360 - manual v F1
Discussion
I'm looking to buy myself a 360 Spider and seeing a car on Monday.
Previously I've owned a few Ferraris - 328GTS - 355GTS - 360 Modena - 360 Spider so I have reasonable experience of the cars, although all my cars were manual and the car I'm seeing on Monday is F1. Although I've haven't owned an F1 car I have driven one ( albeit a 430 spider) quite extensively, when I was a member of a "supercar club" a few years ago ( and enjoyed it) I wonder if the F1 system in the 430 is significantly advanced over the 360 ( I've never driven a 360 F1)
I have a few other cars of various makes and all are manual, which has always been a significant deciding factor for me when buying another toy ! The car I'm seeing ticks every other box, immaculate condition, low mileage etc although I have found a manual spider it has 25,000 more miles on it ( and is £6k less ) but I'm drawn to the F1 car.
Perhaps I should move with the times and also be open to having something different in the garage- but it would certainly help if anyone else could offer any comment regarding experiences they may have had !
Thanks
Steve
Previously I've owned a few Ferraris - 328GTS - 355GTS - 360 Modena - 360 Spider so I have reasonable experience of the cars, although all my cars were manual and the car I'm seeing on Monday is F1. Although I've haven't owned an F1 car I have driven one ( albeit a 430 spider) quite extensively, when I was a member of a "supercar club" a few years ago ( and enjoyed it) I wonder if the F1 system in the 430 is significantly advanced over the 360 ( I've never driven a 360 F1)
I have a few other cars of various makes and all are manual, which has always been a significant deciding factor for me when buying another toy ! The car I'm seeing ticks every other box, immaculate condition, low mileage etc although I have found a manual spider it has 25,000 more miles on it ( and is £6k less ) but I'm drawn to the F1 car.
Perhaps I should move with the times and also be open to having something different in the garage- but it would certainly help if anyone else could offer any comment regarding experiences they may have had !
Thanks
Steve
After 11 years with a manual 348, I have to say I love using the F1 and I used to be very anti F1.
I drive in traffic a lot and apart from the occassional hiccup, it's been a lot of fun.
I also got the CS F1 ecu installed which is great. Only downside is that you ahve to put the car in sport mode to utilise it properly. That means the suspension becomes a lot firmer which in London is not such a good idea.
Would I buy F1 over manual in the future? Yes.
I drive in traffic a lot and apart from the occassional hiccup, it's been a lot of fun.
I also got the CS F1 ecu installed which is great. Only downside is that you ahve to put the car in sport mode to utilise it properly. That means the suspension becomes a lot firmer which in London is not such a good idea.
Would I buy F1 over manual in the future? Yes.
First off it is important to say that I am COMPLETELY biased on manual cars and with no nannies so my opinion may not be representative.
I have a manual 355 and when I was buying it, I tried the F1 box and absolutely hated it.
I bought my CS a year and a half ago and I am still to gel with the F1 box. Its the only thing I don't like but I absolutely love the car.
I must say however, having driven the Scuderia, a normal 430 and a 488, the newer cars are just designed for the F1 and I think manual would not work that well.
If I was buying a 360, I would opt for a manual but given the price these are going at, I would still prefer to get the strad with the F1 as the rest of the experience and feel more than compensates
I have a manual 355 and when I was buying it, I tried the F1 box and absolutely hated it.
I bought my CS a year and a half ago and I am still to gel with the F1 box. Its the only thing I don't like but I absolutely love the car.
I must say however, having driven the Scuderia, a normal 430 and a 488, the newer cars are just designed for the F1 and I think manual would not work that well.
If I was buying a 360, I would opt for a manual but given the price these are going at, I would still prefer to get the strad with the F1 as the rest of the experience and feel more than compensates
I have owned number of Ferrari which have all been manuals. My view is that the 360 can be either manual or F1 as both are good when I drove them, as a result I didn't worry about the box and just bought the best car I could find, which turned out to be manual. The main downside is that F1 on a 360 will need more frequent clutch changes. I also seem to remember that the F1 software (especially in the CS which can be retro fitted) got better on the newer 360's.
430 should be F1 imo.
I use to be a die hard manual fan. Nowadays, if it's a good paddle shift, I prefer paddles!
430 should be F1 imo.
I use to be a die hard manual fan. Nowadays, if it's a good paddle shift, I prefer paddles!
PH's very own Aldous Voice has been tracking 360 prices for a while now (many thanks to Aldous for his hard work, it is much appreciated).
He published his latest update earlier today.
https://aldousvoice.com/2017/04/01/ferrari-360-mar...
According to his analysis average asking price of manual cars is £15k more than F1 cars!
Whilst the market 'values' manual cars more, its a personal decision.
With my money I went manual, and very pleased to see Aldous reporting prices have risen 3.28% in the last month - as I've only had mine a week that's not bad going!
Gratuitous picture....
F1 or Manual, whichever you chose, I don't think you can go wrong buying a [good] 360. They're great value for money at the moment [IM(biased)O of course].
He published his latest update earlier today.
https://aldousvoice.com/2017/04/01/ferrari-360-mar...
According to his analysis average asking price of manual cars is £15k more than F1 cars!
Whilst the market 'values' manual cars more, its a personal decision.
With my money I went manual, and very pleased to see Aldous reporting prices have risen 3.28% in the last month - as I've only had mine a week that's not bad going!
Gratuitous picture....
F1 or Manual, whichever you chose, I don't think you can go wrong buying a [good] 360. They're great value for money at the moment [IM(biased)O of course].
I don't think the premium is due to 360 manuals being better than F1 box cars; I think it has everything to do with the fact that Ferrari no longer make a manual and like anything, rarity and extinction bring collectibility and value. Same with 430; a vehicle that is arguably better with F1, but one that is considerably more valuable in financial terms as a manual.
I also don't think the premium is for rarity. I am under the impression that the production split was quite even between manual vs F1. Actually I think I remember a post saying that the uk had more manuals vs Europe that had more F1
I'm sure someone with knowledge will be able to chime in with actual numbers
I'm sure someone with knowledge will be able to chime in with actual numbers
The 360 was designed from the outset to run with an F1 gearbox (as was the later 430). Manuals have a premium as there are fewer of them (at the time less desirable), and there is a general wave of opinion/bias going towards a manual - 'greater involvment', whether you believe that is another matter.
I tested both before deciding on an F1. I loved the gearbox and thought (and still do, my 430 is F1) that it suits the car perfectly. There are others who prefer the feel of the manual - and don't get me wrong the open gate and the click-clack is very satisfying - but the F1 is still involving, a lot more so than the later twin clutch boxes. I never run it in auto mode, and the shift with the paddles is satisfying and involving.
Looking at prices there is little between a manual 360 and a F1 430. I know in an instant where I would put my money. But I do love the 360.
If I wanted a manual car, I'd be looking at 328 or 355. Though appreciate these prices are even higher!
All I would say is don't be swayed by people who tell you you must have this, can't have that - drive both and see what you feel is best value for money. Buy the best car, with the best provenance, you can. If you're going to drive it then that's all that matters. If you're a collector then that's another matter.
I tested both before deciding on an F1. I loved the gearbox and thought (and still do, my 430 is F1) that it suits the car perfectly. There are others who prefer the feel of the manual - and don't get me wrong the open gate and the click-clack is very satisfying - but the F1 is still involving, a lot more so than the later twin clutch boxes. I never run it in auto mode, and the shift with the paddles is satisfying and involving.
Looking at prices there is little between a manual 360 and a F1 430. I know in an instant where I would put my money. But I do love the 360.
If I wanted a manual car, I'd be looking at 328 or 355. Though appreciate these prices are even higher!
All I would say is don't be swayed by people who tell you you must have this, can't have that - drive both and see what you feel is best value for money. Buy the best car, with the best provenance, you can. If you're going to drive it then that's all that matters. If you're a collector then that's another matter.
355fiorano said:
I also don't think the premium is for rarity. I am under the impression that the production split was quite even between manual vs F1. Actually I think I remember a post saying that the uk had more manuals vs Europe that had more F1
I'm sure someone with knowledge will be able to chime in with actual numbers
Coupe:I'm sure someone with knowledge will be able to chime in with actual numbers
2630 Manual
6170 F1
UK: 352 Manual 702 F1
Spider:
2119 Manual
5460 F1
UK: 478 Manual 513 F1
I own a Manual 360 Spider but have driven both the 360 and 430 with F1 box's.
I remember thinking at the time that upshifts in the 360 F1 were like being kicked in the back of the head.
The 430 F1 system felt more refined, but still nothing on the current crop of dual clutch systems.
A Manual box suits the 360 much more I think, the click clack of that H gate and the involvement in rev matching is unrivalled.
It's also timeless, whereas an F1 box is ultimately a technology based product. Like all technology it is quickly out of date. Jump into a 10 year old S Class and it feels ancient. Same thing applies with an F1 box.
That said, it's one of those questions which doesn't have a right answer and can be debated until the end of time. Everyone is different.
I remember thinking at the time that upshifts in the 360 F1 were like being kicked in the back of the head.
The 430 F1 system felt more refined, but still nothing on the current crop of dual clutch systems.
A Manual box suits the 360 much more I think, the click clack of that H gate and the involvement in rev matching is unrivalled.
It's also timeless, whereas an F1 box is ultimately a technology based product. Like all technology it is quickly out of date. Jump into a 10 year old S Class and it feels ancient. Same thing applies with an F1 box.
That said, it's one of those questions which doesn't have a right answer and can be debated until the end of time. Everyone is different.
Thanks very much for the replies - certainly gives me plenty of food for thought !
These are the cars which are on my shortlist - any comments welcome please.....
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C839740
The Black F1 car looks to be in almost untouched condition and whist I appreciate that Black's not for everyone I find it quite appealing ( I previously owned a 328 GTS in Black ) - interesting that all services are with the supplying main dealer which I guess is a potential history advantage !?
The Red car is a little more used but as I understand it Keys Motorsport have an excellent reputation within Ferrari circles and they've looked after the car for the last three years.
F1 is the only doubt I have over the Black car - as mentioned in my previous post I have some other cars ( Lotus Elise / Alfa SZ Zagato / Datsun 240Z / Abarth 595 Competizione / Porsche 911/ original Fiat 500 ) all in manual, so it's not as if I'm without a manual option !
Any comments on the two cars shown would be welcome
Thanks
These are the cars which are on my shortlist - any comments welcome please.....
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/f...
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C839740
The Black F1 car looks to be in almost untouched condition and whist I appreciate that Black's not for everyone I find it quite appealing ( I previously owned a 328 GTS in Black ) - interesting that all services are with the supplying main dealer which I guess is a potential history advantage !?
The Red car is a little more used but as I understand it Keys Motorsport have an excellent reputation within Ferrari circles and they've looked after the car for the last three years.
F1 is the only doubt I have over the Black car - as mentioned in my previous post I have some other cars ( Lotus Elise / Alfa SZ Zagato / Datsun 240Z / Abarth 595 Competizione / Porsche 911/ original Fiat 500 ) all in manual, so it's not as if I'm without a manual option !
Any comments on the two cars shown would be welcome
Thanks
Edited by sng45 on Sunday 2nd April 11:21
Edited by sng45 on Sunday 2nd April 11:24
The manual car looks like remarkably good value to me, especially if its been prepped well.
It lacks some nice to have options like the carbon seats or challenge grill, but the grill can be fitted afterwards anyway.
If you're planning on using and enjoying it then mileage shouldn't be an issue.
It lacks some nice to have options like the carbon seats or challenge grill, but the grill can be fitted afterwards anyway.
If you're planning on using and enjoying it then mileage shouldn't be an issue.
Angelis said:
After 11 years with a manual 348, I have to say I love using the F1 and I used to be very anti F1.
I drive in traffic a lot and apart from the occassional hiccup, it's been a lot of fun.
I also got the CS F1 ecu installed which is great. Only downside is that you ahve to put the car in sport mode to utilise it properly. That means the suspension becomes a lot firmer which in London is not such a good idea.
Would I buy F1 over manual in the future? Yes.
My manual 360 spends all it's time in sport mode anyway. Although the more compliant suspension is nice, the traction control is ridiculous unless you're in sport mode. If you even think of accelerating out of a bend - even on a warm sunny day with superglue like grip - it will cut the power. Don't know if mine is more sensitive than it should be but it's truly horrible - it took me a month of ownership before I realised that sports mode solved that as well as giving you rather firm suspension.I drive in traffic a lot and apart from the occassional hiccup, it's been a lot of fun.
I also got the CS F1 ecu installed which is great. Only downside is that you ahve to put the car in sport mode to utilise it properly. That means the suspension becomes a lot firmer which in London is not such a good idea.
Would I buy F1 over manual in the future? Yes.
(I didn't want F1 - I might be pleasantly surprised if I tried one, and eventually I guess it will be hard to avoid - but I'm glad I went manual).
Another big point for me is the way the interior looks, manuals some how seem right whereas I don't like the look of what I perceive as silly buttons where the manual gate should be, took mine for a 100 mile outing yesterday and loved every single gear change and its accompanying Clack
Gassing Station | Ferrari V8 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff