360 third gear synchro weak

[Mike Brown]

Hi all, my car seems to have delveloped a problem when going down shifting from fourth to third, if I rush the change it seems to crunch, if I take it gently it's ok.
Is this a worn synchromesh? If so what do you think would be my best course of action, any advices greatly appreciated.
My car is a keeper so whatever action is necessary I will get it repaired, advices on repairs,repairers, etc .
Many thanks Mike

[dang2407]

Hey Mike I've just bought a 360 and the previous owner said that he had already replaced the 3rd gear sync which apparently is a well-known weakness.... so you are not alone.

[johnnyreggae]

Alternatively https://aldousvoice.com/2012/09/29/ferrari-360-f43...

[Mike Brown]

Thanks Johnny reggae, its definitely the gearbox synchro and not the selection mechanism,

[Mike Brown]

[quote=dang2407]Hey Mike I've just bought a 360 and the previous owner said that he had already replaced the 3rd gear sync which apparently is a well-known weakness.... so you are not alone.[/
Could you possibly find out where he had this done for me please, could be a great help, many thanks Mike

[Mike Brown]

Thanks Johnny reggae, its definitely the gearbox synchro and not the selection mechanism,

[Mike Brown]

I was kind of hoping Cerbera Herts would be along to give me advice, maybe even offering to fix it for me, is he still around I have not seen his posts for a while.
Or indeed any recommendations for repairs, many thanks Mike

[Cerberaherts]

Strangely enough, I'm doing a 360 gearbox right now that has this fault. The synchro fails. If it's bad it takes out the 3rd gear pinion too (common). It isn't a cheap repair I'm afraid. It's 'box out, gear set out and strip the main shaft. Budget £800-£1200 in parts alone. Labour varies, most places will charge between 2 and 2,5k parts and labour. Make sure whoever does it has the right box-sockets for the ring nuts or the shafts get er....shafted!

[f1ten]

Hi
I had 3rd gear go on my 360 manual as well

Not sure if I was robbed but it cost me a lot more than cerbera is quoting !
It shares the same gearbox as Maserati cogs or so I was told

No cheap solution it's got to be replaced

[Mike Brown]

Thank you Cerberaherts, I have sent a pm to you, you can definitely repair it for me, I am having the gear oil changed just to see if it helps, putting Redline in, I am doubtful but hey worth a go.
I will contact you shortly if this offers no improvement.
Many thanks Mike

[Mike Brown]

Thank you Cerberaherts, I have sent a pm to you, you can definitely repair it for me, I am having the gear oil changed just to see if it helps, putting Redline in, I am doubtful but hey worth a go.
I will contact you shortly if this offers no improvement.
Many thanks Mike

[mike01606]

f1ten said:

Hi
I had 3rd gear go on my 360 manual as well

Seems more common on manuals or is that a coincidence? F1's are 2:1 but all three on this thread are manuals.

[f1ten]

My guess is yes the manuals suffer. Mine was on 32k miles I think when it happened

[Mike Brown]

Mine just done 33k, and all in my ownership gentle use, I believe the previous owner( just one) probably looked after it well also.
Just goes to show no matter how well we treat them they still wear.
Mike

[mike01606]

Mike Brown said:

Mine just done 33k, and all in my ownership gentle use, I believe the previous owner( just one) probably looked after it well also.
Just goes to show no matter how well we treat them they still wear.
Mike

Has it had annual trans oil changes Mike?

Definitely recommended on the 360 if you've seen the colour it comes out.

[Mike Brown]

You know what I don't know about annual transmission oil changes, it was always serviced by Ferrari on time, I did the last change and the oil was very poor.
Put new oil in and everything was fine for the next few k miles, then just last week I became aware of the crunch between fourth and third whilst down shifting, I have always driven carefully and double declutched .
I am going to give it an oil change and check and clean the mesh filter, if I find metallic debris I will get it repaired asap without further driving.
Since seeking help with this post it has become very apparent that third gear synchromesh failure is quite common.

[Mike Brown]

Just as an aside to servicing and careful use, it does not always follow that well maintained cars will always be so fault free.
One of my lorries was driven from new by one of my most careful, conscientious drivers, and serviced according to the manufacturer schedule, and guess what the engine crankcase broke after the crankshaft thrust washers failed without warning at quite low mileage.
Incidentally they are fully automatic, and I have never had a synchromesh fail
and the clutches never wear out, 750k is pretty average mileage on these lorries, some go to 1 million, just thought I'd mention it out of interest.
Thanks for the help to everyone, this is were these forums are worth there weight in gold, I will be taking it to Cerberaherts.


if no improvement after the oil change, I am hopeful but not betting on it curing the problem.

Kind regards to all Mike

[Cerberaherts]

No probs Mike. Nice to speak to you today. Just for clarification, the original shell Transaxle fluid was awful a compromise between GL4 ( required for the hypoid gears) and GL5 (needed for the diff) and things have moved on since it was introduced in 1999 There are pages and pages on many websites offering differing opinions on gear oils and additives. Ultimately, a decent oil, such as the valvoline 75w90 is a happy medium between the two GL requirements. (Other oil are available!!!) its worth changing every year or every two if you don't cover so many miles. Extra slippy additives promoted by some do little but keep inertia in the main and layshafts between gear changes encouraging damage to synchro rings and pinion gears, as well as inducing shear damage to surfaces. I use additives such as "Kendal" in cases where people are suffering with diff chatter or other similar issues but generally try to avoid putting stuff in outside of the base lubricant.

F1 cars use an input speed sensor to detect internal shaft speed, the TCU which is the electronic device that controls the gearbox, prevents gear engagements under such conditions which results in less likelihood of damage in comparison to manual cars. It's swings and roundabouts, manuals and F1 cars just have different modes of failure...

Edited by Cerberaherts on Thursday 11th May 06:19

[Mike Brown]

Well I thought I would update you all on my 360 gearbox issue, I have completely drained the oil including blowing air down the cooler pipe.
The mesh filter was removed and showed surprisingly little in the way of metallic debris, I would wager that it has never been cleaned before,
I put in 3.5 litres of Redline 75/95 GL4, with no additive, to say I am astounded by the complete transformation of the gearbox would be an understatement.
There is no longer any crunching, indeed going up and down the box at various speeds there is no problem whatsoever, I can only surmise that the old oil had become no longer fit for purpose.
So I am one happy man. I will say though that my car will go to Ed at Christian Lewis from this point on, for many reasons, if you read this Ed please accept my sincere thanks for your kindness and advices.
I will contact you about September for you to service and mot it, you can then double check the car over , unless I have problems prior to this.
I am looking forward to a summer of good use from it.
Many thanks Mike

[mike01606]

Mike Brown said:

Well I thought I would update you all on my 360 gearbox issue, I have completely drained the oil including blowing air down the cooler pipe.
The mesh filter was removed and showed surprisingly little in the way of metallic debris, I would wager that it has never been cleaned before,
I put in 3.5 litres of Redline 75/95 GL4, with no additive, to say I am astounded by the complete transformation of the gearbox would be an understatement.
There is no longer any crunching, indeed going up and down the box at various speeds there is no problem whatsoever, I can only surmise that the old oil had become no longer fit for purpose.
So I am one happy man. I will say though that my car will go to Ed at Christian Lewis from this point on, for many reasons, if you read this Ed please accept my sincere thanks for your kindness and advices.
I will contact you about September for you to service and mot it, you can then double check the car over , unless I have problems prior to this.
I am looking forward to a summer of good use from it.
Many thanks Mike

Good news Mike......Have you seen the many page thread on 360 trans oil running on F-chat.....I was going to put RL 75/90 NS in mine before an upcoming Euro trip but now I'm totally baffled!

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/360-430-sponsored...