Future classic?
Discussion
I'm on lock down and thus, sadly, watch far too much TV. Yesterday I watched a YouTube clip of why the F430 will become a future classic and values start to rise. That was from a dealer in the USA, but here is my take on the subject:
1. It is the last but one naturally aspirated Ferrari. Though values of 458s are strong, they are out of reach for many enthusiasts. F430s can be obtained for sub £100K.
2. As the man on YouTube suggested, many people seeing the the F430 are under the impression that it is a new model, it looks modern and most are in new condition.
3. Unlike a few previous models, it is not difficult to maintain and not too expensive; for example the engine does not need to come out for belt changes. In fact as per modern cars, it has a timing chain, not a belt.
5. It is not huge, unlike later Ferrari's. A 488 will not fit in my garage due to the fact that it has electric doors which make the opening a tad narrower. I'm not even sure a 458 will fit easily.
6. Parts are still readily available.
7. It is a great drive and arguably the best sound, especially above 4000 RPM.
Can anyone add to this list?
1. It is the last but one naturally aspirated Ferrari. Though values of 458s are strong, they are out of reach for many enthusiasts. F430s can be obtained for sub £100K.
2. As the man on YouTube suggested, many people seeing the the F430 are under the impression that it is a new model, it looks modern and most are in new condition.
3. Unlike a few previous models, it is not difficult to maintain and not too expensive; for example the engine does not need to come out for belt changes. In fact as per modern cars, it has a timing chain, not a belt.
5. It is not huge, unlike later Ferrari's. A 488 will not fit in my garage due to the fact that it has electric doors which make the opening a tad narrower. I'm not even sure a 458 will fit easily.
6. Parts are still readily available.
7. It is a great drive and arguably the best sound, especially above 4000 RPM.
Can anyone add to this list?
Maybe a low mileage manual will be a classic but otherwise far too many made and the 458 is a big step up.
Sold my top spec late year mint low mileage spider in 2012 for £85k and expect its worth £100k today.
It feels old and slow by modern standards and not somewhere I would return particularly. Good car in its time
Sold my top spec late year mint low mileage spider in 2012 for £85k and expect its worth £100k today.
It feels old and slow by modern standards and not somewhere I would return particularly. Good car in its time
WilliamWaiver said:
It feels old and slow by modern standards and not somewhere I would return particularly. Good car in its time
I suppose it depends what you want from a classic. 'Old and slow' is not a bad thing, but as far as I am concerned a F430 is lightning fast, certainly over 190 MPH is more than fast enough for me. As for 'many of them', compared with say Porsche, they are few & far between. There are only 33 UK F430 Spiders for sale on Pistonheads, whereas there are almost a 1000 water cooled 911s. I agree that the 458 is a better car, but someone misses my point that they are far less affordable, particularly at present. Moreover, Gordon Murray made the point that small is better (not that a F430 is particularly small, just smaller than what came after).Just saying
Whatever, who knows? I certainly cannot predict what is going to happen in the next year, let along in 5.
Edited by dereksharpuk on Monday 17th August 13:50
Edited by dereksharpuk on Monday 17th August 13:52
The bloke from America on YouTube is wrong.....
Felt dated when I had one 7 years ago; neither Classic or modern. Possibly a manual may hold value but F1 pretty dire if I’m being honest.
Cholocolate suspension and manifolds, but agree otherwise strong/easy to maintain. Don’t remember it sounding that good? Just typical flat plane crank Ferrari; certainly no 355 aurally.
Having said all that, I quite enjoyed the car but no way would I want another. I really can’t see any case for prices to increase?
Felt dated when I had one 7 years ago; neither Classic or modern. Possibly a manual may hold value but F1 pretty dire if I’m being honest.
Cholocolate suspension and manifolds, but agree otherwise strong/easy to maintain. Don’t remember it sounding that good? Just typical flat plane crank Ferrari; certainly no 355 aurally.
Having said all that, I quite enjoyed the car but no way would I want another. I really can’t see any case for prices to increase?
i am on my second manual 430 and have been in this current one for 9 years i think.... i won't be selling it....it's plenty fast and nimble enough for me on british roads.... last manual off the line..check.....second to last N/a engine...check.....easy to maintain,great noise,incredible looks,handles like a dream,...... what's not to love?? it is ageing incredibly well.
i really want a huracan at the moment but could never have 2 weekend toys and there's no way i'd sell the 430 to buy a huracan... make of that what you will...
future classic? i would say so
i really want a huracan at the moment but could never have 2 weekend toys and there's no way i'd sell the 430 to buy a huracan... make of that what you will...
future classic? i would say so
Doofus said:
An entirely invalid non-comparison to try to prove a point which, even if you succeed, will have zero effect on the used values of F430s.
Well, whatever I write or say will have absolutely no effect on residuals, but I think that comparisons with 911s are valid as Porsches are now mass produced. To be a classic the following has to pertinent:1. A great car.
2. Limited numbers for sale.
3. To sell, the right climate is vital.
4. In my opinion, the price has to be affordable.
Whatever, I think the general consensus of opinion is that F430s (even Spiders) will not become classics anytime soon.
dereksharpuk said:
Doofus said:
An entirely invalid non-comparison to try to prove a point which, even if you succeed, will have zero effect on the used values of F430s.
Well, whatever I write or say will have absolutely no effect on residuals, but I think that comparisons with 911s are valid as Porsches are now mass produced. To be a classic the following has to pertinent:1. A great car.
2. Limited numbers for sale.
3. To sell, the right climate is vital.
4. In my opinion, the price has to be affordable.
Whatever, I think the general consensus of opinion is that F430s (even Spiders) will not become classics anytime soon.
If you actually compare F430 Spiders with Porsche 911 Convertibles from between 2006 & 2009, then there are 34 Ferraris and 38 Porsches.
Even then, it's a pointless comparison because the two cars were built in significantly different quantities and sold at significantly different prices.
dereksharpuk said:
Well, whatever I write or say will have absolutely no effect on residuals, but I think that comparisons with 911s are valid as Porsches are now mass produced. To be a classic the following has to pertinent:
1. A great car.
2. Limited numbers for sale.
3. To sell, the right climate is vital.
4. In my opinion, the price has to be affordable.
Whatever, I think the general consensus of opinion is that F430s (even Spiders) will not become classics anytime soon.
Only LHD or RHD Scuderia/16M (or a manual F430) 1. A great car.
2. Limited numbers for sale.
3. To sell, the right climate is vital.
4. In my opinion, the price has to be affordable.
Whatever, I think the general consensus of opinion is that F430s (even Spiders) will not become classics anytime soon.
But also, let's not forget that compared with the 360, the 430 has more electronic systems working away in the background, and for many that that will count against it when compared with the more analogue 360.
I'd save my money and find a really nice 360, or push the budget for a LHD Scuderia (though of you do the latter, I'd be tempted to let the man maths really run amok and buy a LHD 360 CS ....
Sorry, I've really not helped much (if at all) have I ?
I have a 458 which on paper as the last V8 NA should be something everyone wants but they made way too many of all these cars for them to really appreciate any time soon.
You'll need a Scud/Speciale anyway the regular production cars are a poor bet for doubling in value any time soon.
You'll need a Scud/Speciale anyway the regular production cars are a poor bet for doubling in value any time soon.
fridaypassion said:
I have a 458 which on paper as the last V8 NA should be something everyone wants but they made way too many of all these cars for them to really appreciate any time soon.
Not sure any cars are going to double any time soon. But it appears that 458 are commanding strong money at present, compared with 488s etc. I suspect that is due to the fact that 458 was the last NA car so will become a classic. But, as I have said, their prices at present are very strong, whereas 360/430 values are well below £100K and thus within reach of many.The 458 must be in line for a fall soon, as there’s too much of a gap to 430s below and too little to 488s above.
Having said that, the change to turbo does leave the 458 as more appealing to many than the newer car. No doubt part of the reason it’s still strong.
Looks cleaner/nicer to me as well.
Having said that, the change to turbo does leave the 458 as more appealing to many than the newer car. No doubt part of the reason it’s still strong.
Looks cleaner/nicer to me as well.
dereksharpuk said:
I'm on lock down and thus, sadly, watch far too much TV. Yesterday I watched a YouTube clip of why the F430 will become a future classic and values start to rise. That was from a dealer in the USA, but here is my take on the subject:
1. It is the last but one naturally aspirated Ferrari. Though values of 458s are strong, they are out of reach for many enthusiasts. F430s can be obtained for sub £100K.
2. As the man on YouTube suggested, many people seeing the the F430 are under the impression that it is a new model, it looks modern and most are in new condition.
3. Unlike a few previous models, it is not difficult to maintain and not too expensive; for example the engine does not need to come out for belt changes. In fact as per modern cars, it has a timing chain, not a belt.
5. It is not huge, unlike later Ferrari's. A 488 will not fit in my garage due to the fact that it has electric doors which make the opening a tad narrower. I'm not even sure a 458 will fit easily.
6. Parts are still readily available.
7. It is a great drive and arguably the best sound, especially above 4000 RPM.
Can anyone add to this list?
If the 430 becomes collectable it will have to be be a manual, I thought i had bought a manual 360 with a huge spec,Challenge wheels, factory sports seats, yellow calipers and yellow rev counter,shields, sports exhaust and more but the owner let me down last minute and decided to keep it ,so after that every 360 looked a bit plain Jane so after looking at the differences between the 430 made the 360 look a little dated , The much improved quicker smoother gear change , Enzo rear lights,revised interior and dashboard with the manettino switch,no more cam belt chances, much quicker even though the 430 doesn't sound as good as a 360.So dug a little deeper and bought a stunning low mileage F430 from Maranello's ,had to sacrifice the manual box as i bought at the top of the market and manuals at the time commanded £30k/£35k premium over the F1 if low mileage ,I think now with prices cooling the gap has narrowed and if i was buying again i would go for the manual, Haven't mastered the F1 box yet not sure if i ever will, need to use it more might help,only did 90 miles this year and that includes collecting it from Maranello's after it's annual service and taking it for a M.O.T. My advise would be 430 every time but go for a manual even if you have to live with one that has a few more miles on it,they usually drive better than some low mileage examples and if you don't do many miles in time this will catch up with itself. As a investment not so sure,just buy wise for the wright car. I prefer the curves of the 360/430 and the more involving old skool drive to the less curvy flat look of the 458 and although a superior gear box it's almost to smooth for me but i know most won't agree. 1. It is the last but one naturally aspirated Ferrari. Though values of 458s are strong, they are out of reach for many enthusiasts. F430s can be obtained for sub £100K.
2. As the man on YouTube suggested, many people seeing the the F430 are under the impression that it is a new model, it looks modern and most are in new condition.
3. Unlike a few previous models, it is not difficult to maintain and not too expensive; for example the engine does not need to come out for belt changes. In fact as per modern cars, it has a timing chain, not a belt.
5. It is not huge, unlike later Ferrari's. A 488 will not fit in my garage due to the fact that it has electric doors which make the opening a tad narrower. I'm not even sure a 458 will fit easily.
6. Parts are still readily available.
7. It is a great drive and arguably the best sound, especially above 4000 RPM.
Can anyone add to this list?
footsoldier said:
The 458 must be in line for a fall soon, as there’s too much of a gap to 430s below and too little to 488s above.
Having said that, the change to turbo does leave the 458 as more appealing to many than the newer car. No doubt part of the reason it’s still strong.
Looks cleaner/nicer to me as well.
Yeah i agree 458 is way over priced within ferrari range and even more so with the competition.Having said that, the change to turbo does leave the 458 as more appealing to many than the newer car. No doubt part of the reason it’s still strong.
Looks cleaner/nicer to me as well.
Bound to be a correction coming
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