Ferrari Dilemma
Discussion
Hey Ferrari Peeps
Current ride is a 2015 F10 M5. It has (as I'm sure you are all well aware) a bonkers gearbox and goes like stink.
The problem I'm facing is that whilst it's epic and is basically a star cruiser, it's not scratching *that* itch I've had since I was about 6 years old.
There is only one solution to this particular problem, and it's Ferrari shaped.
So I'm going to replace the M5 for something calmer but still a competent family cruiser and get myself an Italian thoroughbred
But I still don't know exactly what Ferrari to buy.
After the M5, I know how important a good soundtrack is (because it's absent in my beemer!) but I also know what speed mixed with luxury feels like. I.e. It feels good!
I was looking at an F430 spider and felt this was a great way to get into Ferrari ownership at an "affordable" price point. They still look great from the outside (to my eyes) and with the roof down I understand they sound incredible when you press on. Only issue is I sat in one recently and, how do I put this delicately, the cabin felt pretty out of date.
Then, I did the worst thing possible this weekend and visited my local Ferrari garage and took a look at a 458. Started it up and I got goosebumps and the interior felt so much more modern than the 430 I sat in. The dealer sensed a deal and went to great lengths to explain how the 430 gearbox would feel archaic after my M5 and listed all the 430 reliability woes etc etc.
Thing is, a good 458 Italia is $60k+ more than a decent 430 spider and that's a *lot* of change.
Is it worth it? Would the 430 feel like a step back from my M5?
I don't want my dream of owning a Ferrari to be shattered by a suboptimal first ownership.
What would you do? Buy a good 430 spider and keep the money or splash on a 458 Italia?
I can't run to the extra $30 for a 458 spider so that's not an option either.
Look forward to hearing your thoughts !
-benbobs
Current ride is a 2015 F10 M5. It has (as I'm sure you are all well aware) a bonkers gearbox and goes like stink.
The problem I'm facing is that whilst it's epic and is basically a star cruiser, it's not scratching *that* itch I've had since I was about 6 years old.
There is only one solution to this particular problem, and it's Ferrari shaped.
So I'm going to replace the M5 for something calmer but still a competent family cruiser and get myself an Italian thoroughbred
But I still don't know exactly what Ferrari to buy.
After the M5, I know how important a good soundtrack is (because it's absent in my beemer!) but I also know what speed mixed with luxury feels like. I.e. It feels good!
I was looking at an F430 spider and felt this was a great way to get into Ferrari ownership at an "affordable" price point. They still look great from the outside (to my eyes) and with the roof down I understand they sound incredible when you press on. Only issue is I sat in one recently and, how do I put this delicately, the cabin felt pretty out of date.
Then, I did the worst thing possible this weekend and visited my local Ferrari garage and took a look at a 458. Started it up and I got goosebumps and the interior felt so much more modern than the 430 I sat in. The dealer sensed a deal and went to great lengths to explain how the 430 gearbox would feel archaic after my M5 and listed all the 430 reliability woes etc etc.
Thing is, a good 458 Italia is $60k+ more than a decent 430 spider and that's a *lot* of change.
Is it worth it? Would the 430 feel like a step back from my M5?
I don't want my dream of owning a Ferrari to be shattered by a suboptimal first ownership.
What would you do? Buy a good 430 spider and keep the money or splash on a 458 Italia?
I can't run to the extra $30 for a 458 spider so that's not an option either.
Look forward to hearing your thoughts !
-benbobs
A work colleague has an M5 like you and I took him out for a blast in my 458 spider recently, the sound, acceleration etc completely blew his mind he couldn't grasp how fast it was. He commented that he had to get back into his m5 now and sighed !!!
The 458 is definitely the way to go if you can run with the extra cost for the car, the best thing is to drive one but be warned..... you will be hooked.
Happy hunting..
The 458 is definitely the way to go if you can run with the extra cost for the car, the best thing is to drive one but be warned..... you will be hooked.
Happy hunting..
TonyF said:
A work colleague has an M5 like you and I took him out for a blast in my 458 spider recently, the sound, acceleration etc completely blew his mind he couldn't grasp how fast it was. He commented that he had to get back into his m5 now and sighed !!!
The 458 is definitely the way to go if you can run with the extra cost for the car, the best thing is to drive one but be warned..... you will be hooked.
Happy hunting..
I'd be surprised if the 458 felt much faster than an F10 M5. It will definitely have felt much more special though. Don't get me wrong, I've had an M5 for nearly 2 years and would much rather have a 458 but obviously they are not really comparable other than in performance terms and I need 4 seats in my everyday car so have just done a deal on an FF to replace it. Can't wait The 458 is definitely the way to go if you can run with the extra cost for the car, the best thing is to drive one but be warned..... you will be hooked.
Happy hunting..
isaldiri said:
^this. The 458 is a generation ahead of the 430 and it really does show in the way it drives. Plus the build quality is a fair bit better too imo.
Agree , night and day and with F430 prices so high and underpinning 458 the gap in truth is not very much for what you get. Or you could get a tune and exhaust and then blow away any 458's that get in the way ...
seriously though if the 458 is affordable it has to be the way forward... F430.... alot of compromises is made for just the sound track and "specialness" imo
Are you dead set on a Ferrari? or is it just wanting something special??
New TVR. Evora 400 (sounds awesome), Maserati Granturismo, Aston V12V s,
Or Keep M5 tune it to 7-750 bhp (which will make you LOL when you stamp on it ) and buy something bonkers like an Atom or Caterham, Then you have an awesome cruiser, and a nice Toy you can tinker with and enjoy when suns out
seriously though if the 458 is affordable it has to be the way forward... F430.... alot of compromises is made for just the sound track and "specialness" imo
Are you dead set on a Ferrari? or is it just wanting something special??
New TVR. Evora 400 (sounds awesome), Maserati Granturismo, Aston V12V s,
Or Keep M5 tune it to 7-750 bhp (which will make you LOL when you stamp on it ) and buy something bonkers like an Atom or Caterham, Then you have an awesome cruiser, and a nice Toy you can tinker with and enjoy when suns out
The 458 has greater limits, is quite a bit quicker than a standard F430 and is considerably easier to extract performance from. The DSG/DCT 'box shift speeds also make F1 in an early F430 seem like a poorly driven manual. It is quieter, more refined than an F430, and built with trim finish standards more like a production car. If you are interested in tech then it's one step on in that regard and much more focussed on it. Be aware that the sat nav isn't great.
The F430 has greater feedback at the wheel thanks to the motorsport type spherical joints. The 458 road car went over to Lemforder type nylon ball joints (BMW developed them for their earlier M cars); they have greater service life but more deflection thus less feedback. The Challenge car stuck with the F430 joints. Some people are happy with the service life increase/feedback reduction compromise. The interior is a more basic proposition as you noticed and really needs the carbon driving zone to look good. Trim fit and finish is in-between Ferrari's of old and new production methods; not to say it doesn't work, but there are greater tolerances on non-essential components! There is more noise transmission from the engine and exhaust, and in fact the standard exhaust is louder with the valves open.
The F430’s rack ratio is however much higher (16:1) so it immediately feels less direct than a 458, but feedback and steering response is such that there's not a problem catching a slide. Personally, I would have liked a different rack ratio and think it's one thing Ferrari should have changed from the 360. The F1 system in the F430 was heavily revised for MY2008 and having experienced the earlier type I would not advise going there; shift speeds are down from 160ms to 120ms, which let's face it is still pretty slow by today's standards. If anything earlier and 2008 I would go with a manual, in fact if going with an F430 go for the 2008 anyway. Overall reliability is damn good. Change the exhaust manifolds (standard are rubbish and very restrictive) & mounts then it's just service items and a few niggles. I can’t speak for 458 long term reliability as my experience is based on a few days vs months for the F430.
In the end for me the F430 was the one for me; whilst the 458 feels more direct thanks to the rack and DCT box when it comes down to the actual driving it's a bit less of a challenge, and it feels less of a visceral machine than the F430 does. I don’t use mine very often and want something that is closer to the mechanicals of the thing - the 458 is very polished in that regard. I also like to really push my cars and the 458’s levels are too high to really allow that often on the public roads. Make no mistake though the performance gap is considerable!
Another consideration for you is the Scuderia. Performance levels are quite similar to the 458. LHD 458s start at £117 compared to Scuderia’s at £129. RHD Scuderia's start around £175. It’s even more stripped out than the 458, so given the cabin is a priority for you, it may not be the ‘one’ - it is however a much better drivers car.
Whatever you get I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I have an E46 M3 in CSL spec and to be honest it doesn't even come close - not even remotely - to the overall driving experience of the other car!
The F430 has greater feedback at the wheel thanks to the motorsport type spherical joints. The 458 road car went over to Lemforder type nylon ball joints (BMW developed them for their earlier M cars); they have greater service life but more deflection thus less feedback. The Challenge car stuck with the F430 joints. Some people are happy with the service life increase/feedback reduction compromise. The interior is a more basic proposition as you noticed and really needs the carbon driving zone to look good. Trim fit and finish is in-between Ferrari's of old and new production methods; not to say it doesn't work, but there are greater tolerances on non-essential components! There is more noise transmission from the engine and exhaust, and in fact the standard exhaust is louder with the valves open.
The F430’s rack ratio is however much higher (16:1) so it immediately feels less direct than a 458, but feedback and steering response is such that there's not a problem catching a slide. Personally, I would have liked a different rack ratio and think it's one thing Ferrari should have changed from the 360. The F1 system in the F430 was heavily revised for MY2008 and having experienced the earlier type I would not advise going there; shift speeds are down from 160ms to 120ms, which let's face it is still pretty slow by today's standards. If anything earlier and 2008 I would go with a manual, in fact if going with an F430 go for the 2008 anyway. Overall reliability is damn good. Change the exhaust manifolds (standard are rubbish and very restrictive) & mounts then it's just service items and a few niggles. I can’t speak for 458 long term reliability as my experience is based on a few days vs months for the F430.
In the end for me the F430 was the one for me; whilst the 458 feels more direct thanks to the rack and DCT box when it comes down to the actual driving it's a bit less of a challenge, and it feels less of a visceral machine than the F430 does. I don’t use mine very often and want something that is closer to the mechanicals of the thing - the 458 is very polished in that regard. I also like to really push my cars and the 458’s levels are too high to really allow that often on the public roads. Make no mistake though the performance gap is considerable!
Another consideration for you is the Scuderia. Performance levels are quite similar to the 458. LHD 458s start at £117 compared to Scuderia’s at £129. RHD Scuderia's start around £175. It’s even more stripped out than the 458, so given the cabin is a priority for you, it may not be the ‘one’ - it is however a much better drivers car.
Whatever you get I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I have an E46 M3 in CSL spec and to be honest it doesn't even come close - not even remotely - to the overall driving experience of the other car!
I ran an F430 Spider for five years and changed it for a 458 last year. I can't add that much to the posts above, but subjectively I love the feel of the 458 and don't regret the change. Forgetting about all the "investment" distraction, if you have the choice, in my opinion go 458. It just feels (and is) a generation ahead in terms of capability although, having one of the older 458's here, I'm not that sure about build quality - stuff has started coming loose on mine and the seats have worn.
You will miss the roof down possibilities though, and if, having driven both, you prefer the F430 Spider then that is perfectly understandable. The F430 Spider does in my opinion sound better than a 458 and you don't really need that extra power in normal driving. Having gone on epic hoons around Scotland this year and last year in the 458 in Wales and Scotland and in previous years in the F430, I certainly don't recall feeling short changed in relation to the fun I had in the F430.
You will miss the roof down possibilities though, and if, having driven both, you prefer the F430 Spider then that is perfectly understandable. The F430 Spider does in my opinion sound better than a 458 and you don't really need that extra power in normal driving. Having gone on epic hoons around Scotland this year and last year in the 458 in Wales and Scotland and in previous years in the F430, I certainly don't recall feeling short changed in relation to the fun I had in the F430.
If I was in your shoes I would arrange to test drive a F430 immediately followed by a 458 and see how you feel.
Chalk and Cheese in terms of driving experience (and probably ownership too as I hear many problems with the F430 but hardly none with a 458).
Good luck with your search...happy days either way
Chalk and Cheese in terms of driving experience (and probably ownership too as I hear many problems with the F430 but hardly none with a 458).
Good luck with your search...happy days either way
you should drive the 430, you'll soon forget out about the interior 
i've got a F82 comp pack(so in theory a better drivers car than the F10), yes the interior is newer but it has a whole lot more plastic and less leather than the 430... but design aside, despite it being 10 years older, its just better to "drive" than the M4, i don't mean easier to drive or more comfortable, its just better in a Ferrari way thats impossible to describe in text, you'll know what i mean if you get to drive one properly! granted mines a manual and i've never really drove an F1 so that may spoil the party a bit, F1 owners seem to claim its the other way round... the 458 is just better in every way (unless you want a manual) but as you point out its getting on for twice the price!
i've got a F82 comp pack(so in theory a better drivers car than the F10), yes the interior is newer but it has a whole lot more plastic and less leather than the 430... but design aside, despite it being 10 years older, its just better to "drive" than the M4, i don't mean easier to drive or more comfortable, its just better in a Ferrari way thats impossible to describe in text, you'll know what i mean if you get to drive one properly! granted mines a manual and i've never really drove an F1 so that may spoil the party a bit, F1 owners seem to claim its the other way round... the 458 is just better in every way (unless you want a manual) but as you point out its getting on for twice the price!
I had to Google "F82 Competition Pack" to figure out what it is - very nice.
As it happens, I recently chopped in my 997 daily $hitter for an E93 M3 Cabrio - which does the whole cruise, convertible and even though it will be compromised, I hope a bit of tracking too. And there is nothing like the sound of a V8 (at 8,200 rpm it sounds like a bear gargling grenades), I'm a sucker for a n/a V8.
.
As it happens, I recently chopped in my 997 daily $hitter for an E93 M3 Cabrio - which does the whole cruise, convertible and even though it will be compromised, I hope a bit of tracking too. And there is nothing like the sound of a V8 (at 8,200 rpm it sounds like a bear gargling grenades), I'm a sucker for a n/a V8.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFIDRUOv7AA
I could never, ever, ever be without my 458 Spider. I'm gonna be buried in it.
I could never, ever, ever be without my 458 Spider. I'm gonna be buried in it.
Thanks for the great advice everyone !
So I ran the numbers past the wife last night and she's going to let me push the button on a 458 Italia!
She's a very understanding woman :-)
Last question - any opinions/horror stories on getting a car through Ferrari pre-approved vs non-Ferrari dealers?
Their cars seem to carry a premium but also offer a 1yr warranty.
-ben
So I ran the numbers past the wife last night and she's going to let me push the button on a 458 Italia!
She's a very understanding woman :-)
Last question - any opinions/horror stories on getting a car through Ferrari pre-approved vs non-Ferrari dealers?
Their cars seem to carry a premium but also offer a 1yr warranty.
-ben
benbobs said:
Thanks for the great advice everyone !
So I ran the numbers past the wife last night and she's going to let me push the button on a 458 Italia!
She's a very understanding woman :-)
Last question - any opinions/horror stories on getting a car through Ferrari pre-approved vs non-Ferrari dealers?
Their cars seem to carry a premium but also offer a 1yr warranty.
-ben
You"ll get a 2 year warranty if bought from a maim dealer not 1 year. I would only buy from a non franchised dealer if there was a £10k price difference. The warranty itself is worth around £4k.So I ran the numbers past the wife last night and she's going to let me push the button on a 458 Italia!
She's a very understanding woman :-)
Last question - any opinions/horror stories on getting a car through Ferrari pre-approved vs non-Ferrari dealers?
Their cars seem to carry a premium but also offer a 1yr warranty.
-ben
Gassing Station | Ferrari V8 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff