430 16m worth the premium?

[Bobbywboy]

I came to the Ferrari fold a couple years ago having owned lots of Astons and jags old and new when I decided to buy a 360 spider and how I love this car. I think it's very special. Having just sold a DB5 I am in the lucky position of having some cash to spare although I don't know whether to go classic again maybe with a Dino or just buy something nice and easy (and much cheaper like a XK140).
However I was talking to a dealer who recommended I buy (he just happens to have one) a 430 16m spider. He says they are special, and a bulletproof investment due to performance and small numbers - he reckoned that only about 40 red cars are in the uk.
Given the huge hike over a standard car or even a 458 I wondered what the community thinks of this suggestion.
Thanks

[MDL111]

I guess it depends on if you think we are in bubble territory on some of these cars or not. I would make sure you like the car, just on case it does lose value.

I personally would rather have a 550 barchetta - manual and V12 - also even fewer built. I think they are similar money as a 16m.

I assume a speciale A is way more expensive? If not, that might be a better bet thqn the 16m as it is the last N/A 8 cylinder car

[Russell996]

16M is a wonderful car, the SF2 gearbox is simply sublime and there is nothing better roof up or especially roof down - few things compare to 5 lit LED's and a 60ms gear change at 8000+ rpm!

[Bobbywboy]

Many thanks the red car looks splendid. Good advice about buying because u like it not because it may appreciate this certainly is the case with modern Astons - I haven't any feel for how this particular model has moved in the last year although the dealer was very bullish about future prospects. Thanks for the suggestion of other models I will see what's around I was tending towards something a bit older rather than more up to date models as I did think a 458 was just a bit big

[WCZ]

they're nice but @ 350k for a rhd example a 458 spec + 50k change makes more sense imo

[jtremlett]

Bobbywboy said:

...although the dealer was very bullish about future prospects...

Dealer talks up car he happens to have in stock shocker!! To paraphrase the late Mandy Rice-Davies, well he would say that wouldn't he.

Quite right about buying a car you like not one you think will make you money.

Jonathan

[allister]

Bobbywboy said:

I came to the Ferrari fold a couple years ago having owned lots of Astons and jags old and new when I decided to buy a 360 spider and how I love this car. I think it's very special. Having just sold a DB5 I am in the lucky position of having some cash to spare although I don't know whether to go classic again maybe with a Dino or just buy something nice and easy (and much cheaper like a XK140).
However I was talking to a dealer who recommended I buy (he just happens to have one) a 430 16m spider. He says they are special, and a bulletproof investment due to performance and small numbers - he reckoned that only about 40 red cars are in the uk.
Given the huge hike over a standard car or even a 458 I wondered what the community thinks of this suggestion.
Thanks

Hi Bobby

If you want my advice, buy a Red, F430 Spider with Manual Transmission (it may take a little time to find one) - As with the 16M only very low numbers were produced, around 50-60 in UK RHD that were colour Red.

This is what I did in April last year - It will cost you a fraction of the 16M Spider and give you at least 90% of the fun - Also, if we are in experiencing a bubble which is going to burst (which I think we may see on some cars but not this one), you'll be far better protected and reduce your risk considerably with a standard F430 Spider Manual.

If you want to see what's happened with the F430 Manual market in the last 12 months, see Voicey's price watch by clicking on the link below and going to page 17 for the most recent results:

Whatever you decide to do, have fun!

Allister

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by allister on Tuesday 16th February 17:41

[Pork]

Bobbywboy said:

I came to the Ferrari fold a couple years ago having owned lots of Astons and jags old and new when I decided to buy a 360 spider and how I love this car. I think it's very special. Having just sold a DB5 I am in the lucky position of having some cash to spare although I don't know whether to go classic again maybe with a Dino or just buy something nice and easy (and much cheaper like a XK140).
However I was talking to a dealer who recommended I buy (he just happens to have one) a 430 16m spider. He says they are special, and a bulletproof investment due to performance and small numbers - he reckoned that only about 40 red cars are in the uk.
Given the huge hike over a standard car or even a 458 I wondered what the community thinks of this suggestion.
Thanks

Is the dealer regulated and approved to give investment advice?

Either way, a lovely dilemma to have. For me, I'd take a Speciale for that sort of money but that is without considering investment potential.

[Bobbywboy]

Thank u for your observations and advice the research continues (and thoughts also please)
really appreciate your perspective
All good fun aren't we lucky!

[allister]

Bobbywboy said:

Thank u for your observations and advice the research continues (and thoughts also please)
really appreciate your perspective
All good fun aren't we lucky!

We're all very lucky - Let us know what you decide.

[Kyodo]

OP, bearing in mind you love the 360, is it worth considering a Challenge Stradale?
I'm sure you know your cars way too much to get sucked into this two vs three pedal rubbish ;-)

[cgt2]

458 Speciale is a to my mind the best car Ferrari have made in decades.

If you can buy one of those I wouldn't even consider anything else. Any of the 430 iterations are quite dated in comparison.

[Bobbywboy]

Crumbs have spent hours looking at the options and suggestions and what's available there are some lovely cars out there. I have spotted two both quite local and wondered what we think
1) 458 Italia 11000 miles @£145k
2) 430 scud 20000 miles @£190k
I think both will drive wonderfully ... So taking into account all the usuals which would we have
I do appreciate I have drifted away from a 16m .... Dilemma's dilemma's ...but this lets me persuade my admin manager (wife) that keeping the 360 spider with one of these makes financial sense

[Flugplatz]

Bobbywboy said:

1) 458 Italia 11000 miles @£145k
2) 430 scud 20000 miles @£190k

Neither of those cars are investments.

[Slickhillsy]

Flugplatz said:

Bobbywboy said:

2) 430 scud 20000 miles @£190k

Neither of those cars are investments.

Enlighten us with your man maths as to how you don't think this isn't an investment car?

[Slickhillsy]

Flugplatz said:

Bobbywboy said:

1) 458 Italia 11000 miles @£145k
2) 430 scud 20000 miles @£190k

Neither of those cars are investments.

Actually I'm even going to add the 458 back in... These are (as we all know) stunning cars and if something like like a 308 GT4 Dino can now be classed as 'investable' the 458 sure as well can / will (sure there may be still some depreciation to be had but possibly not for longer - they will be looked upon as one of the greats)

But what does the market know... Please enlighten us!

[schaeffs]

Slickhillsy said:

Actually I'm even going to add the 458 back in... These are (as we all know) stunning cars and if something like like a 308 GT4 Dino can now be classed as 'investable' the 458 sure as well can / will (sure there may be still some depreciation to be had but possibly not for longer - they will be looked upon as one of the greats)

But what does the market know... Please enlighten us!

I'll answer that. They are both investment cars IMO. Why?

- they are intoxicatingly wonderful cars from arguably the best car manufacturer ever
- they were made in "relatively" small numbers (Scud smaller than 458)
- they are a brilliant blend of modern drive-ability whilst retaining some older school charm
- critically - they will increase/hold/decrease their value better than other cars of the same ilk - and you get to drive and enjoy them whilst they are doing so...

I have driven both extensively and own one of them - and I decided Scud. The decisions for the Scud was based on my view that the Scud will do a little better investment wise in the next few years and I love the gearbox and rawness of the Scud as it feels like a racecar for the road. But the 458 is also a viable option as well - it just depends on what you want as they both have their good and (slightly) less good points...

[Flugplatz]

Slickhillsy said:

Enlighten us with your man maths as to how you don't think this isn't an investment car?

When the bubble bursts, which it will, only ultra ultra low mileage Scuds will ever enter 200K plus territory.

I've followed Ferrari values for 35 years and seen the boom and bust cycle a few times and was just sharing my opinion.

I had a Scud 5 years ago and it was fun but the build quality was terrible and forced me out of ownership.

[Rocco1]

Flugplatz said:

When the bubble bursts, which it will, only ultra ultra low mileage Scuds will ever enter 200K plus territory.

I've followed Ferrari values for 35 years and seen the boom and bust cycle a few times and was just sharing my opinion.

I had a Scud 5 years ago and it was fun but the build quality was terrible and forced me out of ownership.

I agree the build quality is cr@p,by the way what do you consider ultra low mileage?
I do know of one that exchanged hands for £180k with 17,000 miles

[Juno]

I bought this instead,just as special but hopefully less likely to see the bubble burst