so which model would you go for?
Discussion
I've got an F430 at the moment - a 10k miles 2008 example thats pristine. And thats a problem. To keep a decent residual the mileage needs to be kept down. With a dealer service history and the Ferrari guarantee, servicing really has to be dealer at dealer prices. And as a pristine car, it cant really be thrashed up a hillclimb or really used in the way I would like.
So I am thinking of selling it and buying an older cheaper model that I can maintain at an indie ( or even do myself) and use for track days and hillclimbs. And not think of mileage though it still wont do more than say 5k p.a. Not planning on a tatty car, just not a conkers one. Yes I know that I will likely still lose money but it will be a lot less. I hope. I will feel relaxed in suing and abusing it which I dont feel at the moment.
Only other requirement is that it be a rag top.
So in that scenario, which model would you chose? And it has to be red.
So I am thinking of selling it and buying an older cheaper model that I can maintain at an indie ( or even do myself) and use for track days and hillclimbs. And not think of mileage though it still wont do more than say 5k p.a. Not planning on a tatty car, just not a conkers one. Yes I know that I will likely still lose money but it will be a lot less. I hope. I will feel relaxed in suing and abusing it which I dont feel at the moment.
Only other requirement is that it be a rag top.
So in that scenario, which model would you chose? And it has to be red.
Edited by bordseye on Saturday 17th September 19:39
I've owned various V8's and 12's over 20 years of Ferrari ownership (including 430 though in manual form) and three stand out with fondest memories, 308, 355 and 550.
In terms of maintenance, ease of running and even reliability, the 308 would be my choice. It really is a wonderful car, like an Elise but with a V8 and proper Ferrari character. Still relatively cheap to buy, very easy to maintain and you won't worry about piling miles onto an older car (I did well over 10,000 miles in one year).
Just make sure the bodywork is straight and there is no rust, the rest is easy to deal with.
In terms of maintenance, ease of running and even reliability, the 308 would be my choice. It really is a wonderful car, like an Elise but with a V8 and proper Ferrari character. Still relatively cheap to buy, very easy to maintain and you won't worry about piling miles onto an older car (I did well over 10,000 miles in one year).
Just make sure the bodywork is straight and there is no rust, the rest is easy to deal with.
Any car is going to lose value, relative to lower mileage examples of the same model, as you add miles.
Is your 430 a keeper? In which case, value is irrelevant - enjoy.
If it's not a keeper, does its replacement have to be a Ferrari? You could pretty much take your pick of track day specials and fund many trips and tyres, given that your budget is going to be about £90k.
Could you add a second car to "thrash around" in? Something much, much cheaper yet still with good performance - a 986 Boxster S, for example.
I have two 355s - a definitely not conkers one with 50-odd thousand miles on it, and a concours winner which I bought with the intention of selling the other car. But I can't bring myself to drive the concours winner in the manner intended by Enzo (well, Luca), so I can't sell the driver. Don't end up in this situation.
Is your 430 a keeper? In which case, value is irrelevant - enjoy.
If it's not a keeper, does its replacement have to be a Ferrari? You could pretty much take your pick of track day specials and fund many trips and tyres, given that your budget is going to be about £90k.
Could you add a second car to "thrash around" in? Something much, much cheaper yet still with good performance - a 986 Boxster S, for example.
I have two 355s - a definitely not conkers one with 50-odd thousand miles on it, and a concours winner which I bought with the intention of selling the other car. But I can't bring myself to drive the concours winner in the manner intended by Enzo (well, Luca), so I can't sell the driver. Don't end up in this situation.
HardtopManual said:
But I can't bring myself to drive the concours winner in the manner intended by Enzo (well, Luca),
Glad to know that I'm not alone. Do I love driving the 430 - yes very much so. I've tried lots of other makes and the only other car which feels as tactile on the roads is the Lotus. And thats too small. So I was pondering a 430 predecessor, if I can put it like that, a car which is more useable day to day. Something thats done 25k miles and is long past the FFDH stage of life.From the above responses a 355 looks like a good choice. What are the problems / issue to look out for with that design? Is the cam belt and engine out job, for example?
I think your logic is flawed here. A 430 has been steady/appreciating over the last couple of years. A well looked after, normal or even slightly high mileage car, properly driven as the maker intended, will not lose too much unless there is a collapse in the market.
If there is a collapse in the market you still hold your car and wait it out, normality (whatever that means) will return.
To sell your car now and buy a different one means you have the sellers and buyers profit to pay. Also, have you seen nice 308 pricing lately? Same for 355 and 550. They have all been affected by the same thing as the 430.
So the only solution for you to protect the value you have in your 430 is to sell it and buy another brand. I don't believe there is better value anywhere else in a Ferrari. You could have a go at something like a Mondial, but it is not a great car and they are even £35-£50k for nice ones now. I personally would not pay that.
If there is a collapse in the market you still hold your car and wait it out, normality (whatever that means) will return.
To sell your car now and buy a different one means you have the sellers and buyers profit to pay. Also, have you seen nice 308 pricing lately? Same for 355 and 550. They have all been affected by the same thing as the 430.
So the only solution for you to protect the value you have in your 430 is to sell it and buy another brand. I don't believe there is better value anywhere else in a Ferrari. You could have a go at something like a Mondial, but it is not a great car and they are even £35-£50k for nice ones now. I personally would not pay that.
I'm not sure that logic or commonsense ever comes into the Ferrari buying decisions Lukey! It certainly didnt into mine. But you are right in one sense. If I look at what I could get for my car ( ie main dealer asking price less 20%)I am into half decent 355 territory anyway. So no saving there.
Its more about mentality. We all have hang ups and like Hardtop Manual said, I cant bring myself to treat such a nice clean pristine 430 like Enzo intended.
Its more about mentality. We all have hang ups and like Hardtop Manual said, I cant bring myself to treat such a nice clean pristine 430 like Enzo intended.
Edited by bordseye on Sunday 18th September 13:40
Nano2nd said:
bordseye said:
Its more about mentality. We all have hang ups and like Hardtop Manual said, I cant bring myself to treat such a nice clean pristine 430 like Enzo intended.
sorry but maybe i'm missing something, but whats actually going to happen to it if you use it a bit more?I long for the day we get an asset price crash so people start driving again and stop worrying about values. Suddenly sports cars might seem a little unnecessary....
The days of being able to enjoy any kind of petrol car on public roads are looking like they are numbered as well.
There are decidedly less ferraris seen out driving lately. I barely saw any ferraris in Europe this summer compared to the past. I believe a big part of Ferrari ownership is about others enjoying the car too. Let's get them out there!
Appreciate it's a cliche, but we are a long time dead. I've personally seen enough of that close to home, and it's just a material item that in the bigger scheme isn't that important, so my advice would be just to drive it or sell it.
Also, yes it's a low mileage car, but what exactly will you save by not driving it? Unless sold privately, there'll be a large spread from trade in that will reduce or remove any profit, and the more expensive the car becomes the less likely private sales are possible as buyers use finance/dealer facilities.
We need more Nick Masons - he has a garage full of the things and even the GTO is driven, shared and enjoyed.
The days of being able to enjoy any kind of petrol car on public roads are looking like they are numbered as well.
There are decidedly less ferraris seen out driving lately. I barely saw any ferraris in Europe this summer compared to the past. I believe a big part of Ferrari ownership is about others enjoying the car too. Let's get them out there!
Appreciate it's a cliche, but we are a long time dead. I've personally seen enough of that close to home, and it's just a material item that in the bigger scheme isn't that important, so my advice would be just to drive it or sell it.
Also, yes it's a low mileage car, but what exactly will you save by not driving it? Unless sold privately, there'll be a large spread from trade in that will reduce or remove any profit, and the more expensive the car becomes the less likely private sales are possible as buyers use finance/dealer facilities.
We need more Nick Masons - he has a garage full of the things and even the GTO is driven, shared and enjoyed.
Edited by TB303 on Sunday 18th September 15:43
TB303 said:
I long for the day we get an asset price crash so people start driving again and stop worrying about values. Suddenly sports cars might seem a little unnecessary....
The days of being able to enjoy any kind of petrol car on public roads are looking like they are numbered as well.
There are decidedly less ferraris seen out driving lately. I barely saw any ferraris in Europe this summer compared to the past. I believe a big part of Ferrari ownership is about others enjoying the car too. Let's get them out there!
Appreciate it's a cliche, but we are a long time dead. I've personally seen enough of that close to home, and it's just a material item that in the bigger scheme isn't that important, so my advice would be just to drive it or sell it.
Also, yes it's a low mileage car, but what exactly will you save by not driving it? Unless sold privately, there'll be a large spread from trade in that will reduce or remove any profit, and the more expensive the car becomes the less likely private sales are possible as buyers use finance/dealer facilities.
We need more Nick Masons - he has a garage full of the things and even the GTO is driven, shared and enjoyed.
I remember a fantastic photo from many years ago of Nick's GTO being driven in snow.The days of being able to enjoy any kind of petrol car on public roads are looking like they are numbered as well.
There are decidedly less ferraris seen out driving lately. I barely saw any ferraris in Europe this summer compared to the past. I believe a big part of Ferrari ownership is about others enjoying the car too. Let's get them out there!
Appreciate it's a cliche, but we are a long time dead. I've personally seen enough of that close to home, and it's just a material item that in the bigger scheme isn't that important, so my advice would be just to drive it or sell it.
Also, yes it's a low mileage car, but what exactly will you save by not driving it? Unless sold privately, there'll be a large spread from trade in that will reduce or remove any profit, and the more expensive the car becomes the less likely private sales are possible as buyers use finance/dealer facilities.
We need more Nick Masons - he has a garage full of the things and even the GTO is driven, shared and enjoyed.
Edited by TB303 on Sunday 18th September 15:43
I'm slightly puzzled as you are - a 430 is not a particularly rare or expensive model by Ferrari standards. There are tons of them around in relative terms.
TB303 said:
I long for the day we get an asset price crash so people start driving again and stop worrying about values. Suddenly sports cars might seem a little unnecessary....
The days of being able to enjoy any kind of petrol car on public roads are looking like they are numbered as well.
There are decidedly less ferraris seen out driving lately. I barely saw any ferraris in Europe this summer compared to the past. I believe a big part of Ferrari ownership is about others enjoying the car too. Let's get them out there!
Appreciate it's a cliche, but we are a long time dead. I've personally seen enough of that close to home, and it's just a material item that in the bigger scheme isn't that important, so my advice would be just to drive it or sell it.
Also, yes it's a low mileage car, but what exactly will you save by not driving it? Unless sold privately, there'll be a large spread from trade in that will reduce or remove any profit, and the more expensive the car becomes the less likely private sales are possible as buyers use finance/dealer facilities.
We need more Nick Masons - he has a garage full of the things and even the GTO is driven, shared and enjoyed.
It's not linked but I'm just about to go on a trip across parts of Europe with some friends - F12s, 458s, Speciales (including mine), 675s, 675 Spiders.... We go every year and love it. The days of being able to enjoy any kind of petrol car on public roads are looking like they are numbered as well.
There are decidedly less ferraris seen out driving lately. I barely saw any ferraris in Europe this summer compared to the past. I believe a big part of Ferrari ownership is about others enjoying the car too. Let's get them out there!
Appreciate it's a cliche, but we are a long time dead. I've personally seen enough of that close to home, and it's just a material item that in the bigger scheme isn't that important, so my advice would be just to drive it or sell it.
Also, yes it's a low mileage car, but what exactly will you save by not driving it? Unless sold privately, there'll be a large spread from trade in that will reduce or remove any profit, and the more expensive the car becomes the less likely private sales are possible as buyers use finance/dealer facilities.
We need more Nick Masons - he has a garage full of the things and even the GTO is driven, shared and enjoyed.
Edited by TB303 on Sunday 18th September 15:43
This last few weeks a few of my good friends and work colleagues have been fighting cancer. We're none of us promised tomorrow, so, to me, faith is important. As is getting some of these things into perspective. I don't mind if people gain enjoymemt from collecting and not driving cars, but if you're in it for the driving then I reckon it's worth getting on with it. It absolutely is not the most important thing in life but if you enjoy it then you should do it.
I have often had this discussion with my father; he taught me a 'post war' value for money, which is invaluable. On the other hand, I have reminded him that time is the now the rarer commodity for him so why not spend at least some money on things he would enjoy - I can tell you he has worked incredibly hard his whole life but struggles to spend the fruits of his labour. He is still a work in progress although the patient is getting better daily!
Not trying to lecture, your comment just triggered off something in my head that's all.
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