.

Good that whoever is selling/looking after the car is willing to provide photos of the hub side of the discs for your peace of mind.

[sirmarcus]

ANOpax said:

Yup, bolt heads look fine (as do the thread end of the bolts). The nuts can be cleaned up in situ but should not be removed as they are use once only parts due to the torquing spec.

Good that whoever is selling/looking after the car is willing to provide photos of the hub side of the discs for your peace of mind.

Yes - rightly or wrongly, I buy a lot of cars based on feel for the guys I'm buying from. Equally, I've walked away from some cars I liked (including a rather nice 360) because I just didn't get a good vibe from the folks selling it. This one has been very good so far - I love the spec of the car and the guy selling has been super accommodating, even bringing the car to me from about an hour away as my work commitments meant I was struggling to get down to him to see it. getting reassurance on the CCB was the final step, so looks like I'll be joining a number of you in V8 Ferrari ownership!

[sirmarcus]

I bought it…

[Trev450]

Congratulations, looks stunning.

[NRG1976]

Congrats, looks very nice!

On the subject of bolts is there anything preventive that can be done to stop the issue of them expanding and cracking the discs?

Not sure how expensive they are but maybe the bolts should be treated as serviceable items (if it makes financial sense)?

[sirmarcus]

NRG1976 said:

Congrats, looks very nice!

On the subject of bolts is there anything preventive that can be done to stop the issue of them expanding and cracking the discs?

Not sure how expensive they are but maybe the bolts should be treated as serviceable items (if it makes financial sense)?

Thanks - I’m very pleased with the spec/condition and can’t speak highly enough of GSW Automotive (Sparkford, nr Yeovil, UK) from whom I got it.

That would seem to make a lot of sense. I don’t think Brembo see any part of the disc construction as serviceable, so someone would have to work out material and torque specs, but that shouldn’t be insurmountable for folks who know what they’re doing. I’m surprised it’s not part of a service offering by the companies who now offer the friction material refurbishing, but I guess we have to remember that these are still low-volume parts, so difficult to build a profitable service around when a lot of owners will just replace at any sign of issue.

[ANOpax]

sirmarcus said:

I bought it…

Fantastic. The car looks great and I’m sure it’ll give you a lot of pleasure.

It’s so nice to see a request for help or advice lead to a purchase.

[sirmarcus]

ANOpax said:

sirmarcus said:

I bought it…

Fantastic. The car looks great and I’m sure it’ll give you a lot of pleasure.

It’s so nice to see a request for help or advice lead to a purchase.

Yes - thank you to all those who replied - it's always reassuring to get responses on here. I've been using the Aston forum for quite a while and that has proved similarly helpful