How would you feel....?

[blueSL]

Recent press speculation has talked about McLaren being bought out in whole or in part by either Audi or BMW. Denied of course but if it were true, they clearly like to have a full to-do list. Meanwhile, over at Aston Martin, there's reliance on Mercedes for engines and electronics and smaller scale people like Morgan and Pagani (opposite end of the price spectrum) use BMW and Mercedes engines respectively.

So, how would you feel if Ferrari could no longer go it alone and sought help from one of the majors? They are already part of the same industrial group as Fiat though listed separately and they are also doing very well but with mountains to climb with the SUV and electrification. It would certainly be a sad day if Ferrari could no longer fund their own development...

[stimshady]

Yes, i saw an article this morning about Audi buying McLaren.

Ferrari are in a much better position financially though, aren't they?

[blueSL]

Yes, Ferrari are very strong but being a public company, they are accountable to shareholders who want dividends and returns of capital. Ferrari need to be careful to make sure their borrowings to fund R&D don't escalate.

It's interesting to compare what the Ferrari and Aston Martin share prices have done. Since Aston Martin's IPO in October 2018, the share price has slumpted 85%. Ferrari's in the same period has doubled. That's all good news but there's no room for complacency!!

[bordseye]

blueSL said:

Yes, Ferrari are very strong but being a public company, they are accountable to shareholders who want dividends and returns of capital. Ferrari need to be careful to make sure their borrowings to fund R&D don't escalate.

It's interesting to compare what the Ferrari and Aston Martin share prices have done. Since Aston Martin's IPO in October 2018, the share price has slumpted 85%. Ferrari's in the same period has doubled. That's all good news but there's no room for complacency!!

Maybe but both share price trends were predictable, which is why I bought Ferrari shares and not Astons. The latter has been bust 8 times I believe, and this latest strategy is even dafter than the earlier ones. A company with their slim resources cant afford F1 nor do they have the managemnt to build and run a new factory miles away from base. And then there is the messy product range. Main question is how long will Stroll put up with losing money.

[john_1983]

bordseye said:

Maybe but both share price trends were predictable, which is why I bought Ferrari shares and not Astons. The latter has been bust 8 times I believe, and this latest strategy is even dafter than the earlier ones. A company with their slim resources cant afford F1 nor do they have the managemnt to build and run a new factory miles away from base. And then there is the messy product range. Main question is how long will Stroll put up with losing money.

They're not really doing F1 though, it's effectively a sponsorship deal of the F1 team which Stroll owns separately from the main AML company.

Agree though that it may not be the best use of £20-odd million

[r o n n i e]

To answer the original question, I’d be very sad if such an established car manufacturer could not continue to stand independently.

To me it’s part of their culture that their F1 team continues to be the only manufacturer of chassis AND engine.

Hopefully Ferrari will come out of the current haze as they used to have a very clear proposition…

mid engined V8,
bad ar*e V12,
2+2,
periodic halo car

All gorgeous, highly desirable and not always easy to buy new (i.e. strong demand vs availability of new cars).

Now it’s…

some form of V6hybrid to replace when they finish producing the V8s.

V8 hybrid for sf90 and incoming SUV?

No more V12s?

No 2+2 coupes anymore :-(

Constant whatsapp, calls, emails asking me if interested.

[blueSL]

I do think the cupboard is a bit bare if you want to order a car, never mind get one delivered. The order book for the F8 and the 812 will take them well into next year and then what? The 296 had better be ready because they need more than the Roma and Portofino M. Doesn’t seem likely the Purosangue will be good to go by then. Seems to me they have a lot of catching up to do…

[bordseye]

I reckon thats far too pesimistic. The 296 engine looks like a good short term proposition to replace the V8s the cylinder count doesnt matter much, since Ferrari have made almost every configeration from 4 cylinders to 12 in V and flat without losing what causes people to buy.

As for Ferrari not being able to make their own engines, have a look at their published accounts. Unless I am misreading them their gross margin on the cars is close to 80% and they are cash rich. They are a money machine, being able to charge way more than Porker for a car that likely costs a similar amount to make. The power of the brand I guess.

To my mind both Ferrari and all other supercar makers face twin threats - forced conversion to all electric, and increased ridiculousness of top speeds and horsepower that cannot be used . I dont see a long term future for supercars per se.