458 Speciale vs. 991.2 manual GT3 advice please

[RSVP911]

HI please don't let anyone on the Porsche forums know that I'm here ................................ thinking of dipping my toe into the dark site - please keep this between us.

Two questions if I may ...

1. Have had a strong offer on my manual 991.2 GT3 and the only thing I think I think it might be swapping for is a Speciale - however I need to decide quickly and wondered what peoples views were who might have had both - obvious challenge is manual vs auto. It's a weekend "toy" - I have had 991RS and preferred the GT3 as it's a manual - perhaps i've answered my own question.

2. Basically I was wondering if anyone could give me an idiots guide to buying one of these ;

What would a 5-7k car cost at trade / What mark up do dealers take - Trying to understand annual depreciation
Anything that's essential option wise
What's the deal on the 7 year service pack - what does that mean

Anyone bored of theirs ?

Cheers

Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 23 June 22:28

[LamboPH]

I wouldn’t think there is any depreciation on a Speciale?

[RSVP911]

LamboPH said:

I wouldn’t think there is any depreciation on a Speciale?

well you loose dealer margin day one - I have no idea how much this is (I realise it varies) but I'm guessing £k25 ?

[Taffy66]

RSVP911 said:

well you loose dealer margin day one - I have no idea how much this is (I realise it varies) but I'm guessing £k25 ?

Best for you to PM your good friend AndrewD R as he currently owns both a Manual GT3 and 458 Speciale..I just have a humble 458 Italia and can tell you they are much more involving to drive at legal speeds compared to any Porsche..Reasons are much lower gearing, hyper reactive steering and throttle although these have been tempered on the Speciale..
There are two Rosso Corsa Speciales for sale at Dick Lovett Swindon which seem quite good value at £254K and £267K..Personally i wouldn't pay more for one as a lot are currently over priced IMO..
Ferrari main dealers aim to keep cars in stock much longer than Porsche where two years is acceptable..This is the reason they operate a very wide trade to sell spread compared to Porsche..
I have been in touch with two Ferrari dealers in the last fortnight with an interest in either upgrading to an 812 or Speciale but love my 458 way too much..I don't think i'd be as happy driving a £250K+ Ferrari around compared to my Italia but this is personal.
Another thing Ferraris feel much more special in a mystical way even compared to my RS..

[RSVP911]

Taffy66 said:

Best for you to PM your good friend AndrewD R as he currently owns both a Manual GT3 and 458 Speciale..I just have a humble 458 Italia and can tell you they are much more involving to drive at legal speeds compared to any Porsche..Reasons are much lower gearing, hyper reactive steering and throttle although these have been tempered on the Speciale..
There are two Rosso Corsa Speciales for sale at Dick Lovett Swindon which seem quite good value at £254K and £267K..Personally i wouldn't pay more for one as a lot are currently over priced IMO..
Ferrari main dealers aim to keep cars in stock much longer than Porsche where two years is acceptable..This is the reason they operate a very wide trade to sell spread compared to Porsche..
I have been in touch with two Ferrari dealers in the last fortnight with an interest in either upgrading to an 812 or Speciale but love my 458 way too much..I don't think i'd be as happy driving a £250K+ Ferrari around compared to my Italia but this is personal.
Another thing Ferraris feel much more special in a mystical way even compared to my RS..

Oh bugger - didn't take long for me to get caught on here ! Taffy, just remind me was your GT3 manual or PDK ? Very surprising to hear what you ay about them being more engaging - struggling to see how any auto can be more fun than a manual; Porka or Ferrari - I'll give Andrew a DM.

If you were guessing what do you think the dealer spread on one of these is ? PM me if you prefer. Yep well chap and remember Mum's the word

[Taffy66]

RSVP911 said:

Oh bugger - didn't take long for me to get caught on here ! Taffy, just remind me was your GT3 manual or PDK ? Very surprising to hear what you ay about them being more engaging - struggling to see how any auto can be more fun than a manual; Porka or Ferrari - I'll give Andrew a DM.

If you were guessing what do you think the dealer spread on one of these is ? PM me if you prefer. Yep well chap and remember Mum's the word

Mine was a PDK so not really helpful in your situation..However i find my new RS WP much more involving than the GT3 and as both PDK not down to the box..Spread in Ferrari dealers depend on how long they estimate they'll have the car is stock..They are more than happy to keep some cars in stock for two years in some cases..They are currently desperate for 458s but not so much 488s which would suggest a bigger spread on the latter..At a guess i'd say that 20% spread would be pretty typical unless they had a genuine buyer already lined up..

[RSVP911]

Taffy66 said:

RSVP911 said:

Oh bugger - didn't take long for me to get caught on here ! Taffy, just remind me was your GT3 manual or PDK ? Very surprising to hear what you ay about them being more engaging - struggling to see how any auto can be more fun than a manual; Porka or Ferrari - I'll give Andrew a DM.

If you were guessing what do you think the dealer spread on one of these is ? PM me if you prefer. Yep well chap and remember Mum's the word

Mine was a PDK so not really helpful in your situation..However i find my new RS WP much more involving than the GT3 and as both PDK not down to the box..Spread in Ferrari dealers depend on how long they estimate they'll have the car is stock..They are more than happy to keep some cars in stock for two years in some cases..They are currently desperate for 458s but not so much 488s which would suggest a bigger spread on the latter..At a guess i'd say that 20% spread would be pretty typical unless they had a genuine buyer already lined up..

Jesus - for a £k50 loss straight out the showroom on a £k250 Speciale then ? That’s massive are you sure ?

[Taffy66]

RSVP911 said:

Jesus - for a £k50 loss straight out the showroom on a £k250 Speciale then ? That’s massive are you sure ?

Not that much straight out of a showroom as you're talking about a car already prepped, serviced and with a full two year extended warranty already in place..However if you walk into a Ferrari dealer with a Speciale outside of warranty and unprepped i expect on a car they expect to list at £300K, sell at £290K then i'd be surprised if you get much more than £250K straight cash unless you're buying another car from them..
I know for a fact they'd be underwriting a standard 458 Italia for about £30K below retail and that's on a very much in demand Ferrari at roughly 50% of the Speciale's RRP..
Buy a Speciale and look at it as a long term car otherwise look at quite a loss if selling within a year or so.. Have you considered a nice F12 for about £160-£170K which is a magical car and as good a Ferrari to buy right now from a money POV..

[DT398]

I haven’t had a manual 991.2gt3 but I’ve had the Gen1 plus both variants of the 991RS and I now have a 458 spider. The Ferrari is way more special than any of them despite not being as sharp a drive imho.

The 991 GT cars are total bargains for what they do but they don’t have the Ferrari secret sauce imho.

The Speciale is in a different league to the GT3 (and is obviously priced accordingly) but as Taffy says, it’s probably a car you want to buy to keep as dealer margins will be large and we might also be in for a bit of a correction, so selling it after a year or two might be painful.

As an alternative, you could more or less straight swap your 991gt3 for a 458 Italia which will get you 90% of the experience. I know everyone raves about the 991 Gen2 engine but that Ferrari V8 at full chat is a thing of beauty.

I’d have an Italia over a 991gt3/RS of any persuasion all day long. 992 will be out soon, etc etc but the 458 will never be replaced or repeated by Ferrari if you see what I mean. All just imho of course!

[Taffy66]

Glad someone else feels the same as i do..It took me a whole year to find my 458 and as it turned out its an Atelier car which cost £235K+ new..Its a keeper and a great car and probably one of Ferrari's finest creations..Its very much a car you need to physically drive due to the extremely reactive steering and throttle coupled with low gearing..Its much more involving to drive at legal speeds than any Porsche with their comical high gearing..However my new RS WP is just an amazing car and another keeper but very different to my 458..The Ferrari is faster in a straight line helped by the lower gearing but you pay at the pumps where the RS is parsimonious in comparison.
As you say Ferraris have an unique mystique about them despite being ultimately less capable..One Porsche i've been in which is even more special than any Ferrari is the Carrera GT which is in a league of its own but so far beyond my pay grade..

[Stickyone]

Sorry, I don’t have much/anything to add to the Main discussion, but could I ask what an “Atelier” car is? I’ve seen this listed a few times on the option sheets of Ferrari’s.

[Taffy66]

Stickyone said:

Sorry, I don’t have much/anything to add to the Main discussion, but could I ask what an “Atelier” car is? I’ve seen this listed a few times on the option sheets of Ferrari’s.

Its a Ferrari which was specced exclusively at the Maranello factory in Italy by the original owner..Normally reserved for long term clients who spec their cars very highly..Its always recorded as an Atelier car on the car itself which usually commands a premium.

[dereksharpuk]

I cannot add much, though have owned 12 Porsches incl a GT3 and 5 Ferraris. Porsche, IMO, is now a mainstream, volume manufacturer. True, the GT3 & GT2 is neither, but IMO are tarred with the brush of all their SUVs. Porsche make hundreds of thousands of cars and are thus not exclusive anymore, Ferrari is quite the opposite, That is why I jumped ship to Ferrari. One cannot compare a Taycan or GT3 with a Pista or even a 458. Just my opinion.

Edited by dereksharpuk on Wednesday 24th June 10:34

[Stickyone]

dereksharpuk said:

I cannot add much, though have owned 12 Porsches incl a GT3 and 5 Ferraris. Porsche, IMO, is now a mainstream, volume manufacturer. True, the GT3 & GT2 is neither, but IMO are tarred with the brush of all their SUVs. Porsche make hundreds of thousands of car and are thus not exclusive anymore, Ferrari is the opposite, That is why I jumped ship to Ferrari. One cannot compare a Taycan or GT3 with a Pista or even a 458. Just my opinion.

I agree with this, which is why I went for a Ferrari (my first) instead of a Mercedes AMG GT C Roadster / Porsche 992 Targa 4 which were also in the running. I wanted something slightly more exclusive and I mainly wanted to satisfy a dream since I was a boy having Rosso 308 GTS/GTB posters on my bedroom wall in the 70s and watching too much of Magnum PI

Apologies for the diversion.... (it arrives on Friday - so I am a bit excited)

[Slippydiff]

RSVP911 said:

HI please don't let anyone on the Porsche forums know that I'm here ................................ thinking of dipping my toe into the dark site - please keep this between us.

Two questions if I may ...

1. Have had a strong offer on my manual 991.2 GT3 and the only thing I think I think it might be swapping for is a Speciale - however I need to decide quickly and wondered what peoples views were who might have had both - obvious challenge is manual vs auto. It's a weekend "toy" - I have had 991RS and preferred the GT3 as it's a manual - perhaps i've answered my own question.

2. Basically I was wondering if anyone could give me an idiots guide to buying one of these ;

What would a 5-7k car cost at trade / What mark up do dealers take - Trying to understand annual depreciation
Anything that's essential option wise
What's the deal on the 7 year service pack - what does that mean

Anyone bored of theirs ?

Cheers

Disgraceful behaviour Lord Porsche of Stuttgart.

Turncoat.

[RSVP911]

Slippydiff said:

Disgraceful behaviour Lord Porsche of Stuttgart.

Turncoat.

Bloody hell , H can’t believe you of all people have caught me on here

[RSVP911]

Lots of helpful comments, thanks

A few thoughts :

Firstly I couldn’t care less about brand cache, actually to me, this part of ownership would be a turn off & probably explains why I’ve not had one before - I’d be very embarrassed about attention it would bring; I’d tend to use it for very early morning blasts and then tuck it up again out of sight. I’m only interested in the actual product itself and ownership proposition from a technical & driver interaction perspective.

Couple of other thoughts ; as the dealer spread is huge, you’d think there would be a good market owner to owner (maybe not, due to finance requirements from some buyers) - as I say if anyone doesn’t want theirs anymore please pm me.

Also there must be really good trusted Indy’s that broker these cars more competitively ? If so, please can someone let me know who the good guys are (I know who I would and wouldn’t buy a second hand Porsche from for example)

Taffy, eally interesting to hear your thoughts on tactility and dynamics - my main worry is moving from manual to PDK (not sure what Ferrari call this) so the fact that you find your 458 really engaging is really good to hear

All thoughts welcome, as I’m a Ferrari nube

[browngt3]

Ha ha, I'm going to add to the growing list of Porsche owners lurking here!

I have recently added a classic 308GTB QV to my little collection of Porsches. Whilst we can't compare it to the 991.2GT3 in any way it does come out very well indeed compared to its contemporary - the Carrera 3.2. It has a delicacy of touch, an elegance and a charm that the old 911 simply doesn't have. If this is the case when comparing a 458 to a 991.2 GT3 then call me converted!

I'm also reevaluating the GT3. Have you considered a manual F430? Harry Metcalfe, being his usual enthusiastic self, in his recent video review, reckons it a better proposition than the Scuderia. It's also a similar performance to the GT3, similar price point and more than fast enough for our roads. He makes a compelling case. However, if you want to track it then I guess that changes things. In my opinion a GT3 is a better bet for this as to track a Speciale must be outrageously expensive not to mention the psychological risk of tracking a car literally twice as valuable.

[browngt3]

Stickyone said:

I agree with this, which is why I went for a Ferrari (my first) instead of a Mercedes AMG GT C Roadster / Porsche 992 Targa 4 which were also in the running. I wanted something slightly more exclusive and I mainly wanted to satisfy a dream since I was a boy having Rosso 308 GTS/GTB posters on my bedroom wall in the 70s and watching too much of Magnum PI

Apologies for the diversion.... (it arrives on Friday - so I am a bit excited)

Congratulations! Which Ferrari are you getting? Would like to hear your impressions when you get it.

[DT398]

It’s a lot of money to be tied up for early morning drives avoiding attention imho, but we are not all the same and it’s pretty much guaranteed you would have a silly grin on your face as you tucked it back in the garage!

Buy one in a dark colour and it’s a lot less attention grabbing than, say, a 991.2RS with its frankly preposterous rear wing (sorry Taffy!)

There are one or two decent independents and DK Engineering spring to mind and they have one at the moment for reasonable money but a 2 year main dealer warranty is probably worth having on these cars. You probably wouldn’t go wrong with the likes of Tom Hartley or Romans either but again the warranty thing is out there. Bramley is another one but they seem to be similar pricing to main dealers. If it’s SOR you may be able to inherit the existing warranty, not sure.

It’s horses for courses in the end and I’ve been through a similar thought process but not done anything about it yet. If you can avoid agonising over whether it’s “worth it” or not, there’s no doubt it would be an epic car to own. I know a few that have them and they are all smitten.