F430 LHD - Buying advice

[FFM]

Hi all,

As this is my first post, a quick intro is a must as I've been reading the forum for quite a while and found the content very useful. I currently own a manual AM Vantage '09 and I am looking to buy an F430, thus the reason I am writing.

I did some due-diligence on the market (a big thank you to Aldous Voice for the F430 monthly market watch), LHD pros/cons market and the F430 in itself.
Aside from passion, my main aim is to buy the F430 for occasional use. Although, minimising the n. of negative "surprises" (i.e. big ticket maintenance etc.) and the drop in the car value are high priorities, too.

The budget I plan to invest drives me to consider buying the car from an official European dealer (likely to be in Italy), so I can also have the peace of mind of the Official Ferrari Warranty. Thereafter, I plan to register the car in UK using a specialised company (btw, any suggestion here?)

I'd like to understand whether, based on the experience of those of you who did source the car from Europe, the concept of buying abroad makes sense operationally and financially, for this particular car.

Specifically, do you think I can find a LHD F1-box Coupe, decent spec, 10k miles, FFSH, 1-2 owners max, let's assume in Red for c.a. £70-2k (that will include the cost of transportation, COC, etc.) here in the UK and save time and effort? Based on my research, an equivalent RHD car in the official dealer network is advertised at £95-100k.

It is also likely that, the same LHD car, if sourced from Uk, won't have the Ferrari warranty as probably to be found not in the official Ferrari Network..

For sure I will have more questions, but for now I am just curious to understand what do you guys think?

Thanks a lot,
F

[johnnyreggae]

There's a bit of import advice here and I think there were a few other 430 import threads around then http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[allister]

It's just my opinion, but if it were me, I'd rather try and raise another £8 - £10k and buy a UK RHD car - Of course it will be slightly higher mileage than the 10k miles car you're hoping for but it will at least be RHD and more importantly, all the pitfalls and hassles will be removed..... Just thinking about sorting all this stuff out gives me headache!!

[FFM]

johnnyreggae said:

There's a bit of import advice here and I think there were a few other 430 import threads around then http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Thank you

[MingtheMerciless]

I started out on this route trying to buy a 458 LHD on the continent and met an astonishingly varied range of crooks and implausible people and ended up giving up and buying RHD in the UK (after one false start with a dealership with a terrible reputation on PH - wish I had searched here, who told me that they were keeping my deposit after I said it failed inspection because the F dealer inspection revealed some parts fitted outside the F dealership network which the selling dealer couldn't explain for or me - i.e. was it a light bulb or the whole front end, and I had to get solicitors involved). It may be different if you just give a Ferrari dealer the cash they want for an approved car but you may not save all that much over an RHD car.

So I think buy RHD in the UK. There are cheaper LHD ones available here too with a discount over RHD.

[FFM]

allister said:

It's just my opinion, but if it were me, I'd rather try and raise another £8 - £10k and buy a UK RHD car - Of course it will be slightly higher mileage than the 10k miles car you're hoping for but it will at least be RHD and more importantly, all the pitfalls and hassles will be removed..... Just thinking about sorting all this stuff out gives me headache!!

Some feedbacks I got from official dealer is to focus more on cars below 50k km for increased peace of mind, some others suggested to look for fresher examples (2008 onwards). I was looking at the option you suggested a month ago but seems now I will have to budget more likely >£15 to get a RHD.

Just to confirm, are you guys aware of any improvements brought to F430 on >2008MY ? Aside the CCM Brakes as a standard, were there any additional updates to mechanic, F1 box, manifolds, interior styling etc.?

Thanks a lot
F

[voicey]

FFM said:

Some feedbacks I got from official dealer is to focus more on cars below 50k km for increased peace of mind, some others suggested to look for fresher examples (2008 onwards). I was looking at the option you suggested a month ago but seems now I will have to budget more likely >£15 to get a RHD.

Just to confirm, are you guys aware of any improvements brought to F430 on >2008MY ? Aside the CCM Brakes as a standard, were there any additional updates to mechanic, F1 box, manifolds, interior styling etc.?

Thanks a lot
F

There weren't many changes to the F430 during the production run - most of the niggles were ironed out with the 360. Off the top of my head the only differences that I can think of are:

- Manifolds updated (most cars have had them done by now)
- Exhaust brackets updated (most already done)
- CCM as standard late 2007
- Battery charger supplied as standard on later cars
- F1 pump was changed in 2006 (can be retrofitted)
- TCU software was changed in late 2007
- Front wheel arch liners have an additional fastener on later cars
- E-Diff sensor and soleniod are wrapped in silver heat shield on later cars
- Dash ECU software was changed in late 2007

[JW82]

As a useful comparable for you, this just came up for sale through H.R Owen, a Rosso 2008 LHD 430 F1
http://www.hrowen.co.uk/used-stock/4939/

[f1ten]

i have done exactly this. I brought back a 430 from Europe. By luck and a lot of looking around and then moving very quickly, I bought one that still has a factory extended warranty. Although frankly this was not a deal breaker as I would have happily bought in at the low level of the market.

Condition is the key and the harder part is finding one with the right service history over in Europe. Im saying this really as I think the exit route of the car is important rather than my own peace of mind on whether or not the services are correct. I say this as sorry, but we all know of UK main dealers than frankly don't do the work which they have been paid for, so being hypocritical, main dealer stamps don't mean much to me except for resale!

is the time, energy and hassle worth it... depends really what your motivations are:
I love euro road trips, LHD comes in to play here plus the actual fun of the going over to look around and fetch it... its all a learning experience and fun to me.
Cheaper - point here is really that I think UK is overpriced rather than the euro cars being cheap - in otherwords Im convinced pricing will correct for RHD and I would rather be sat on a cheaper product than lose money blindly - I might of course be wrong.
Hassle and time delays- yes it requires some travelling to Europe, yes it requires checking out, yes it requires probably driving it back in 1-2 days, yes it then requires to sit in your garage or then driven up for 3 weeks to the import specialist (as I used). So I only got to drive it twice before it went to get UK registered - a small delay to get something Im very pleased with.

So to sum up, if you don't speak French, Italian, German and if you don't have CASH, you don't have 2-3-4 weekends to spare to look and then sort out then my advice is stick to UK or even UK LHD already imported... If you fancy a learning experience, a nice road trip, some fun, hard work and save a bit of money then go for it. Will I do it again - YES without question

[_Superleggera_]

I brought over 2 LHD drive F430's from Italy in November . Happy to help you out with some advice regarding exchanging money, Shipping, COC and what to look out for. It's what I do.

Thanks

Joseph


Oh and I should add, the exchange rate is falling rapidly at the moment. We were at 1.40 EUR to GBP before christmas and now we are looking at 1.31.

Edited by _Superleggera_ on Friday 15th January 11:54

Edited by _Superleggera_ on Friday 15th January 11:56

[FFM]

_Superleggera_ said:

I brought over 2 LHD drive F430's from Italy in November . Happy to help you out with some advice regarding exchanging money, Shipping, COC and what to look out for. It's what I do.

Thanks

Joseph


Oh and I should add, the exchange rate is falling rapidly at the moment. We were at 1.40 EUR to GBP before christmas and now we are looking at 1.31.

Edited by _Superleggera_ on Friday 15th January 11:54

Edited by _Superleggera_ on Friday 15th January 11:56

Hi Joseph, I tried to send you an email, did you received it by any chance?

[FFM]

voicey said:

There weren't many changes to the F430 during the production run - most of the niggles were ironed out with the 360. Off the top of my head the only differences that I can think of are:

- Manifolds updated (most cars have had them done by now)
- Exhaust brackets updated (most already done)
- CCM as standard late 2007
- Battery charger supplied as standard on later cars
- F1 pump was changed in 2006 (can be retrofitted)
- TCU software was changed in late 2007
- Front wheel arch liners have an additional fastener on later cars
- E-Diff sensor and soleniod are wrapped in silver heat shield on later cars
- Dash ECU software was changed in late 2007

Great thanks, do you think the price of these "fresher" versions attract a small premium <late'07 MYs? I've heard these have a ~10% premium over early model (with steel brakes). Fact or rumours?

Thank you,
F

[_Superleggera_]

FFM said:

Hi Joseph, I tried to send you an email, did you received it by any chance?

I haven't I'm afraid. Did you send it via PH or via our website?

Kind Regards

Joseph

[FFM]

_Superleggera_ said:

I haven't I'm afraid. Did you send it via PH or via our website?

Kind Regards

Joseph

On PH through a function called "Email Me" which appeared once I clicked on your profile. Maybe wrong way?

[paulmnz]

I bought one in november (at 1.41 exchange rate). for the same reasons as your looking at it - occasional use, mostly euro driving, don't want to loose a lot of money. I do about 5,000 miles a year driving in europe on the 'wrong side of the road' in RHD cars, so have no real problem with driving a LHD here in the UK for the times I do want to use it here. As to the LHD effect on prices in the UK, I think you need to buy well - going to the hassle of importing it yourself should mean your 'up' to start with against the other already imported LHD cars in the UK so you have some wiggle room when you sell.

I bought mine privately in Germany from a lovely older gentleman, it was his pride and joy - he was a full-on ferrari club guy with lanyards, hats, umbrellas and ferrari signs in his garage where the car parks... him and his wife were sad to see it go (although he is replacing it with a 458 I believe). He lives less than a mile from the autobahn, so needless to say I was able to confirm it works correctly at high speed.. Mine is a very good mid 2007 car with only 2 owners, ferrari serivce history, low miles and most of the expensive options including carbon brakes and the carbon race seats which are rare in UK cars - it was only registered for use in the summer months (they have special 'summer' plates). I bought it for significantly less money than the cheapest low-spec high miles 2005 RHD car would have cost. This is including all my import costs (flights, rental car, hotels, eurotunnel, money tranfer fees, fuel to get back, german and uk registration). For resale, I figure its better to have a desirable LHD car than a bargain-basement spec leggy RHD one - time will tell if I'm right!

I bought the first car I saw in person after about 3 months of research and phoning up about cars. Germany in my opinion is the best / easiest place to buy from, I did also enquire about french, spanish and italian cars. Germans are quite literal about everything including how they describe cars and service history, unlike some other dealers / individuals I spoke to in other countries Doing your research will save a lot of money with wasted trips - I can see how lots of trips to see dud cars would erode the financial upside from sourcing a car yourself. German history is also quite detailed with actual 'registered owner' docs unlike our V5 'keeper' docs and the TUV (MOT) test is also more strict.

I would agree that europeans tend to service their cars differently - based on mileage - most I enquired about had official ferrari stamps at the correct mileage intervals, but not 'yearly' like UK cars.

As for the buying process - I arranged to see my car / test drive it one weekday, negotiated a deal, paid a deposit... came back in two weeks after picking the best possible exchange rate (I used transferwise to pay btw, saved over £2k on bank fees / inflated rates).

Decided to drive it back to the UK myself as an ideal 'lemon test' - easier to sort out any problems while the car is still in europe. They helped me with the German export paperwork (you have to register it on export plates which is quite hard to figure out without speaking German).

I was planning to use a specialist to do the import work, but I've actually done it all myself - it's very straight forward. a specialist can save some time, but I couldn't justify the cost in the end especially at this time of year when I'm in no hurry to drive it. Order a free 'importing a car pack' from the DVLA and see for yourself before getting someone else to do it.

BTW, If you need any advice on what to look for inspecting a car yourself (or need someone to look at a car for you) - Voicey is your man, he knows the F430 inside out and clearly has a handle on values. He has been very helpful to me and it was his value index and website that got me interested in buying one.

[voicey]

FFM said:

Great thanks, do you think the price of these "fresher" versions attract a small premium <late'07 MYs? I've heard these have a ~10% premium over early model (with steel brakes). Fact or rumours?

Thank you,
F

If you are asking if it's worth paying a premium for a late car vs an early car when both have CCMs, then I would say no. However, if you're comparing an early steel braked car with a late CCM car then it's worth paying the extra for the brakes - they are immense.

[cgt2]

voicey said:

If you are asking if it's worth paying a premium for a late car vs an early car when both have CCMs, then I would say no. However, if you're comparing an early steel braked car with a late CCM car then it's worth paying the extra for the brakes - they are immense.

Absolutely correct, braking is far better and steering feel is much improved too, no doubt due to lower unsprung weight.

[_Superleggera_]

FFM said:

On PH through a function called "Email Me" which appeared once I clicked on your profile. Maybe wrong way?

That's strange I normally receive those. I don't wish to put my business email on PH but if you look at my profile there is a link to my website where you will be able to contact me. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[anonymous-user]

Currently based in Germany and I was initially looking at an F430 to bring home with me in a few years due to the 1.40 exchange rate (now around 1.3 ...)

Anyway, remember they are not as fastidious in servicing as we are here, many dealers describe cars as FSH which they are, if you only consider mileage and not age.

The German are quite easy to deal with and it's rare to find an educated German without basic - intermediate level English!

Good luck with your search, I had to stop as manuals moved out of my budget.

Also, try and find one with 18-24 months TÜV, it's a much stricter test than our MOT and should at least give an indication of the cars current condition (functionally).

[FFM]

_Superleggera_ said:

FFM said:

On PH through a function called "Email Me" which appeared once I clicked on your profile. Maybe wrong way?

That's strange I normally receive those. I don't wish to put my business email on PH but if you look at my profile there is a link to my website where you will be able to contact me. Sorry for the inconvenience.

No prob, I ll send again thank you