458 Values - again
Discussion
Not seen any update on valuations for a while. Where do you think 458 values are going in 2020? They seem to have drifted down in 2019, whereas 488s have plummeted. Does anyone see the gap between 430 and 458 narrowing in 2020? I'm keeping my 430 Spider for the time being in anticipation
dereksharpuk said:
Not seen any update on valuations for a while. Where do you think 458 values are going in 2020? They seem to have drifted down in 2019, whereas 488s have plummeted. Does anyone see the gap between 430 and 458 narrowing in 2020? I'm keeping my 430 Spider for the time being in anticipation
I'm biased as i own a 458 however here's my opinion..I believe that a very well specced 458 (Carbon race seats and other bits of CF etc) will hold on to their values in 2020 unlike 488s which will continue to fall..I had a letter from my Ferrari dealer a few weeks ago virtually begging me to sell my 458 to them for very strong money.458s will be a very much in demand in the future unlike most other contemporary Ferraris..F12 is another future classic for similar reasons IMO.
Taffy66 said:
I'm biased as i own a 458 however here's my opinion..I believe that a very well specced 458 (Carbon race seats and other bits of CF etc) will hold on to their values in 2020 unlike 488s which will continue to fall..I had a letter from my Ferrari dealer a few weeks ago virtually begging me to sell my 458 to them for very strong money.
458s will be a very much in demand in the future unlike most other contemporary Ferraris..F12 is another future classic for similar reasons IMO.
This.458s will be a very much in demand in the future unlike most other contemporary Ferraris..F12 is another future classic for similar reasons IMO.
458 specs will fall a little bit too but not as much as the pista
Taffy66 said:
I'm biased as i own a 458 however here's my opinion..I believe that a very well specced 458 (Carbon race seats and other bits of CF etc) will hold on to their values in 2020 unlike 488s which will continue to fall..I had a letter from my Ferrari dealer a few weeks ago virtually begging me to sell my 458 to them for very strong money.
458s will be a very much in demand in the future unlike most other contemporary Ferraris..F12 is another future classic for similar reasons IMO.
As I also got a similar letter and upon following up the money offered was very strong as they had a potential customer for my car, which based on their offer and their typical 20k markup means they would of being trying to sell mine for 160k.458s will be a very much in demand in the future unlike most other contemporary Ferraris..F12 is another future classic for similar reasons IMO.
I think 458's will get segmented into three types:
High mileage (50k plus) but otherwise good spec in red or yellow: Will hover around 125k area.
High mileage (50k plus) but poor spec, basic wheel no carbon, basic seats: Will hover around 100k area.
Average mileage (25k) excellent spec, carbon, buckets etc: Hover around 150k area.
Garage queens with under 2k miles, 175-200k.
As with all things the value of Speciale impacts value of regular high specification cars, if Speciale is worth say 500k in 2022, then expect good spec 458's to increase in value by around 20-30k is fair to say.
The 458 is Ferrari's last NA mid-engine V8, last Ferrari designed by Pininfarina and the last Ferrari with hydraulic steering.
Also having driven 355, 360, 430, 458, 488 and other newer stuff from Ferrari the 458 is like the cross over car, pre 458 they are a bit raw and more a weekend only car but very much Ferrari and extremely special, but after the 458 you can tell mass production was the goal, so many cars sharing same engine and just a feeling of being like too many other modern super cars. 458 sits bang in the middle, its raw but it can be a daily and you know your in a Ferrari as that engine is so so special and was only ever put in the 458's!
Once the V10 NA from Lamborghini and Audi is no more I feel values of good spec 458, Speciale, Hurracan Performante and some of the other other V10 Lambo's will move up in values again, plus in 2019 we had Brexit worries, such times are nearly behind us.
I'd say now is the time to buy a 458 if you can find a deal, because I believe the good cars won't go down any more and may indeed start to edge upwards.
Edited by Gibbo205 on Friday 27th December 11:28
Gibbo205 said:
The 458 is Ferrari's last NA mid-engine V8, last Ferrari designed by Pininfarina and the last Ferrari with hydraulic steering.
The 488 has hydraulic steering and the Speciale was the last V8 model to be NA.Edited by Gibbo205 on Friday 27th December 11:28
I just can’t see any real reason the 458 wont continue to depreciate, all apart from the ultra low mileage examples. Simply too many of them out there (Same with the Speciale come to think of it). Time will tell of course, but there are too many other (supercars) cars out there for prices to be maintained and I personally think this ’last of the n/a engines’ will soon lose its importance to future buyers.
garystoybox said:
The 488 has hydraulic steering and the Speciale was the last V8 model to be NA.
I just can’t see any real reason the 458 wont continue to depreciate, all apart from the ultra low mileage examples. Simply too many of them out there (Same with the Speciale come to think of it). Time will tell of course, but there are too many other (supercars) cars out there for prices to be maintained and I personally think this ’last of the n/a engines’ will soon lose its importance to future buyers.
Yep time will tell for sure, at least were not in same boat as Mclaren.I just can’t see any real reason the 458 wont continue to depreciate, all apart from the ultra low mileage examples. Simply too many of them out there (Same with the Speciale come to think of it). Time will tell of course, but there are too many other (supercars) cars out there for prices to be maintained and I personally think this ’last of the n/a engines’ will soon lose its importance to future buyers.
488's are coming down faster depreciation curve wise compared to 458's though and having driven both to me the 458 was the more special though less capable car, but as I've grown older I found the slower less capable car more enjoyable and more special to me.
According to a main dealer I know well, 458s and 488s now the same price. I don’t see a big change (up or down) in 458 prices but I think the F8 Tributo will continue to kill 488 values. There will continue to be reasons to buy a 458 versus later models, mainly the naturally aspirated engine, but I can see no reason, other than price, to buy a 488 versus an F8.
Gibbo205 said:
Also having driven 355, 360, 430, 458, 488 and other newer stuff from Ferrari the 458 is like the cross over car, pre 458 they are a bit raw and more a weekend only car but very much Ferrari and extremely special, but after the 458 you can tell mass production was the goal, so many cars sharing same engine and just a feeling of being like too many other modern super cars. 458 sits bang in the middle, its raw but it can be a daily and you know your in a Ferrari as that engine is so so special and was only ever put in the 458's!
This made me smile, over the course of 20 years I used 348, 355, 360, manual 430, Carb 308, 575 and 550 all as dailies with no issue. None were any more grief to run on a daily basis than a 911, albeit with higher maintenance costs, the cars were inherently solid and reliable.When used regularly they were great, when sat still gremlins started to creep in. I later bought a 458 but just didn't gel with it as it didn't feel special in comparison to the older cars, though admittedly it is better than a 488. Of the newer cars the only one I think will be a real long term classic is the F12 that combines the best elements of old and new and with a different level of tactile interior finish. The F12 also shrunk in width compared to the porkiness of the 599 which in the real world really makes it a much more usable car and it does feel very special by modern car standards.
Good though the 458 is there are simply too many around for it ever to be rare, I'm not convinced the market for these cars has grown exponentially in parallel to the vast increase in numbers manufactured, not to mention all the McLarens, Lambos and GT Porsches.
As recently as 15 years ago there were literally only a handful of GT3's or Challenge Stradales, even when new you could see those were destined to be collectible due to numbers. Even the lowest miles, highest spec 458 is still a mass produced car by supercar standards.
Gibbo205 said:
As I also got a similar letter and upon following up the money offered was very strong as they had a potential customer for my car, which based on their offer and their typical 20k markup means they would of being trying to sell mine for 160k.
I think 458's will get segmented into three types:
High mileage (50k plus) but otherwise good spec in red or yellow: Will hover around 125k area.
High mileage (50k plus) but poor spec, basic wheel no carbon, basic seats: Will hover around 100k area.
Average mileage (25k) excellent spec, carbon, buckets etc: Hover around 150k area.
Garage queens with under 2k miles, 175-200k.
As with all things the value of Speciale impacts value of regular high specification cars, if Speciale is worth say 500k in 2022, then expect good spec 458's to increase in value by around 20-30k is fair to say.
The 458 is Ferrari's last NA mid-engine V8, last Ferrari designed by Pininfarina and the last Ferrari with hydraulic steering.
Also having driven 355, 360, 430, 458, 488 and other newer stuff from Ferrari the 458 is like the cross over car, pre 458 they are a bit raw and more a weekend only car but very much Ferrari and extremely special, but after the 458 you can tell mass production was the goal, so many cars sharing same engine and just a feeling of being like too many other modern super cars. 458 sits bang in the middle, its raw but it can be a daily and you know your in a Ferrari as that engine is so so special and was only ever put in the 458's!
Once the V10 NA from Lamborghini and Audi is no more I feel values of good spec 458, Speciale, Hurracan Performante and some of the other other V10 Lambo's will move up in values again, plus in 2019 we had Brexit worries, such times are nearly behind us.
I'd say now is the time to buy a 458 if you can find a deal, because I believe the good cars won't go down any more and may indeed start to edge upwards.
£500k speciale in 2022...? Why would that be? No evidence of anything going up in value at the moment, or foreseeable future, I think 458's will get segmented into three types:
High mileage (50k plus) but otherwise good spec in red or yellow: Will hover around 125k area.
High mileage (50k plus) but poor spec, basic wheel no carbon, basic seats: Will hover around 100k area.
Average mileage (25k) excellent spec, carbon, buckets etc: Hover around 150k area.
Garage queens with under 2k miles, 175-200k.
As with all things the value of Speciale impacts value of regular high specification cars, if Speciale is worth say 500k in 2022, then expect good spec 458's to increase in value by around 20-30k is fair to say.
The 458 is Ferrari's last NA mid-engine V8, last Ferrari designed by Pininfarina and the last Ferrari with hydraulic steering.
Also having driven 355, 360, 430, 458, 488 and other newer stuff from Ferrari the 458 is like the cross over car, pre 458 they are a bit raw and more a weekend only car but very much Ferrari and extremely special, but after the 458 you can tell mass production was the goal, so many cars sharing same engine and just a feeling of being like too many other modern super cars. 458 sits bang in the middle, its raw but it can be a daily and you know your in a Ferrari as that engine is so so special and was only ever put in the 458's!
Once the V10 NA from Lamborghini and Audi is no more I feel values of good spec 458, Speciale, Hurracan Performante and some of the other other V10 Lambo's will move up in values again, plus in 2019 we had Brexit worries, such times are nearly behind us.
I'd say now is the time to buy a 458 if you can find a deal, because I believe the good cars won't go down any more and may indeed start to edge upwards.
Edited by Gibbo205 on Friday 27th December 11:28
Without being deliberately negative, I think your £175-200k will be closer to the mark for a Speciale, not a ‘normal’ one.
Do agree that 458 is better bet than 488 and Speciale > Pista.
footsoldier said:
£500k speciale in 2022...? Why would that be? No evidence of anything going up in value at the moment, or foreseeable future,
Without being deliberately negative, I think your £175-200k will be closer to the mark for a Speciale, not a ‘normal’ one.
Do agree that 458 is better bet than 488 and Speciale > Pista.
Hmmm, define "better". To me, "better" is in the eye of the beholder, much like beauty. Personally, I think the 458 is "better" than the 488 as I prefer the look and sound of the older car over the newer one, however I have a very close friend who is the complete opposite and is a massive fan of the 488. Tis difference of opinion is the wonder of our world (and PH) - can you imagine how boring it would be if everyone thought the same ?? Without being deliberately negative, I think your £175-200k will be closer to the mark for a Speciale, not a ‘normal’ one.
Do agree that 458 is better bet than 488 and Speciale > Pista.
All you have to do is look at the "Top 3 Ferraris" post to see how varied different people's views are on "best", although pretty much all of the best ones in the list so far are the older (sorry, classic) ones - there isn't a single vote for a 458 or 488 or F8 !
footsoldier said:
£500k speciale in 2022...? Why would that be? No evidence of anything going up in value at the moment, or foreseeable future,
Without being deliberately negative, I think your £175-200k will be closer to the mark for a Speciale, not a ‘normal’ one.
Do agree that 458 is better bet than 488 and Speciale > Pista.
Totally agree about there being no evidence of anything going up ! It’s a fairly simple equation to me....manufacturers have increased production by a fair % in the last few years and whilst cars were solid in terms of residuals people were happy to buy more cars as the “cost” apart from having money tied up was minimal. I think that’s over. 458 is a great car but it’s unlikely to be an island of rock solid residuals. If the 488 continues to depreciate because of the F8 that will have an impact on 458 values too...maybe not to the same extent but there will be people that will want the newer car.Without being deliberately negative, I think your £175-200k will be closer to the mark for a Speciale, not a ‘normal’ one.
Do agree that 458 is better bet than 488 and Speciale > Pista.
Path of least resistance is for the market to go lower in my opinion.
458 prices have nowhere to go with compression on 488 prices imo. N/A aside the 488 is the better car in terms of technology, power, etc. F8 will add even more pressure.
458 is a great car and imo the difference between it and the F430, interior wise at least, is night and day. But, it is also a 10 year old platform, and arguably not an enduring classic in the same way as even the F430 and particularly 355 are. There’s too many of them relatively.
I think one would do well to get through 2020 with prices only softening by ~£15k, but more is likely imo.
ps. £500k Speciales in 2022 is cloud cuckoo land. Also 50k mileage is way beyond what most typical Ferrari owners would consider “high”, but more power to you if you run one like a regular car.
458 is a great car and imo the difference between it and the F430, interior wise at least, is night and day. But, it is also a 10 year old platform, and arguably not an enduring classic in the same way as even the F430 and particularly 355 are. There’s too many of them relatively.
I think one would do well to get through 2020 with prices only softening by ~£15k, but more is likely imo.
ps. £500k Speciales in 2022 is cloud cuckoo land. Also 50k mileage is way beyond what most typical Ferrari owners would consider “high”, but more power to you if you run one like a regular car.
Edited by Durzel on Monday 30th December 06:28
I’ve bid on a 458 Italia and one spider within the last 6 weeks. Admittedly neither vendor (dealer) took my offer, nor worked hard to close a deal. Both cars now disappeared from their inventory. One dealer seems to brag about every deal they do and the car I bid on didn’t make that list/instagram post. I’m a buyer but patient and confident I’ll pick up a car within first quarter of 2020 at less than I’ve bid within last 6 weeks.
I’d also buy a speciale but only around original list circa £220k. Not interested in silly options the more basic spec the better for me. There are 31 listed on autotrader now and I’m tracking these cars. A lot of them have been reduced, some by 5-10% and they have still not run out of the door.
Anyone who wants to buy will buy now if it’s right spec and price. Doesn’t bode well if any vendor is waiting until to offload in hope of a slight premium.
Simply put, it’s a buyers market, same cars advertised day in day out and not selling. Patience is a virtue for desired spec etc.
Appreciation....these models won’t be.
I’d also buy a speciale but only around original list circa £220k. Not interested in silly options the more basic spec the better for me. There are 31 listed on autotrader now and I’m tracking these cars. A lot of them have been reduced, some by 5-10% and they have still not run out of the door.
Anyone who wants to buy will buy now if it’s right spec and price. Doesn’t bode well if any vendor is waiting until to offload in hope of a slight premium.
Simply put, it’s a buyers market, same cars advertised day in day out and not selling. Patience is a virtue for desired spec etc.
Appreciation....these models won’t be.
I sold mine just before the summer of 2019 and bloody glad I did as my car would have been worth £25k less than I sold it for today. Prices have dropped significantly. I held on to it much longer than any other car I have owned because it was a fantastic bit of kit and was pretty much depreciation proof and only sold it due to re-building my home and nowhere to park it during works.
Things have certainly changed price wise for both the 488 and the 458 but once the F8s start appearing in 2020 prices for the 488 will drop further and will push down the 458 too.
The interesting thing is that I have recently been on many Ferrari events (guess they are tempting me in to another since I sold mine!) and I have not met a single owner that has moved from a 458 to a 488 saying that they regretted doing so. They all say the 488 is the better car.
It's only on youtube and forums that people say the 458 is the better car but from I hear from real owners is much more to the contrary!
Factor in that many of the 488s have the remainder of the service plans left and longer warranties i think they make more sense.
I'll most likely get a 488 spider next summer.
The 458 is a great car - buy it and enjoy it and if you are worried about depreciation I guess it's not the right time to buy any supercar right now.
Things have certainly changed price wise for both the 488 and the 458 but once the F8s start appearing in 2020 prices for the 488 will drop further and will push down the 458 too.
The interesting thing is that I have recently been on many Ferrari events (guess they are tempting me in to another since I sold mine!) and I have not met a single owner that has moved from a 458 to a 488 saying that they regretted doing so. They all say the 488 is the better car.
It's only on youtube and forums that people say the 458 is the better car but from I hear from real owners is much more to the contrary!
Factor in that many of the 488s have the remainder of the service plans left and longer warranties i think they make more sense.
I'll most likely get a 488 spider next summer.
The 458 is a great car - buy it and enjoy it and if you are worried about depreciation I guess it's not the right time to buy any supercar right now.
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