Help with a plan. 360 CS/430 Scud/458 Speciale
Discussion
So plans are afoot in our household. As much as I have loved owning a lambo I am thinking of getting rid to make way for a prancing horse, the problem is which one?
I'll be honest, I am not sure I can push for a 458 Speciale, so the options are 360 CS or a 430 Scud. From what I understand both cars will be great to drive but what kind of spec should I be looking for in each and roughly what kind of price range. I've seen RHD scuds advertised from anywhere between £190 - £250K. Thing the highest price one was a car that had done 600 miles or something like that.
Finally, should the man maths kick in is the extra cash worth it for the 458 Speciale?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
This is what may have turned me. It sounded fantastic. Much nicer noise than the lambo I think.
I'll be honest, I am not sure I can push for a 458 Speciale, so the options are 360 CS or a 430 Scud. From what I understand both cars will be great to drive but what kind of spec should I be looking for in each and roughly what kind of price range. I've seen RHD scuds advertised from anywhere between £190 - £250K. Thing the highest price one was a car that had done 600 miles or something like that.
Finally, should the man maths kick in is the extra cash worth it for the 458 Speciale?
Any advice greatly appreciated.
This is what may have turned me. It sounded fantastic. Much nicer noise than the lambo I think.
Edited by Never you mind on Tuesday 10th October 08:55
Edited by Never you mind on Tuesday 10th October 08:57
Went through the exact same thought process 18 months back.Would love all 3 but can afford only one (poor me 
)
Went for the Scud! Why?
- It's RAW. The noise! The gear change! An event every time I get in it. Certainly more so than a Speciale (which I have owned)
- Still a very fast car by todays standards and takes all your concentration and skill to exploit.
- Relatively good value against the other 2 and still a rare Ferrari (probably half as many made compared to the Speciale).
It was a close call against the CS as it's also such a raw beast, but the age of the cars put me off as well as the performance being no where near the Scud, whereas the leap isn't as huge from Scud to Speciale.
The other big plus for me is that you can still benefit from the a Ferrari Power Warranty on a Scud but the CS is to old now.
)Went for the Scud! Why?
- It's RAW. The noise! The gear change! An event every time I get in it. Certainly more so than a Speciale (which I have owned)
- Still a very fast car by todays standards and takes all your concentration and skill to exploit.
- Relatively good value against the other 2 and still a rare Ferrari (probably half as many made compared to the Speciale).
It was a close call against the CS as it's also such a raw beast, but the age of the cars put me off as well as the performance being no where near the Scud, whereas the leap isn't as huge from Scud to Speciale.
The other big plus for me is that you can still benefit from the a Ferrari Power Warranty on a Scud but the CS is to old now.
i think you definitely need to drive all 3 as they are all very different from each other - i cannot speak of the Speciale (never owned one)
But i had a CS (2years), then a Scud (4months)...and now back in a CS since 2015 (all personal obviously), that was my final choice.
in the 200kGBP range, I would only trade my CS for another one with lesser mileage or a 997.2 GT3RS
But i had a CS (2years), then a Scud (4months)...and now back in a CS since 2015 (all personal obviously), that was my final choice.
in the 200kGBP range, I would only trade my CS for another one with lesser mileage or a 997.2 GT3RS
430 Scuderia for me. CS is a great car, sounds fantastic etc... but its not fast and the gearbox is a bit agricultural by todays syandards.
458 Speciale is the other end of the scale, lightning fast and quick gearbox but just not as raw and too many built and too expensive. That said I would buy one at list price
430 Scuderia sits between the 2 and is fast and raw enough, sounds great and has the most wonderful gearbox for this type of car. There also far fewer of them and in comparison to the others is a steal at £200k. Get the best you can afford but if you want to drive and enjoy it no point paying a massive price premium for an ultra low mileage car. Even a 20k mileage car has averaged 3,000 miles pa and will be cheaper. Buy on service history and condition
458 Speciale is the other end of the scale, lightning fast and quick gearbox but just not as raw and too many built and too expensive. That said I would buy one at list price
430 Scuderia sits between the 2 and is fast and raw enough, sounds great and has the most wonderful gearbox for this type of car. There also far fewer of them and in comparison to the others is a steal at £200k. Get the best you can afford but if you want to drive and enjoy it no point paying a massive price premium for an ultra low mileage car. Even a 20k mileage car has averaged 3,000 miles pa and will be cheaper. Buy on service history and condition
'Never you mind'
Try all 3 is the best advice. I have only driven the CS, but have fallen in love with the car. Yes, as RL says, the box is a bit agricultural, but only really at lower speeds. The noise is epic, and it is the truest of the 3 to the road racer ethos, having been built 'offline'. It has the fewest built of the 3 too. Personally, I really don't like the fussy look of the Scuderia versus the CS or Speciale. Personal opinion, but those stripes just don't suit it, and it looks a little tacky to me (sorry Scuderia owners).
Enjoy making your decision , and ultimately you can't make a wrong one because they are all fantastic cars.
Try all 3 is the best advice. I have only driven the CS, but have fallen in love with the car. Yes, as RL says, the box is a bit agricultural, but only really at lower speeds. The noise is epic, and it is the truest of the 3 to the road racer ethos, having been built 'offline'. It has the fewest built of the 3 too. Personally, I really don't like the fussy look of the Scuderia versus the CS or Speciale. Personal opinion, but those stripes just don't suit it, and it looks a little tacky to me (sorry Scuderia owners).
Enjoy making your decision , and ultimately you can't make a wrong one because they are all fantastic cars.
Talking of the Challenge Stradale only:
Spec is fairly consistent across the range but use www.challenge-stradale.com to start with history check. Be meticulous as there are some that are imported (from Asia) and some that have been damaged and repaired.
The stripes, if present should be original and painted and command a premium to non-striped cars. Be careful that those that have stripe stickers, can have them removed without damage to the paintwork. Alcantara commands a premium to leather, and those with rollbars should be factory delivered and integrated. An immaculate service record will also command a premium. I wouldn't accept gaps.
There were only a 119 UK RHD cars built, so they are a premium to LHD but that premium is shrinking. It was around £50k but I think it is closer to £30/40k now. As usual, people are not keen on 360's in silver or light blue, and that transfers to CS's. Black, blue and both reds, scuderia or rosso are popular. Lexan windows are rare, and also invoke significant premium.
As a very very rough guide, I would say mileage reduces price by about £2000 per 1000 miles, although super low mileage would amount to more.
Spec is fairly consistent across the range but use www.challenge-stradale.com to start with history check. Be meticulous as there are some that are imported (from Asia) and some that have been damaged and repaired.
The stripes, if present should be original and painted and command a premium to non-striped cars. Be careful that those that have stripe stickers, can have them removed without damage to the paintwork. Alcantara commands a premium to leather, and those with rollbars should be factory delivered and integrated. An immaculate service record will also command a premium. I wouldn't accept gaps.
There were only a 119 UK RHD cars built, so they are a premium to LHD but that premium is shrinking. It was around £50k but I think it is closer to £30/40k now. As usual, people are not keen on 360's in silver or light blue, and that transfers to CS's. Black, blue and both reds, scuderia or rosso are popular. Lexan windows are rare, and also invoke significant premium.
As a very very rough guide, I would say mileage reduces price by about £2000 per 1000 miles, although super low mileage would amount to more.
The CS every day.... the sense of occasion and feeling of pure rawness are immense. The gearbox is actually perfect to my mind - its older, clunkier and just outright brutal. Perfectly suits the car. I love watching my passengers' heads snap back against the head rest every time I up-shift in race mode. Oh and the downshift noises.... wow!! Too loud and too special to track them nowadays so who cares about outright speed, it is more than enough for thrilling road use. And at low speeds the sense of occasion is still awesome. Loud, popping, gurgling. And its stance is soo aggressive. Has it all. Wouldn't change it for the world....
Only thing is I want the steering wheel in closer to me. Does anyone have a solution for that? Are there after market spacers available?
Only thing is I want the steering wheel in closer to me. Does anyone have a solution for that? Are there after market spacers available?
baypond said:
Talking of the Challenge Stradale only:
Spec is fairly consistent across the range but use www.challenge-stradale.com to start with history check. Be meticulous as there are some that are imported (from Asia) and some that have been damaged and repaired.
The stripes, if present should be original and painted and command a premium to non-striped cars. Be careful that those that have stripe stickers, can have them removed without damage to the paintwork. Alcantara commands a premium to leather, and those with rollbars should be factory delivered and integrated. An immaculate service record will also command a premium. I wouldn't accept gaps.
There were only a 119 UK RHD cars built, so they are a premium to LHD but that premium is shrinking. It was around £50k but I think it is closer to £30/40k now. As usual, people are not keen on 360's in silver or light blue, and that transfers to CS's. Black, blue and both reds, scuderia or rosso are popular. Lexan windows are rare, and also invoke significant premium.
As a very very rough guide, I would say mileage reduces price by about £2000 per 1000 miles, although super low mileage would amount to more.
This is exactly the info I need. Thank you.Spec is fairly consistent across the range but use www.challenge-stradale.com to start with history check. Be meticulous as there are some that are imported (from Asia) and some that have been damaged and repaired.
The stripes, if present should be original and painted and command a premium to non-striped cars. Be careful that those that have stripe stickers, can have them removed without damage to the paintwork. Alcantara commands a premium to leather, and those with rollbars should be factory delivered and integrated. An immaculate service record will also command a premium. I wouldn't accept gaps.
There were only a 119 UK RHD cars built, so they are a premium to LHD but that premium is shrinking. It was around £50k but I think it is closer to £30/40k now. As usual, people are not keen on 360's in silver or light blue, and that transfers to CS's. Black, blue and both reds, scuderia or rosso are popular. Lexan windows are rare, and also invoke significant premium.
As a very very rough guide, I would say mileage reduces price by about £2000 per 1000 miles, although super low mileage would amount to more.
BTW you chaps aren't making the decision any easier!!!! I know we all love our cars but still... I know it's a first world problem an all that but this is not an easy decision. Good times !
The CS stripe was never ever painted from factory: it was a sticker, which was layed on before clear coating the body: hence you should be able to feel it under the clear coat by passing your finger.
On the Scud, it's a different story: it was indeed painted.
I sort of agree with the above post except that the Strad is a dream to drive on track days and you should take it if you can, but only on days Without any noise restrictions as the Strad is way above static and pass by limits set at places like Silverstone (shame really - I got black flagged several times there for exceeding 117dB in the straight even though I'm running a pretty much new stock exhaust). Strad is at home at places like Spa however, it howls up the straights and barks like crazy downshifting! No other modern road Ferrari will match its lyrics except the Enzo. But from what I hear the CS is by far the loudest of them all...don't know how they managed back them to legalise it, but they did!
On the Scud, it's a different story: it was indeed painted.
I sort of agree with the above post except that the Strad is a dream to drive on track days and you should take it if you can, but only on days Without any noise restrictions as the Strad is way above static and pass by limits set at places like Silverstone (shame really - I got black flagged several times there for exceeding 117dB in the straight even though I'm running a pretty much new stock exhaust). Strad is at home at places like Spa however, it howls up the straights and barks like crazy downshifting! No other modern road Ferrari will match its lyrics except the Enzo. But from what I hear the CS is by far the loudest of them all...don't know how they managed back them to legalise it, but they did!
Edited by 911Thrasher on Tuesday 10th October 23:17
Given the low(ish) finance rates am also looking at a Scuderia at the moment - need a mode-engined light-weight Ferrari in my life again - one question, is the clutch really 6k euros installed or are there cheaper ways to do that - did not think it would be that expensive (or are there many hours of work involved). Would changing the clutch at an independent impact warranty?
Thx
Thx
911Thrasher said:
The CS stripe was never ever painted from factory: it was a sticker, which was layed on before clear coating the body: hence you should be able to feel it under the clear coat by passing your finger.
On the Scud, it's a different story: it was indeed painted.
I never knew that. Whenever I have seen it discussed before, it was always mentioned that the factory stripe was painted.On the Scud, it's a different story: it was indeed painted.
Edited by 911Thrasher on Tuesday 10th October 23:17
we live and learn!
MDL111 said:
Given the low(ish) finance rates am also looking at a Scuderia at the moment - need a mode-engined light-weight Ferrari in my life again - one question, is the clutch really 6k euros installed or are there cheaper ways to do that - did not think it would be that expensive (or are there many hours of work involved). Would changing the clutch at an independent impact warranty?
Thx
It’s between 8 and 9 hours labour to change the clutch. Shopping around should get a clutch installed for around £2000 at a decent Indy. If the “while we are in there” items are invoked you can easily add half as much again in flywheel grind or replace, PIS sensor, release bearing and clutch block. The good news is that the “ELP” variants of gearbox software with its self-tune characteristics used on the scuderia mean the clutch wear is much improved over standard 430’s. the Ferrari warranty would be affected if you had aftermarket parts fitted. A proper pre-purchase inspection (even if you decide to buy from a Franchised dealer) is a must, and will tell you how the car has been treated. The dash, for example, records lots of background information such as the maximum speed the car has achieved, and max revs, as well as values for disc/pad wear.Thx
Cerberaherts said:
MDL111 said:
Given the low(ish) finance rates am also looking at a Scuderia at the moment - need a mode-engined light-weight Ferrari in my life again - one question, is the clutch really 6k euros installed or are there cheaper ways to do that - did not think it would be that expensive (or are there many hours of work involved). Would changing the clutch at an independent impact warranty?
Thx
It’s between 8 and 9 hours labour to change the clutch. Shopping around should get a clutch installed for around £2000 at a decent Indy. If the “while we are in there” items are invoked you can easily add half as much again in flywheel grind or replace, PIS sensor, release bearing and clutch block. The good news is that the “ELP” variants of gearbox software with its self-tune characteristics used on the scuderia mean the clutch wear is much improved over standard 430’s. the Ferrari warranty would be affected if you had aftermarket parts fitted. A proper pre-purchase inspection (even if you decide to buy from a Franchised dealer) is a must, and will tell you how the car has been treated. The dash, for example, records lots of background information such as the maximum speed the car has achieved, and max revs, as well as values for disc/pad wear.Thx
Never you mind said:
This is exactly the info I need. Thank you.
BTW you chaps aren't making the decision any easier!!!! I know we all love our cars but still... I know it's a first world problem an all that but this is not an easy decision. Good times !
Where about's in the UK are you?, if you're SE based I may be able to help you.BTW you chaps aren't making the decision any easier!!!! I know we all love our cars but still... I know it's a first world problem an all that but this is not an easy decision. Good times !
Drop me a PM
mwstewart said:
Never you mind said:
Are the led shift lights a must have?
Very easy to swap the steering wheel later on if you get a plain Alcantara wheel.Just plug and play?
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