Ferrari as an investment

[kingstanding]

Just over 4 years ago I bought a 360 Modena and its value has now almost doubled which is a much better return on investment than I could have obtained from traditional investments. As prices generally seem to be still rising does anyone have thoughts on which model might be a good bet going forward? I have a budget up to £100k.

[johnnyreggae]

Not convinced now is the time but 308 Carb or 328 GTB perhaps

If this is as well as your 360 be prepared for the total value to reduce to substantially

[kingstanding]

ok thanks. The prospective new car would be in addition to the 360.

[Ferruccio]

kingstanding said:

its value has now almost doubled which is a much better return on investment than I could have obtained from traditional investments.

No "return on investment" until the cash is in the bank.
Prices can go down as well as up.

[Slickhillsy]

Ferruccio said:

No "return on investment" until the cash is in the bank.
Prices can go down as well as up.

Thanks for the lesson in GCE maths!

[simonr100]

I also have been contemplating buying a Ferrari or Lamborghini to go with my Aston but I am hesitant incase the bubble bursts...........
I just want to enjoy the car but worrying if it will lose lots of money. I am holding off until the winter to see what the market does. I wish I had the balls to buy now

[WCZ]

now isn't a good time imo unless you're talking about a new ltd edition @ RRP (TDF etc)

[davek_964]

simonr100 said:

I also have been contemplating buying a Ferrari or Lamborghini to go with my Aston but I am hesitant incase the bubble bursts...........
I just want to enjoy the car but worrying if it will lose lots of money. I am holding off until the winter to see what the market does. I wish I had the balls to buy now

Do you live somewhere other than the UK? I thought February was winter?

[TISPKJ]

The classics like 246,and the special cars Enzo - 599 GTO - speciale will continue to rise / hold value.
its the other old cr@p that has been dragged up along with them that will be the problem, if I had to give an answer then a 599 or manual 430 wouldn't be a bad shout however both have gone up to the tune of around 30k in the last year.

[SL550M]

OP. I'd chime in with a shout-out for the 599 (although as you'll see from my profile there is some bias at work here!). It's an epic car. I'd been watching values for a while and low spec cars with 30-40k miles seemed to bottom out at around £85-90k last summer and they're still pretty much at that level now. All the nice spec cars didn't ever really drop below £100k as far as I could tell, at least not at Ferrari main dealers which is where I was looking, so the values there have been quite stable in the last six months rather than spiking. Low mileage HGTE cars are up a little, but not sure by as much as £30k. With that Enzo engine up front I don't think they're ever going to be a bad bet, but as always with cars it's best simply to 'buy, drive & enjoy' rather than pin your hopes on price appreciation.

[MDL111]

TISPKJ said:

The classics like 246,and the special cars Enzo - 599 GTO - speciale will continue to rise / hold value.
its the other old cr@p that has been dragged up along with them that will be the problem, if I had to give an answer then a 599 or manual 430 wouldn't be a bad shout however both have gone up to the tune of around 30k in the last year.

Currently i would also be a little worried about the limited editions - F40s and F50s were 300-400 euros less than a decade ago, enzos could be had for 700 and 599 gtos for 300 euros ... All of those are a lot higher right now.

Stuff like a manual 430 is probably nice to own, but is it really collectable - not convinced - I think this is a just a craze of today - if I want a manual I can just buy a 360 or a 355, plenty around - compared to a 488 they will all be slow. Not convinced real collectors will be adding a standard 430 with a manual to their collection - and uktimately those are the people that would have to drive proper price increaes as the drivers will eventually fall away due to cost / worry of destroying value by driving the car

I think the entire car market might be overheating, so would mot buy as investment more to enjoy - at least then it does not hurt as much if values go down

[simonr100]

davek_964 said:

Do you live somewhere other than the UK? I thought February was winter?

By saying I will hold off until winter to see if prices fall then I clearly mean Nov/Dec

[davek_964]

simonr100 said:

davek_964 said:

Do you live somewhere other than the UK? I thought February was winter?

By saying I will hold off until winter to see if prices fall then I clearly mean Nov/Dec

I don't think you "clearly" meant anything - although the vast majority are, not everybody on PH is from the UK so it was a genuine question.

In any case, it seems like an odd decision given that we are currently in winter. If prices are affected by the season - which I agree they usually are, but don't seem to have been in the normal way this winter - it's only likely that they would go up in summer and then drop back down to what they are now isn't it? Why do you think they're likely to be lower next winter than this, unless there is a massive crash in between?

[TISPKJ]

MDL111 said:

TISPKJ said:

The classics like 246,and the special cars Enzo - 599 GTO - speciale will continue to rise / hold value.
its the other old cr@p that has been dragged up along with them that will be the problem, if I had to give an answer then a 599 or manual 430 wouldn't be a bad shout however both have gone up to the tune of around 30k in the last year.

Currently i would also be a little worried about the limited editions - F40s and F50s were 300-400 euros less than a decade ago, enzos could be had for 700 and 599 gtos for 300 euros ... All of those are a lot higher right now.

Stuff like a manual 430 is probably nice to own, but is it really collectable - not convinced - I think this is a just a craze of today - if I want a manual I can just buy a 360 or a 355, plenty around - compared to a 488 they will all be slow. Not convinced real collectors will be adding a standard 430 with a manual to their collection - and uktimately those are the people that would have to drive proper price increaes as the drivers will eventually fall away due to cost / worry of destroying value by driving the car

I think the entire car market might be overheating, so would mot buy as investment more to enjoy - at least then it does not hurt as much if values go down

I don't disagree at all hence saying "if I had to give an answer" and had to spend a 100k budget

[simonr100]

davek_964 said:

I don't think you "clearly" meant anything - although the vast majority are, not everybody on PH is from the UK so it was a genuine question.

In any case, it seems like an odd decision given that we are currently in winter. If prices are affected by the season - which I agree they usually are, but don't seem to have been in the normal way this winter - it's only likely that they would go up in summer and then drop back down to what they are now isn't it? Why do you think they're likely to be lower next winter than this, unless there is a massive crash in between?

We are about to be in Spring.......
Yes I believe prices may fall so I am nervous about spending £150k-£250k of savings on a car that is in a bubble. How much higher prices go before the bubble pops is what worries me.

[davek_964]

simonr100 said:

We are about to be in Spring.......
Yes I believe prices may fall so I am nervous about spending £150k-£250k of savings on a car that is in a bubble. How much higher prices go before the bubble pops is what worries me.

Yep, I'm inclined to agree. I don't think the current prices are sustainable long term, and it's hard to guess if / when they'll drop. I find myself browsing McLarens from time to time, and they might actually be a safer bet in some ways - the brand immaturity seems to have protected them from the bubble a bit, so conversely they might also be protected a bit if the market corrects itself.
I wouldn't be willing to buy 348 / 360 / 430 for their current prices - they seem a bit inflated to me (and even aside from whether they would subsequently drop, not actually worth that much money in my opinion).

[simonr100]

davek_964 said:

Yep, I'm inclined to agree. I don't think the current prices are sustainable long term, and it's hard to guess if / when they'll drop. I find myself browsing McLarens from time to time, and they might actually be a safer bet in some ways - the brand immaturity seems to have protected them from the bubble a bit, so conversely they might also be protected a bit if the market corrects itself.
I wouldn't be willing to buy 348 / 360 / 430 for their current prices - they seem a bit inflated to me (and even aside from whether they would subsequently drop, not actually worth that much money in my opinion).

I agree, I am toying with buying a Testarossa or Diablo. I don't have enough knowledge to know if these are currently cheap, expensive or just right.

[d16rr]

simonr100 said:

I agree, I am toying with buying a Testarossa or Diablo. I don't have enough knowledge to know if these are currently cheap, expensive or just right.

Good luck with that, hope you don't forget to factor in the running costs. TR is rubbish to drive and is imo one of the cars that has been dragged up.

[rubystone]

simonr100 said:

I agree, I am toying with buying a Testarossa or Diablo. I don't have enough knowledge to know if these are currently cheap, expensive or just right.

Arguably they've both caught up and re now priced "right". They traded in the £30ks for nigh on a decade (boggo Diablos, of course and non 512 TRs) and have now been dragged up by their more illustrious brethren. Lot of lhd TRs around right now but Diablos are scarcer in either lhd or rhd.

Both are a big commitment though, both in terms of physical size (and width!) and in maintenance overheads. Plenty of low mileage TRs haven't been serviced every year for example and are likely to need recommissioning.

[550man]

Odd. The quality of the driving experience is not even mentioned. Not even as a factor to take into account. Instead, just this concern about whether the bubble is going to burst. The irony is, is that it is these types of purchases that fuel the bubble. So, as long as there are more of you who want to continue 'investing' then the prices will keep going up...

Sorry I know I sound grumpy and probably just having a bad day.. I just found the thread thoroughly depressing. Please bear in mind n mind that these cars are meant for driving. No one wants to lose a load of cash but what better way to suffer a loss as if you have to than by driving something you love and which is rewarding.