Discussion
I saw another 488 at an independent dealership earlier today, claimed to have done around 6k miles but it looked like it had done 20k+! Creased seats, worn mats and a taxi shine to the steering wheel. It may have just had a hard 6k.
How common is clocking on 488’s? I assumed it was the older ones that got clocked? Surely the newer ones, 488 and F8’s have it tracked elsewhere?
How common is clocking on 488’s? I assumed it was the older ones that got clocked? Surely the newer ones, 488 and F8’s have it tracked elsewhere?
I knew it existed but didn’t think it was too common - surely there’s a way that a Ferrari dealer can tell, when it goes in for service etc? In most cars nowadays, it’s stored in the gearbox, axle computers, ECU’s - I’d be surprised if Ferraris didn’t have this stuff.
This particular car had a Full Ferrari SH.
This particular car had a Full Ferrari SH.
DW91 said:
I knew it existed but didn’t think it was too common - surely there’s a way that a Ferrari dealer can tell, when it goes in for service etc? In most cars nowadays, it’s stored in the gearbox, axle computers, ECU’s - I’d be surprised if Ferraris didn’t have this stuff.
This particular car had a Full Ferrari SH.
I don't know about ferrari but i believe some high end cars have some electronics attached which will alter how much the odometer increases, i.e. 50%, 25%, 0% etc so they aren't clocked back so to speak.This particular car had a Full Ferrari SH.
DW91 said:
I knew it existed but didn’t think it was too common - surely there’s a way that a Ferrari dealer can tell, when it goes in for service etc? In most cars nowadays, it’s stored in the gearbox, axle computers, ECU’s - I’d be surprised if Ferraris didn’t have this stuff.
This particular car had a Full Ferrari SH.
There was a recent thread about a clocked Rolls Royce, the info is there in multiple places IF the dealers were to go looking but they often don’t go looking. The clockers are clever and it’s a cat n mouse game so they will probably have the same software that the dealers have, they just need to know what needs to be changed.This particular car had a Full Ferrari SH.
I have researched this a lot, I was after a 488 and didn't want a high miler.
So I looked into big time.
Yes, there are mileage collection ECU's in 3 places, and they must all be equal, so you can't, "clock", them ...... great ......
....... wait ......
Mileage blockers are rife, really rife. They are expensive, but the price difference between a 10k 488 and a 60k 488 is considerable.
All wires are run on a BUS system, oversimplified and explained by a moron (me) you would need 100's and 100's of wires all over the car, so to condense them, they run different signals at different frequencies in the same wire.
What Mileage Stoppers do is, very very cleverly, they syphon off the 1 (one) signal of the mileage recorder. So everything works, including the, "range", and speedo. Only the, "signal", of mileage does NOT reach the 3 ECU's.
Perfection.
I looked at a number of 488's and I didn't trust them. I found one with a full FFSH, and then I climbed all over the car, the seat was pristine, the smell inside the car was still there. The windscreen, was unblemished, no tiny tiny chips. DO NOT be fooled by the bonnet, that clear plastic can be removed, so ignore that, but I have been on my hands and knees closely looking at the grills. Yes, I guess they can be resprayed, but if they are chipped.....
Then generally the car, is the engine dirty with 5k on the clock, are the mats worn, steering wheel shiny
I found one with 10k on the clock with FFSH and everything thing I just spoke about, I've done less than 1500, so its under 11500 at the moment and my car is pristine and its had a few owners.
I feel, "relatively", confident, that I have a real 10k one (when I bought it)
Same subject, my daughter took me to a very high end dealership in our city, I won't say the name as I don't want any backlash, she showed me a California, X years old, under 20k on clock.
OMG, OMG, OMG
The drivers seat looked like it had been sand papered, it was terrible, we asked if they would replace the section of leather, and they said, "no", we intend to paint it. Can you believe it. My daughter asked for a wipe for the windscreen, as it was peppered and we mean peppered, with tiny tiny stone chips. The bonnet was perfect and they would NOT put clear plastic finish on it unless we wanted to pay extra.
On my hands and knees again and the grill had chip on it. It as a classic example.
Pulled my daughter to one side and told her to, "run", there was no way that it has under 20k. She agreed.
The exec said, "if we change the windscreen, would you buy the car", ...... who offers that?
We were very polite and left, after pointing it all out, my daughter was fully understanding and agreed that it just did not add up.
So, you need to look at the, "car", does it, "look right", check the MOT history, are there gaps, are there, "years", with 5 miles on it.
Its got to, "look", right
The problem is real and the problem is ours to check
Good luck.
So I looked into big time.
Yes, there are mileage collection ECU's in 3 places, and they must all be equal, so you can't, "clock", them ...... great ......
....... wait ......
Mileage blockers are rife, really rife. They are expensive, but the price difference between a 10k 488 and a 60k 488 is considerable.
All wires are run on a BUS system, oversimplified and explained by a moron (me) you would need 100's and 100's of wires all over the car, so to condense them, they run different signals at different frequencies in the same wire.
What Mileage Stoppers do is, very very cleverly, they syphon off the 1 (one) signal of the mileage recorder. So everything works, including the, "range", and speedo. Only the, "signal", of mileage does NOT reach the 3 ECU's.
Perfection.
I looked at a number of 488's and I didn't trust them. I found one with a full FFSH, and then I climbed all over the car, the seat was pristine, the smell inside the car was still there. The windscreen, was unblemished, no tiny tiny chips. DO NOT be fooled by the bonnet, that clear plastic can be removed, so ignore that, but I have been on my hands and knees closely looking at the grills. Yes, I guess they can be resprayed, but if they are chipped.....
Then generally the car, is the engine dirty with 5k on the clock, are the mats worn, steering wheel shiny
I found one with 10k on the clock with FFSH and everything thing I just spoke about, I've done less than 1500, so its under 11500 at the moment and my car is pristine and its had a few owners.
I feel, "relatively", confident, that I have a real 10k one (when I bought it)
Same subject, my daughter took me to a very high end dealership in our city, I won't say the name as I don't want any backlash, she showed me a California, X years old, under 20k on clock.
OMG, OMG, OMG
The drivers seat looked like it had been sand papered, it was terrible, we asked if they would replace the section of leather, and they said, "no", we intend to paint it. Can you believe it. My daughter asked for a wipe for the windscreen, as it was peppered and we mean peppered, with tiny tiny stone chips. The bonnet was perfect and they would NOT put clear plastic finish on it unless we wanted to pay extra.
On my hands and knees again and the grill had chip on it. It as a classic example.
Pulled my daughter to one side and told her to, "run", there was no way that it has under 20k. She agreed.
The exec said, "if we change the windscreen, would you buy the car", ...... who offers that?
We were very polite and left, after pointing it all out, my daughter was fully understanding and agreed that it just did not add up.
So, you need to look at the, "car", does it, "look right", check the MOT history, are there gaps, are there, "years", with 5 miles on it.
Its got to, "look", right
The problem is real and the problem is ours to check
Good luck.
What the guy said above!
If you see a 360, 430, 458, 488 with really low miles you have to be mega sceptical, the clocking / blocking of supercars is absolutely rife.
I've had my 458 for over three and half years now, I purchased it with around 12k miles on the clock, it now has 26k on the clock as I use it and it will be one of those cars that at somepoint in its life hits 100k. My car does not have a mark or sign of wear on the interior yet I see 458's for sale with like only 5-10k miles and the interiors look badly worn, those cars more likely have 30k plus miles. BE CAREFUL!
During my ownership I've had randoms either from various whatsapp groups or social media or even in person saying stuff like you should give the car a hair cut or you can buy blockers. My response is simple, that is FRAUD, I'd never be able to sleep at night and I prefer my cars to be honest, used well cared for examples with nothing hidden, but even more so I don't plan on selling it.
I'd never pay over the odds for a sub 2k mile super car that is approaching 5, 10, 15, 20 years old, every alarm bell would just be ringing in my head. I far prefer to buy honest cars that show regular use, so maybe 2-3k or more miles per year with full service history.
Why pay over the odds for a garage queen, its probably had an hair cut or blocker on for most of its life, be careful.
Inspect seat bolters, steering wheel wear, brake disc wear, tyre wear, look at suspension bushes if you can and ALWAYS buy on condition, the latter is so important.
If you see a 360, 430, 458, 488 with really low miles you have to be mega sceptical, the clocking / blocking of supercars is absolutely rife.
I've had my 458 for over three and half years now, I purchased it with around 12k miles on the clock, it now has 26k on the clock as I use it and it will be one of those cars that at somepoint in its life hits 100k. My car does not have a mark or sign of wear on the interior yet I see 458's for sale with like only 5-10k miles and the interiors look badly worn, those cars more likely have 30k plus miles. BE CAREFUL!
During my ownership I've had randoms either from various whatsapp groups or social media or even in person saying stuff like you should give the car a hair cut or you can buy blockers. My response is simple, that is FRAUD, I'd never be able to sleep at night and I prefer my cars to be honest, used well cared for examples with nothing hidden, but even more so I don't plan on selling it.
I'd never pay over the odds for a sub 2k mile super car that is approaching 5, 10, 15, 20 years old, every alarm bell would just be ringing in my head. I far prefer to buy honest cars that show regular use, so maybe 2-3k or more miles per year with full service history.
Why pay over the odds for a garage queen, its probably had an hair cut or blocker on for most of its life, be careful.
Inspect seat bolters, steering wheel wear, brake disc wear, tyre wear, look at suspension bushes if you can and ALWAYS buy on condition, the latter is so important.
Edited by Gibbo205 on Thursday 25th August 09:27
many many ferraris are clocked and with older ones you can kind of see why
an f40 loses thousands every time you drive it if it's low mileage etc so clocking means owners can actually use their cars
people are stupid though and don't conceal it very well (buying a set of replacement seats ready for sale + steering wheel) etc
an f40 loses thousands every time you drive it if it's low mileage etc so clocking means owners can actually use their cars
people are stupid though and don't conceal it very well (buying a set of replacement seats ready for sale + steering wheel) etc
Caddyshack said:
I think clocking has been rife for years on Ferraris and many other valuable cars.
Funny how many 355s for sale, even now, have done 30,000 miles.I once had to take the dash apart on mine to troubleshoot a non-functional bulb. Two screws, one either side of the steering column, and it lifts out. And then the speedo cable can be unplugged.
I thought I was a mug for then putting 3500 miles on it driving it to Italy and back a few weeks later. But at least I've got a clear conscience
I can't even tell you what the mileage is on my Stradale without going to look. It doesn't matter.Edited by tomtom on Thursday 25th August 17:52
tomtom said:
Caddyshack said:
I think clocking has been rife for years on Ferraris and many other valuable cars.
Funny how many 355s for sale, even now, have done 30,000 miles.I once had to take the dash apart on mine to troubleshoot a non-functional bulb. Two screws, one either side of the steering column, and it lifts out. And then the speedo cable can be unplugged.
I thought I was a mug for then putting 3500 miles on it driving it to Italy and back a few weeks later. But at least I've got a clear conscience
I can't even tell you what the mileage is on my Stradale without going to look. It doesn't matter.Edited by tomtom on Thursday 25th August 17:52
A friend recently sent me a pic of his old GT3 for sale, it had less miles than when he had it about 8 yrs before and we used it on a lot of track days.
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