360 Manual vs 430 Manual
Discussion
I'm on the search for a convertible, but looking at 360 and 430 Spider prices, the premium for a manual car seems high.
There was a blue 430 spider manual at Clinkards that was up for £99k but that disappeared fairly quickly. The other cars on the market don't seem to be shifting.
Are the advertised values realistic?
Has anyone pulled the trigger on one recently?
Would you pay the premium for a 430 Manual over a 360 Manual?
There was a blue 430 spider manual at Clinkards that was up for £99k but that disappeared fairly quickly. The other cars on the market don't seem to be shifting.
Are the advertised values realistic?
Has anyone pulled the trigger on one recently?
Would you pay the premium for a 430 Manual over a 360 Manual?
If you buy into the whole manual thing and think it will stays its course ( which I personally don't ) logic would say get the best and last of a kind in the F430 however todays prices look crazy money for what it is IMHO and many are advertised just trying to catch the late joiners to the bandwagon.
Some of these cars up at £130k were £75k not that long ago so they have had a meteoric rise. Not suggesting they will have a meteoric fall but it is possible when the fad has died off and the new generation of buyers don't even know what a manual is
I think they are grossly overpriced and prefer my F355 GTS manual which is more in tune with cars performance and era
Some of these cars up at £130k were £75k not that long ago so they have had a meteoric rise. Not suggesting they will have a meteoric fall but it is possible when the fad has died off and the new generation of buyers don't even know what a manual is
I think they are grossly overpriced and prefer my F355 GTS manual which is more in tune with cars performance and era
From an enjoyment perspective I’d rather buy an F1 over Manual as I prefer them these days so it’s an easy decision for me.
If it’s a 360 v 430 choice i prefer the 430 to drive and to look at. From an investment perspective the 430 manual has got to be the best as there are so few. I would guess they will continue to climb in price, but that’s 🔮 thinking.
If it’s a 360 v 430 choice i prefer the 430 to drive and to look at. From an investment perspective the 430 manual has got to be the best as there are so few. I would guess they will continue to climb in price, but that’s 🔮 thinking.
alephnull said:
What is 'younger' these days? I'm 30 and I love my manual 360 
few my age, however, are into cars full stop, either manuals or autos.
Interesting comment and I've noticed this also. Off subject but ... when I was a teenager in the late 80's early 90's most lads I knew and quite a few of the ladies were heavily into their cars. In fact as we got closer to driving age cars and the opposite sex were all we thought about. Seeing how my eldest son is with his friends it seems the majority of them have very little interest in cars now. Health and fitness, traveling, socialising, education, property etc seem to be much more popular subjects. When I was 20 every penny went on my old 928S trying to keep it looking cool and less importantly, road worthy! Didn't even cross my mind that I should be saving for my first house. It seems a shame but I suspect a much larger majority of the next generation compared to mine think about cars as a tool rather than something to be enjoyed. few my age, however, are into cars full stop, either manuals or autos.Pioneer said:
It seems a shame but I suspect a much larger majority of the next generation compared to mine think about cars as a tool rather than something to be enjoyed.
They are missing out, there is enjoyment to be discovered in everything.Certainly in the big cities our government has done some social engineering with scammeras, parking, congestion fees etc to make running an enjoyable car less appealing than say 20 years ago.
And if you are partying properly most nights - a taxi makes much more sense.
Pioneer said:
alephnull said:
What is 'younger' these days? I'm 30 and I love my manual 360 few my age, however, are into cars full stop, either manuals or autos.
Interesting comment and I've noticed this also. Off subject but ... when I was a teenager in the late 80's early 90's most lads I knew and quite a few of the ladies were heavily into their cars. In fact as we got closer to driving age cars and the opposite sex were all we thought about. Seeing how my eldest son is with his friends it seems the majority of them have very little interest in cars now. Health and fitness, traveling, socialising, education, property etc seem to be much more popular subjects. When I was 20 every penny went on my old 928S trying to keep it looking cool and less importantly, road worthy! Didn't even cross my mind that I should be saving for my first house. It seems a shame but I suspect a much larger majority of the next generation compared to mine think about cars as a tool rather than something to be enjoyed. few my age, however, are into cars full stop, either manuals or autos.No question the 430 is superior to the 360 in every way. That’s the one to have. However the manual v F1 question is harder to answer and is pure speculation. The only reason manual is sooo much more expensive is simply down to fewer made. From an engineering perspective, the F1 is the one to have as that’s how the cars were designed. The manual option was a compromise to meet the needs of a small %tge of buyers.
If only life were so emotionless.
The manual gearbox is an engineering delight and a pleasure to engage with, regardless of how fast you're going and where you are. Sure the F1 box does what it's intended and is awesome when nailing it, but otherwise gets familiar whilst the manual adds a bit more work and thought process when you're moving on (which is fun if you like some challenge) and is fun for the act of blipping the throttle and timing your clutch control, on top of feeling the excellent change. I tried them all during a period of buying three Ferraris, and in my world the manuals just give that much more pleasure more of the time. Ferrari knew how to do manuals, no doubt, and maybe the 360 was the last where they intended to still sell some volume. A dealer once told me that the 430 works better with a manual with the engine timing slightly adjusted, but I didn't dig deeper into that topic (the prior owner had been an engineer at Sauber F1 so I assumed the guy knew what he was doing).
As to which model: the 430 is of course the 'better' car as each newer model will be: more grunt throughout the rev range, more confident handling, better traction/stability settings etc etc. The 360 isn't especially fast below 4,000 rpm and when not in sport mode sees the power getting cut in 60mph+ corners, which is really disconcerting, so you need always be in sport, which makes the dampers a bit stiff for rough roads. It still delivers though; you'd get over it. It also understeers quite heavily (or I haven't gotten used to slowing down enough in it), which is a pain. You can install the CS or 430 geo to give a similar handling feel though, which I'll do to mine along with fitting some wider front tyres). Both have quick but rather glassy feeling steering; Ferrari aren't great at power steering with true steering feel, which is a pity. I think the 360 sounds much better, with a proper scream, and I prefer the looks and the interior simplicity. 430 definitely looks supercar, but this is all personal taste anyway so enjoy what you enjoy.
The 430 was of course the last manual mid-engined v8 Ferrari so will carry a premium for it's low numbers and 'historical significance'. All values were pumped by investors a couple of years ago and have softened a bit, but there will always be people like me who will pay a bit more for a manual. The shame with Ferraris though is that the market freaks out if you actually use the car and put some miles on it, so be aware of that. Buying lowish miles and selling whilst still lower than most might be the way to play it, but it sucks to think about 'whether the miles are worth it' when the feeling calls. It's a Ferrari and deserved to be driven; you deserve to drive it!
Anyway, most of this is subjective and it really comes down to what you like. Whatever you choose, you get some stunning engineering and will have a blast. They're fabulous cars. Best go try as many as possible on the same day and choose with your heart. You can always sell it and go find the other. Then you've tried two, which is also good!
Enjoy.
The manual gearbox is an engineering delight and a pleasure to engage with, regardless of how fast you're going and where you are. Sure the F1 box does what it's intended and is awesome when nailing it, but otherwise gets familiar whilst the manual adds a bit more work and thought process when you're moving on (which is fun if you like some challenge) and is fun for the act of blipping the throttle and timing your clutch control, on top of feeling the excellent change. I tried them all during a period of buying three Ferraris, and in my world the manuals just give that much more pleasure more of the time. Ferrari knew how to do manuals, no doubt, and maybe the 360 was the last where they intended to still sell some volume. A dealer once told me that the 430 works better with a manual with the engine timing slightly adjusted, but I didn't dig deeper into that topic (the prior owner had been an engineer at Sauber F1 so I assumed the guy knew what he was doing).
As to which model: the 430 is of course the 'better' car as each newer model will be: more grunt throughout the rev range, more confident handling, better traction/stability settings etc etc. The 360 isn't especially fast below 4,000 rpm and when not in sport mode sees the power getting cut in 60mph+ corners, which is really disconcerting, so you need always be in sport, which makes the dampers a bit stiff for rough roads. It still delivers though; you'd get over it. It also understeers quite heavily (or I haven't gotten used to slowing down enough in it), which is a pain. You can install the CS or 430 geo to give a similar handling feel though, which I'll do to mine along with fitting some wider front tyres). Both have quick but rather glassy feeling steering; Ferrari aren't great at power steering with true steering feel, which is a pity. I think the 360 sounds much better, with a proper scream, and I prefer the looks and the interior simplicity. 430 definitely looks supercar, but this is all personal taste anyway so enjoy what you enjoy.
The 430 was of course the last manual mid-engined v8 Ferrari so will carry a premium for it's low numbers and 'historical significance'. All values were pumped by investors a couple of years ago and have softened a bit, but there will always be people like me who will pay a bit more for a manual. The shame with Ferraris though is that the market freaks out if you actually use the car and put some miles on it, so be aware of that. Buying lowish miles and selling whilst still lower than most might be the way to play it, but it sucks to think about 'whether the miles are worth it' when the feeling calls. It's a Ferrari and deserved to be driven; you deserve to drive it!
Anyway, most of this is subjective and it really comes down to what you like. Whatever you choose, you get some stunning engineering and will have a blast. They're fabulous cars. Best go try as many as possible on the same day and choose with your heart. You can always sell it and go find the other. Then you've tried two, which is also good!
Enjoy.
Nano2nd said:
subirg said:
No question the 430 is superior to the 360 in every way.
i dunno, that 5 valves per cylinder does mean the 360 sounds pretty epicMost Audi petrols have - or did have - five valves per cylinder but VAG chose to open the three inlets together, hence no signature sound other than that expected from the cylinder configuration. Five valves vs four in an otherwise identical engine doesn't actually make any perceptible difference to sound
silber said:
If only life were so emotionless.
Both have quick but rather glassy feeling steering; Ferrari aren't great at power steering with true steering feel, which is a pity.
I agree this is a real shame.Both have quick but rather glassy feeling steering; Ferrari aren't great at power steering with true steering feel, which is a pity.
Ferrari always produced excellent steering feel pre-PAS, especially once you're into 3 figure speeds.
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