Speciale vs. Pista : which should I buy ?
Discussion
Seem to have an unresolved itch for either a 458 Speciale or a Pista and would live to hear real world views of people who have spent quality time in both.
I’ve never had a Ferrari, always had Porsches; the cars I’ve owned / still own and love are things like 2.7 RS / 964RS / 997.2 GT3RS / 991.2 Manual GT3 / 718 Soyder - as you can see a big theme towards manual cars. I’ve also had a PDK 991.1 RS which in truth I found amazing on track but a bit dull on the road as it only really came alive at crazy speeds that I thought irresponsible. I’m slightly worried that the Ferrari box will mean it has the same issue as the PDK RS as a road car - maybe the shorter gearing will help - however I never saw the need to change gear manually in the RS as the car did it better than me. So even through this is a risk, I keep coming back to them for some reason.
I will predominantly use as a car for a dawn weekend blast or a tour, but not really as a track car (occasional use maybe)
Any thoughts most welcome. Thanks
I’ve never had a Ferrari, always had Porsches; the cars I’ve owned / still own and love are things like 2.7 RS / 964RS / 997.2 GT3RS / 991.2 Manual GT3 / 718 Soyder - as you can see a big theme towards manual cars. I’ve also had a PDK 991.1 RS which in truth I found amazing on track but a bit dull on the road as it only really came alive at crazy speeds that I thought irresponsible. I’m slightly worried that the Ferrari box will mean it has the same issue as the PDK RS as a road car - maybe the shorter gearing will help - however I never saw the need to change gear manually in the RS as the car did it better than me. So even through this is a risk, I keep coming back to them for some reason.
I will predominantly use as a car for a dawn weekend blast or a tour, but not really as a track car (occasional use maybe)
Any thoughts most welcome. Thanks
Moderator edit: no wanted ads please
You really need to drive them. They're significantly different in driving experience. I own both.
Speciale:
For: Beautifully agile, that gorgeous engine, performance, looks.
Against: Build quality and finish 6/10, engine boomy around 4K on long runs, brakes can squeal, spec sensitive, sound system a joke (yes who needs it but it's still a 250K car).
Pista:
For: Seriously brutal performance (huge power gain over Speciale shows), much better built and finished, body design details superb, engine is still a gem (sounds-wise if the Speciale is 5/5 the Pista is 3.75/5), sound system decently professional.
Against: For many the Pista requires much more focus than driving the Speciale, it is very hardcore, very aggressive (in cold damp conditions not for the faint of heart), spec sensitive.
Speciale:
For: Beautifully agile, that gorgeous engine, performance, looks.
Against: Build quality and finish 6/10, engine boomy around 4K on long runs, brakes can squeal, spec sensitive, sound system a joke (yes who needs it but it's still a 250K car).
Pista:
For: Seriously brutal performance (huge power gain over Speciale shows), much better built and finished, body design details superb, engine is still a gem (sounds-wise if the Speciale is 5/5 the Pista is 3.75/5), sound system decently professional.
Against: For many the Pista requires much more focus than driving the Speciale, it is very hardcore, very aggressive (in cold damp conditions not for the faint of heart), spec sensitive.
To be honest and I think you know and agree.
This is all about initial inner feeling for a car no matter what it is and then to finalise that decision if the test driving experience is good then that's all that matters. For me the Pista is not as visually attractive and certainly too fast for the road to enjoy at 'relative' speeds.
Your money your choice - either way enjoyment will be had in different ways!!
This is all about initial inner feeling for a car no matter what it is and then to finalise that decision if the test driving experience is good then that's all that matters. For me the Pista is not as visually attractive and certainly too fast for the road to enjoy at 'relative' speeds.
Your money your choice - either way enjoyment will be had in different ways!!
Thanks everyone for the real world info - the more the better please as at the moment I obviously can’t see one in the metal at a dealer , never mind test drive them. I have to say I’m a bit torn - I drove a Speciale, last year very briefly - worst test drive ever - full on rush hour, very hurried demo. The steering felt overly light to me and lacking in feel & the car didn’t turn in as I’d expect - The car was on old (but legal) rubber & wondered if there was also something up with it as I couldn’t believe it wouldn’t be great based on everything i’d heard about them.
Agree on build quality the car I drive was not at all good - Pista looks like it’s improved in this department.
Are you all genuinely saying that a Speciale is a great feelsone road car and the Pista is rubbish on the road as to get any feel you’ve got to be caning it ? I assumed the Pista would feel great but you could just never get anywhere near its potential performance on a road.
Either way the itch is still there - the red Speciale looks lovely by the way.
Edited to add - also the cost proposition is interesting- Pista nearly the same cost as a Speciale with balance of 7 years serving & 4 year warranty - even so, the cost to own of Pista will be much greater in reality as lots of depreciation still to happen vs. this already happened on the Speciale. However, I thought the small delta in buy price makes the Pista hard to ignore .
Agree on build quality the car I drive was not at all good - Pista looks like it’s improved in this department.
Are you all genuinely saying that a Speciale is a great feelsone road car and the Pista is rubbish on the road as to get any feel you’ve got to be caning it ? I assumed the Pista would feel great but you could just never get anywhere near its potential performance on a road.
Either way the itch is still there - the red Speciale looks lovely by the way.
Edited to add - also the cost proposition is interesting- Pista nearly the same cost as a Speciale with balance of 7 years serving & 4 year warranty - even so, the cost to own of Pista will be much greater in reality as lots of depreciation still to happen vs. this already happened on the Speciale. However, I thought the small delta in buy price makes the Pista hard to ignore .
Edited by RSVP911 on Sunday 31st January 23:23
RSVP911 said:
Are you all genuinely saying that a Speciale is a great feelsone road car and the Pista is rubbish on the road as to get any feel you’ve got to be caning it ? I assumed the Pista would feel great but you could just never get anywhere near its potential performance on a road.
Sorry took me a while to reply to your mail but for the benefit of this thread, I think both are great on the road and I drive mine a little differently I find. I feel like you can get close to what feels like "maximum" (for a mortal like myself) out of the Speciale on the road, whereas going 10 tenths in the Pista on the road doesn't really feel possible, I tend to ride the waves of torque and short shift on the road. Both are great in the feelsome department. Pista is more civilised in traffic which is nice as I always have to contend with some before I reach a nice road!Edited by RSVP911 on Sunday 31st January 23:23
Happy to share some ownership experience of both cars. Like you I have spent a lot of time in various Porsche's - and generally prefer manual cars too.
I have done around 5,000 miles in my Speciale - which I can now see from the thread above used to be owned by another PHer!. All of those miles have been on the road, both in the UK and overseas. (Well specced Mr LordoftheManor - I just love the way the car looks - and no radio or nav inside either. Perfect.)
And I've done around 3,000 miles in the Pista, with a mix of road and track (Nordschleife and Anglesey so far).
Let me start with the looks - which is, of course, subjective. Personally, I prefer the simpler, cleaner lines of the Speciale. I think the Pista is still a lovely looking car, and in some respects more aggressive, but aesthetically a bit fussier.
Inside, the 488 is almost identical to the 458, but does feel slightly more solidly built.
Onto the the drivetrain. For me this is a close call. The Speciale's utterly instant throttle response is sensational. Perhaps even sharper than a GT3 engine, if such a thing can be imagined. And the sheer breadth of the rev range, from 2k to 9k rpm is intoxicating. The gearbox is fast, but I feel unnecessarily brutal at times - it's engineered in of course, but sometimes I feather the throttle to smooth out the change. It's certainly loud, and full of character, but it's not the most musical.
The Pista's gearbox is smoother, whilst still retaining some great character. The gearing - given the lower peak rpm - feels even shorter - and it does mean you interact with the gearbox a lot - which I think is a good thing. The engine is a monster. It revs with extraordinary ferocity for a turbocharged car, and that is thanks to the very clever variable torque mapping in the different gears (max torque in 7th). I think it sound great inside the cabin - it is certainly not quiet although drones less than the Speciale on the motorway.
Net, net I do prefer the NA feel and throttle response of the Speciale, but the Pista is still stunning in its own right.
On the road the Pista feels just that bit more tied down. The damping is better, the steering slightly meatier and the body control exceptional. The ride quality is amazing too. The Speciale isn't quite as good, but on the flip side feels slightly more naturally playful. On both cars the Manettino works brilliantly to give you as much freedom as you wish, and bumpy road mode works well on British B-roads.
Whilst I've not driven the Speciale on track, so cannot compare it to the Pista, I will report that the Pista is mind blowing on track. Around the Nordschleife it was enthralling - not just the speed, but its dynamic breadth and wonderful sense of feedback from the chassis and steering. I have done a couple of thousand laps at the Ring mostly in GT Porsches, and I have to say the Pista was just as much - if not more - fun. And the car hit 199mph down the Dottingher Hohe - and would have cracked 200 if not for a slower car ahead.
In summary, if I was asked to pick a winner, I would, based purely on the driving experience, probably pick the Pista. But, then again, there will never be another V8 NA engined Ferrari like the Speciale, and I don't plan to ever sell it.
Hope that helps!
I have done around 5,000 miles in my Speciale - which I can now see from the thread above used to be owned by another PHer!. All of those miles have been on the road, both in the UK and overseas. (Well specced Mr LordoftheManor - I just love the way the car looks - and no radio or nav inside either. Perfect.)
And I've done around 3,000 miles in the Pista, with a mix of road and track (Nordschleife and Anglesey so far).
Let me start with the looks - which is, of course, subjective. Personally, I prefer the simpler, cleaner lines of the Speciale. I think the Pista is still a lovely looking car, and in some respects more aggressive, but aesthetically a bit fussier.
Inside, the 488 is almost identical to the 458, but does feel slightly more solidly built.
Onto the the drivetrain. For me this is a close call. The Speciale's utterly instant throttle response is sensational. Perhaps even sharper than a GT3 engine, if such a thing can be imagined. And the sheer breadth of the rev range, from 2k to 9k rpm is intoxicating. The gearbox is fast, but I feel unnecessarily brutal at times - it's engineered in of course, but sometimes I feather the throttle to smooth out the change. It's certainly loud, and full of character, but it's not the most musical.
The Pista's gearbox is smoother, whilst still retaining some great character. The gearing - given the lower peak rpm - feels even shorter - and it does mean you interact with the gearbox a lot - which I think is a good thing. The engine is a monster. It revs with extraordinary ferocity for a turbocharged car, and that is thanks to the very clever variable torque mapping in the different gears (max torque in 7th). I think it sound great inside the cabin - it is certainly not quiet although drones less than the Speciale on the motorway.
Net, net I do prefer the NA feel and throttle response of the Speciale, but the Pista is still stunning in its own right.
On the road the Pista feels just that bit more tied down. The damping is better, the steering slightly meatier and the body control exceptional. The ride quality is amazing too. The Speciale isn't quite as good, but on the flip side feels slightly more naturally playful. On both cars the Manettino works brilliantly to give you as much freedom as you wish, and bumpy road mode works well on British B-roads.
Whilst I've not driven the Speciale on track, so cannot compare it to the Pista, I will report that the Pista is mind blowing on track. Around the Nordschleife it was enthralling - not just the speed, but its dynamic breadth and wonderful sense of feedback from the chassis and steering. I have done a couple of thousand laps at the Ring mostly in GT Porsches, and I have to say the Pista was just as much - if not more - fun. And the car hit 199mph down the Dottingher Hohe - and would have cracked 200 if not for a slower car ahead.
In summary, if I was asked to pick a winner, I would, based purely on the driving experience, probably pick the Pista. But, then again, there will never be another V8 NA engined Ferrari like the Speciale, and I don't plan to ever sell it.
Hope that helps!
stefan1 said:
Happy to share some ownership experience of both cars. Like you I have spent a lot of time in various Porsche's - and generally prefer manual cars too.
I have done around 5,000 miles in my Speciale - which I can now see from the thread above used to be owned by another PHer!. All of those miles have been on the road, both in the UK and overseas. (Well specced Mr LordoftheManor - I just love the way the car looks - and no radio or nav inside either. Perfect.)
And I've done around 3,000 miles in the Pista, with a mix of road and track (Nordschleife and Anglesey so far).
Let me start with the looks - which is, of course, subjective. Personally, I prefer the simpler, cleaner lines of the Speciale. I think the Pista is still a lovely looking car, and in some respects more aggressive, but aesthetically a bit fussier.
Inside, the 488 is almost identical to the 458, but does feel slightly more solidly built.
Onto the the drivetrain. For me this is a close call. The Speciale's utterly instant throttle response is sensational. Perhaps even sharper than a GT3 engine, if such a thing can be imagined. And the sheer breadth of the rev range, from 2k to 9k rpm is intoxicating. The gearbox is fast, but I feel unnecessarily brutal at times - it's engineered in of course, but sometimes I feather the throttle to smooth out the change. It's certainly loud, and full of character, but it's not the most musical.
The Pista's gearbox is smoother, whilst still retaining some great character. The gearing - given the lower peak rpm - feels even shorter - and it does mean you interact with the gearbox a lot - which I think is a good thing. The engine is a monster. It revs with extraordinary ferocity for a turbocharged car, and that is thanks to the very clever variable torque mapping in the different gears (max torque in 7th). I think it sound great inside the cabin - it is certainly not quiet although drones less than the Speciale on the motorway.
Net, net I do prefer the NA feel and throttle response of the Speciale, but the Pista is still stunning in its own right.
On the road the Pista feels just that bit more tied down. The damping is better, the steering slightly meatier and the body control exceptional. The ride quality is amazing too. The Speciale isn't quite as good, but on the flip side feels slightly more naturally playful. On both cars the Manettino works brilliantly to give you as much freedom as you wish, and bumpy road mode works well on British B-roads.
Whilst I've not driven the Speciale on track, so cannot compare it to the Pista, I will report that the Pista is mind blowing on track. Around the Nordschleife it was enthralling - not just the speed, but its dynamic breadth and wonderful sense of feedback from the chassis and steering. I have done a couple of thousand laps at the Ring mostly in GT Porsches, and I have to say the Pista was just as much - if not more - fun. And the car hit 199mph down the Dottingher Hohe - and would have cracked 200 if not for a slower car ahead.
In summary, if I was asked to pick a winner, I would, based purely on the driving experience, probably pick the Pista. But, then again, there will never be another V8 NA engined Ferrari like the Speciale, and I don't plan to ever sell it.
Hope that helps!
Thanks stephan1 for a brilliant write up - really helpful. I have done around 5,000 miles in my Speciale - which I can now see from the thread above used to be owned by another PHer!. All of those miles have been on the road, both in the UK and overseas. (Well specced Mr LordoftheManor - I just love the way the car looks - and no radio or nav inside either. Perfect.)
And I've done around 3,000 miles in the Pista, with a mix of road and track (Nordschleife and Anglesey so far).
Let me start with the looks - which is, of course, subjective. Personally, I prefer the simpler, cleaner lines of the Speciale. I think the Pista is still a lovely looking car, and in some respects more aggressive, but aesthetically a bit fussier.
Inside, the 488 is almost identical to the 458, but does feel slightly more solidly built.
Onto the the drivetrain. For me this is a close call. The Speciale's utterly instant throttle response is sensational. Perhaps even sharper than a GT3 engine, if such a thing can be imagined. And the sheer breadth of the rev range, from 2k to 9k rpm is intoxicating. The gearbox is fast, but I feel unnecessarily brutal at times - it's engineered in of course, but sometimes I feather the throttle to smooth out the change. It's certainly loud, and full of character, but it's not the most musical.
The Pista's gearbox is smoother, whilst still retaining some great character. The gearing - given the lower peak rpm - feels even shorter - and it does mean you interact with the gearbox a lot - which I think is a good thing. The engine is a monster. It revs with extraordinary ferocity for a turbocharged car, and that is thanks to the very clever variable torque mapping in the different gears (max torque in 7th). I think it sound great inside the cabin - it is certainly not quiet although drones less than the Speciale on the motorway.
Net, net I do prefer the NA feel and throttle response of the Speciale, but the Pista is still stunning in its own right.
On the road the Pista feels just that bit more tied down. The damping is better, the steering slightly meatier and the body control exceptional. The ride quality is amazing too. The Speciale isn't quite as good, but on the flip side feels slightly more naturally playful. On both cars the Manettino works brilliantly to give you as much freedom as you wish, and bumpy road mode works well on British B-roads.
Whilst I've not driven the Speciale on track, so cannot compare it to the Pista, I will report that the Pista is mind blowing on track. Around the Nordschleife it was enthralling - not just the speed, but its dynamic breadth and wonderful sense of feedback from the chassis and steering. I have done a couple of thousand laps at the Ring mostly in GT Porsches, and I have to say the Pista was just as much - if not more - fun. And the car hit 199mph down the Dottingher Hohe - and would have cracked 200 if not for a slower car ahead.
In summary, if I was asked to pick a winner, I would, based purely on the driving experience, probably pick the Pista. But, then again, there will never be another V8 NA engined Ferrari like the Speciale, and I don't plan to ever sell it.
Hope that helps!
One last question - I had a 997.2 RS loved that car so much and also absolutely love my 991.2 manual GT3 - here’s the rub - as a road (not track) car I found my 991.1 GT3RS a bit dull - you had to be absolutely on it to get any real feeling from it and I’m slightly worried the Pista would feel the same ? Hoping the shorter gearing will help ?
Would love to hear your view on this as I’m guessing you’ve had / driven a 991.1 RS ?
Thanks
RSVP911 said:
Thanks stephan1 for a brilliant write up - really helpful.
One last question - I had a 997.2 RS loved that car so much and also absolutely love my 991.2 manual GT3 - here’s the rub - as a road (not track) car I found my 991.1 GT3RS a bit dull - you had to be absolutely on it to get any real feeling from it and I’m slightly worried the Pista would feel the same ? Hoping the shorter gearing will help ?
Would love to hear your view on this as I’m guessing you’ve had / driven a 991.1 RS ?
Thanks
I do know what you mean. I have also transitioned from 997 to 991 GT cars. My 991RS was, as you say, so capable that it really only came alive on track. I always loved the engine of course, but I much prefer the Touring to the RS on the road.One last question - I had a 997.2 RS loved that car so much and also absolutely love my 991.2 manual GT3 - here’s the rub - as a road (not track) car I found my 991.1 GT3RS a bit dull - you had to be absolutely on it to get any real feeling from it and I’m slightly worried the Pista would feel the same ? Hoping the shorter gearing will help ?
Would love to hear your view on this as I’m guessing you’ve had / driven a 991.1 RS ?
Thanks
In this respect, I find both 458 and 488 much more fun to drive on the road - the chassis is so much more playful. There’s loads of grip of course, but they are both so throttle adjustable - the Speciale more so than the Pista I think.
I’ve done a couple of trips in the Speciale to the Ardennes, which if you know the area has some fantastically twisty roads where one is rarely above 100 km/h. The car is so much fun on those roads, not just because of pace between corners but mostly thanks to its delicate chassis balance.
So even though there is no manual gearbox, it compensates in other ways!
stefan1 said:
RSVP911 said:
Thanks stephan1 for a brilliant write up - really helpful.
One last question - I had a 997.2 RS loved that car so much and also absolutely love my 991.2 manual GT3 - here’s the rub - as a road (not track) car I found my 991.1 GT3RS a bit dull - you had to be absolutely on it to get any real feeling from it and I’m slightly worried the Pista would feel the same ? Hoping the shorter gearing will help ?
Would love to hear your view on this as I’m guessing you’ve had / driven a 991.1 RS ?
Thanks
I do know what you mean. I have also transitioned from 997 to 991 GT cars. My 991RS was, as you say, so capable that it really only came alive on track. I always loved the engine of course, but I much prefer the Touring to the RS on the road.One last question - I had a 997.2 RS loved that car so much and also absolutely love my 991.2 manual GT3 - here’s the rub - as a road (not track) car I found my 991.1 GT3RS a bit dull - you had to be absolutely on it to get any real feeling from it and I’m slightly worried the Pista would feel the same ? Hoping the shorter gearing will help ?
Would love to hear your view on this as I’m guessing you’ve had / driven a 991.1 RS ?
Thanks
In this respect, I find both 458 and 488 much more fun to drive on the road - the chassis is so much more playful. There’s loads of grip of course, but they are both so throttle adjustable - the Speciale more so than the Pista I think.
I’ve done a couple of trips in the Speciale to the Ardennes, which if you know the area has some fantastically twisty roads where one is rarely above 100 km/h. The car is so much fun on those roads, not just because of pace between corners but mostly thanks to its delicate chassis balance.
So even though there is no manual gearbox, it compensates in other ways!
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