PPF issues on 458
Discussion
Hello
I have an invoice for full front PPF which was applied at a main dealer (although contracted out) about six years ago on a recently purchased 458, and I enquired about having it removed, was told they can do it, but the lacquer and paint may come off, and the risk lies with me!!! This was a conversation I had this morning.
This is a quite a worry, and if true, what is the point in putting PPF on to "protect paint", if you can never take it off?!
What should I do?
I want it off because I don't like it, I want to enjoy the paintwork - not some plastic wrapped over it. Given the risks with taking it off, to me it seems it is even more urgent to resolve, and remove it off ASAP.
Thanks
I have an invoice for full front PPF which was applied at a main dealer (although contracted out) about six years ago on a recently purchased 458, and I enquired about having it removed, was told they can do it, but the lacquer and paint may come off, and the risk lies with me!!! This was a conversation I had this morning.
This is a quite a worry, and if true, what is the point in putting PPF on to "protect paint", if you can never take it off?!
What should I do?
I want it off because I don't like it, I want to enjoy the paintwork - not some plastic wrapped over it. Given the risks with taking it off, to me it seems it is even more urgent to resolve, and remove it off ASAP.
Thanks
Edited by kitchensink on Thursday 20th May 11:24
Edited by kitchensink on Thursday 20th May 11:30
Hello, I've had all my cars PPF, they have all been done with Xpel and you get a guarantee with them, so in the unlikely event the paint is damaged when you remove it, it will be covered under there warranty.
I'm sure you will be fine, but I do understand your concern and they need to get clarity from the original fitter, who should be held responsible if anything happens.
I'm sure you will be fine, but I do understand your concern and they need to get clarity from the original fitter, who should be held responsible if anything happens.
Thanks for the reply.
As I said it is on an invoice from a Ferrari dealer (although states: Sub Contract), but they straight away told me about the risks, so clearly they are not willing to stand by the work. And it was done a few years ago, when I didn't own the car.
I have been told PPFs are warrantied for 10 years. Not really sure who my PPF would be warrantied by?
As I said it is on an invoice from a Ferrari dealer (although states: Sub Contract), but they straight away told me about the risks, so clearly they are not willing to stand by the work. And it was done a few years ago, when I didn't own the car.
I have been told PPFs are warrantied for 10 years. Not really sure who my PPF would be warrantied by?
With wraps (which PPF basically are) don't they advise that it should not be left on the car for too long? 3M only warranty their wrap material to be removable within 3 years.
I had a full car wrap on a daily driver for over 7 years, and when it was taken off it only removed some clearcoat/paint from a part of the car that was aftermarket anyway, the rest of the car was unaffected.
If your car has had prior smart repairs or whatever I could see removing the PPF taking that paint off, but you should be ok with the factory paint.
Why are you looking to remove it? Has it become tatty around the edges? Who has told you that it is warrantied for 10 years? Warrantied against what?
Notwithstanding any of the above, the situation with them not taking responsibility for it being removed is what it is really - there's not much you can do about it short of either leaving it on or taking your chances. Getting someone experienced in wrapping cars would minimise these chances.
I had a full car wrap on a daily driver for over 7 years, and when it was taken off it only removed some clearcoat/paint from a part of the car that was aftermarket anyway, the rest of the car was unaffected.
If your car has had prior smart repairs or whatever I could see removing the PPF taking that paint off, but you should be ok with the factory paint.
Why are you looking to remove it? Has it become tatty around the edges? Who has told you that it is warrantied for 10 years? Warrantied against what?
Notwithstanding any of the above, the situation with them not taking responsibility for it being removed is what it is really - there's not much you can do about it short of either leaving it on or taking your chances. Getting someone experienced in wrapping cars would minimise these chances.
I think that is madness that people think it is a good idea to put this stuff on their car to protect it, and then be told it could take the paint off, if you remove it.
One day it will have to come off. It is normal to have a few stone chips here and there, these cars don't tend to be driven enough to be littered with stone chips, which would take years, and 10s of thousands of miles to look that bad anyway. "Protecting" it with something that can take your paint off if you tried to remove is beyond my understanding.
It's coming off my car, one way or another..
One day it will have to come off. It is normal to have a few stone chips here and there, these cars don't tend to be driven enough to be littered with stone chips, which would take years, and 10s of thousands of miles to look that bad anyway. "Protecting" it with something that can take your paint off if you tried to remove is beyond my understanding.
It's coming off my car, one way or another..
kitchensink said:
Thanks for the reply.
As I said it is on an invoice from a Ferrari dealer (although states: Sub Contract), but they straight away told me about the risks, so clearly they are not willing to stand by the work. And it was done a few years ago, when I didn't own the car.
I have been told PPFs are warrantied for 10 years. Not really sure who my PPF would be warrantied by?
Xpel has a 10 year warranty, and on there site it says this:As I said it is on an invoice from a Ferrari dealer (although states: Sub Contract), but they straight away told me about the risks, so clearly they are not willing to stand by the work. And it was done a few years ago, when I didn't own the car.
I have been told PPFs are warrantied for 10 years. Not really sure who my PPF would be warrantied by?
"It is highly unlikely for paint protection film to harm OEM paint. Paint systems used on modern assembly lines today produce a minimum bond strength of 16 MPa and maximum of 25 MPa between the panel and the paint depending on color, iridescence and the system used. Our film’s bond to the painted surface at normal state (immediately following installation) is .0753 MPa. Even after years of heat and sun, the bond between the film and the paint increases to only 0.17 MPa. What that means is in the absolute worst case scenario, the bond of factory paint to the panel is over 94 times stronger than the bond of our film to the paint. In the best case, the paint is 332 times stronger.
That being said, it is still recommended to have a professional remove the film in accordance with our published guidelines."
You need to speak to an expert PPF installer. But as others have said, there are a few cowboys out there.
kitchensink said:
I have no choice, will have to try and find someone that will take it off with as much care as possible.
Great start for me..
Not touching a car with PPF on it again.
PPF is great, you just need to know who has done it. Very poor on Ferrari part this, and the previous owners not keeping a record of something so important.Great start for me..
Not touching a car with PPF on it again.
I am not sure I should broadcast it on here. I bought from a specialist, but the car has full dealership service history and I have the invoice for the PPF all done at Ferrari. I phoned the same dealer this morning, and got told the paint might come off, if they tried to take it off. What a joke!
kitchensink said:
I guess I am the joke, as I have paid £150k for a car which has had plastic glued onto it.
I think you're being a bit hard on yourself there. Hundreds of thousands of cars have had this applied, mine included, and I think you've fallen foul of the dealer rather than the original company that fitted it.Some Ferrari dealers have a reputation for being, ahem, less than helpful.
Having said that, I would be inclined to consult a specialist.
Whereabouts are you based?
To be blunt - Ferrari's contract is with whoever paid them to get the PPF installed. Any liability they may or may not have is to whoever paid them to get it done. You don't have any contractual relationship with them.
If you had bought the car from a main dealer you'd probably get more consideration from them, but it probably wouldn't change the outcome. For all you know the original customer might have been made aware of the limitations of PPF and risk when removed, and chose to proceed anyway.
With the greatest of respect - why did you buy the car if you were unhappy with the PPF or concerned about how easily it would come of? This seems to me like a pre-sales enquiry, possibly even one that you could've used in negotiations.
Also I think you're being a touch melodramatic about this to be honest. In all likelihood it can be removed (by a specialist) with no fuss or damage, but they need to inform you of the risks (that are non zero) so you are informed about it. Whoever removes it won't know about the paint history of the car, and film removal can affect smart repairs, etc.
If you had bought the car from a main dealer you'd probably get more consideration from them, but it probably wouldn't change the outcome. For all you know the original customer might have been made aware of the limitations of PPF and risk when removed, and chose to proceed anyway.
With the greatest of respect - why did you buy the car if you were unhappy with the PPF or concerned about how easily it would come of? This seems to me like a pre-sales enquiry, possibly even one that you could've used in negotiations.
Also I think you're being a touch melodramatic about this to be honest. In all likelihood it can be removed (by a specialist) with no fuss or damage, but they need to inform you of the risks (that are non zero) so you are informed about it. Whoever removes it won't know about the paint history of the car, and film removal can affect smart repairs, etc.
Durzel said:
To be blunt - Ferrari's contract is with whoever paid them to get the PPF installed. Any liability they may or may not have is to whoever paid them to get it done. You don't have any contractual relationship with them.
If you had bought the car from a main dealer you'd probably get more consideration from them, but it probably wouldn't change the outcome. For all you know the original customer might have been made aware of the limitations of PPF and risk when removed, and chose to proceed anyway.
With the greatest of respect - why did you buy the car if you were unhappy with the PPF or concerned about how easily it would come of? This seems to me like a pre-sales enquiry, possibly even one that you could've used in negotiations.
Also I think you're being a touch melodramatic about this to be honest. In all likelihood it can be removed (by a specialist) with no fuss or damage, but they need to inform you of the risks (that are non zero) so you are informed about it. Whoever removes it won't know about the paint history of the car, and film removal can affect smart repairs, etc.
ok well argued - agree the original customer may have been made aware of limitations.If you had bought the car from a main dealer you'd probably get more consideration from them, but it probably wouldn't change the outcome. For all you know the original customer might have been made aware of the limitations of PPF and risk when removed, and chose to proceed anyway.
With the greatest of respect - why did you buy the car if you were unhappy with the PPF or concerned about how easily it would come of? This seems to me like a pre-sales enquiry, possibly even one that you could've used in negotiations.
Also I think you're being a touch melodramatic about this to be honest. In all likelihood it can be removed (by a specialist) with no fuss or damage, but they need to inform you of the risks (that are non zero) so you are informed about it. Whoever removes it won't know about the paint history of the car, and film removal can affect smart repairs, etc.
To be honest, I had to have the car in the end. The PPF negotiation wasn't one - as I have found out, no one wants to take responsibility for it.
I just spoke to my trusted paint guy, and he told me that everyone you ask to remove it will say the same thing (him included). He said to do it on a warm/sunny day to get it warm, or he can put it in the oven to get it warm. Also that there is a chance any previous poor repairs may pull some paint.
Edited by kitchensink on Thursday 20th May 17:14
Do it on a warm sunny day???? Seriously?
I had one of the PPF sections replaced on my roof, and they used a heat gun of some sort (not a full on heat gun obviously) to get the old panel off.
If your guy is simply going to wait for a warm day and then pull it off..... Your worst fears are likely to come true!
I had one of the PPF sections replaced on my roof, and they used a heat gun of some sort (not a full on heat gun obviously) to get the old panel off.
If your guy is simply going to wait for a warm day and then pull it off..... Your worst fears are likely to come true!
Its not easy to convey the whole conversation on here, but I trust him, and the point he was making was that you need to do it with some heat, and it should come off fairly easily.
It actually makes sense, a gun focused on a particular spot (as you have a described) won't exactly spread the heat evenly will it?!
What I do know is, this is the first and last time I will deal with PPF.
It actually makes sense, a gun focused on a particular spot (as you have a described) won't exactly spread the heat evenly will it?!
What I do know is, this is the first and last time I will deal with PPF.
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