i should be whipped senseless with a knoted rope
Discussion
i've just put the car in for service and it turns out in the last 12 months i have amassed a frankly disgusting 900 miles.....
i promise to try harder in the coming year but there is a creeping dread in me about loading miles on,. i have been one of the staunchest critics of garage queens in the past but this car (manual 430 rosso/crema) has gone from being used as a commuter to something i am becoming increasingly aware of is a very rare beast....and i seem to be treating it more and more with kid gloves.
anyway, as the inevitable conversation about values came about i was pretty shocked as to the mood.
my man seems to think there is such a clamour for manual 430s at the moment that most of the usual suspects are phoning up asking him to find cars. he was of the opinion that i could pretty much do a straight swap for a 458 if i wanted to go that route.
the 458 is something i covet greatly but when i look at production numbers versus the tiny amount of manual 430s it isn't the no brainer i once thought it was. given that i am in no rush to sell i am starting to feel like even if we are in a bit of a bubble at the moment and it pops they aren't making any more!....and it may not fall as hard as some people on these boards seem to think.
so, what says the pistonheads massive?? would you stick or would you twist? if you had asked me 12 months ago i would have looked at you funny had you not said 458 all day.but it doesn't seem that simple any more.
the basic economic law of supply and demand is probably the biggest deciding factor for me here
i promise to try harder in the coming year but there is a creeping dread in me about loading miles on,. i have been one of the staunchest critics of garage queens in the past but this car (manual 430 rosso/crema) has gone from being used as a commuter to something i am becoming increasingly aware of is a very rare beast....and i seem to be treating it more and more with kid gloves.
anyway, as the inevitable conversation about values came about i was pretty shocked as to the mood.
my man seems to think there is such a clamour for manual 430s at the moment that most of the usual suspects are phoning up asking him to find cars. he was of the opinion that i could pretty much do a straight swap for a 458 if i wanted to go that route.
the 458 is something i covet greatly but when i look at production numbers versus the tiny amount of manual 430s it isn't the no brainer i once thought it was. given that i am in no rush to sell i am starting to feel like even if we are in a bit of a bubble at the moment and it pops they aren't making any more!....and it may not fall as hard as some people on these boards seem to think.
so, what says the pistonheads massive?? would you stick or would you twist? if you had asked me 12 months ago i would have looked at you funny had you not said 458 all day.but it doesn't seem that simple any more.
the basic economic law of supply and demand is probably the biggest deciding factor for me here
The evidence is clear
.....sensitive about putting miles on it.
.....getting like enjoyment from it - other than through its rareness/value
......afraid if you sell you will miss out (miss out what - owning it or drving it)
Afraid the only conclusion is....
It's now a investment/collectable
Commiserations on your loss of a car you used to love....congratulations on your new investment...
.....sensitive about putting miles on it.
.....getting like enjoyment from it - other than through its rareness/value
......afraid if you sell you will miss out (miss out what - owning it or drving it)
Afraid the only conclusion is....
It's now a investment/collectable
Commiserations on your loss of a car you used to love....congratulations on your new investment...
tuscaneer said:
don't get me wrong....i love it to bits, it's without a doubt the best car i have ever owned. i like the idea of a 458.....but not if in 10 years it's worth a third of a manual 430!!
Suppose it depends on how much you value the 2/3 of 'enjoyment' you'd suffer from actually driving a Ferrari - or several as I can't imagine lasting 10 years with just one!Have you driven a 458 Italia to confirm you still want one? If not, I'd stick with the F430.
On the other hand, any normally aspirated Ferrari V8 might be coveted over the new turbo cars in years to come so a 458 might turn out to be an investment too. Sadly my tea leaves don't predict that far ahead.
Anyway ... how can 900 miles be considered commuter mileage!
On the other hand, any normally aspirated Ferrari V8 might be coveted over the new turbo cars in years to come so a 458 might turn out to be an investment too. Sadly my tea leaves don't predict that far ahead.
Anyway ... how can 900 miles be considered commuter mileage!
red_duke said:
Have you driven a 458 Italia to confirm you still want one? If not, I'd stick with the F430.
On the other hand, any normally aspirated Ferrari V8 might be coveted over the new turbo cars in years to come so a 458 might turn out to be an investment too. Sadly my tea leaves don't predict that far ahead.
Anyway ... how can 900 miles be considered commuter mileage!
Yeah the more I think about it the more it will be staying regardless of perceived nutty prices at the moment.long term is the plan....On the other hand, any normally aspirated Ferrari V8 might be coveted over the new turbo cars in years to come so a 458 might turn out to be an investment too. Sadly my tea leaves don't predict that far ahead.
Anyway ... how can 900 miles be considered commuter mileage!
I bought the car about 3 years ago with super low miles on it and put 10,000 on it commuting in year one.
year after a chunk less and last year a paltry 900.
Definitely a few more next year!
+1 for 458 being night and day different (sorry)
I can't be the only person who finds it depressing that someone who was previously enjoying driving their car is now worried that driving it will be unpalatable from a financial perspective.
I think, OP, you need to think about whether you'd be happy to keep the car as an investment, or whether you actually want to drive it. Values are tough to predict but are usually never particularly reassuring thoughts, I don't think there is any sure way of knowing whether or not they have already plateaued, whether they will dive, or hover around where they are. One would think though that these comparisons are being made across several models now, and it would seem logical that they can't all share the same "investment space".. 355, 360, 430, 458 - which are the classics and which are "merely mass produced" ?
If you want to enjoy it, perhaps you should sell it and buy something you can. Alien logic on the face of it, but perhaps not.
I can't be the only person who finds it depressing that someone who was previously enjoying driving their car is now worried that driving it will be unpalatable from a financial perspective.
I think, OP, you need to think about whether you'd be happy to keep the car as an investment, or whether you actually want to drive it. Values are tough to predict but are usually never particularly reassuring thoughts, I don't think there is any sure way of knowing whether or not they have already plateaued, whether they will dive, or hover around where they are. One would think though that these comparisons are being made across several models now, and it would seem logical that they can't all share the same "investment space".. 355, 360, 430, 458 - which are the classics and which are "merely mass produced" ?
If you want to enjoy it, perhaps you should sell it and buy something you can. Alien logic on the face of it, but perhaps not.
OP I understand your dilemma! I had a GT3.2 RS and sold it to get into a 458 for this very reason. I bought the car to drive, and not feel guilty about driving it. Yes the 458 will depreciate, yes the RS will appreciate but only if I treat it as a painting rather than a car; I can't sit and simply admire while not daring to drive it in case it lowers the value.
PS if you like driving, the 458 is a quantum leap over the 430. I also doubt, at this point in time, you can flip from a 430 manual to a 458 without throwing 40-45k at the swap but I may be wrong?
PS if you like driving, the 458 is a quantum leap over the 430. I also doubt, at this point in time, you can flip from a 430 manual to a 458 without throwing 40-45k at the swap but I may be wrong?
Edited by Skittles001 on Tuesday 22 December 11:11
OP I understand your dilemma! I had a GT3.2 RS and sold it to get into a 458 for this very reason. I bought the car to drive, and not feel guilty about driving it. Yes the 458 will depreciate, yes the RS will appreciate but only if I treat it as a painting rather than a car; I can't sit and simply admire while not daring to drive it in case it lowers the value.
PS if you like driving, the 458 is a quantum leap over the 430. I also doubt, at this point in time, you can flip from a 430 manual to a 458 without throwing 30-35k+ at the swap for comparable condition but I may be wrong?
PS if you like driving, the 458 is a quantum leap over the 430. I also doubt, at this point in time, you can flip from a 430 manual to a 458 without throwing 30-35k+ at the swap for comparable condition but I may be wrong?
Edited by Skittles001 on Tuesday 22 December 11:12
As someone who believes that things (not just cars) should be used for their intended purpose, I can't see why you shouldn't drive a car you bought for driving and enjoy it - in a rising market a desirable Ferrari will still go up in value as you use it as long as you take care of it and don't do silly miles - you may find the additional mileage means it doesn't go up in value as much as a garage queen, or that you just don't lose any money, but it depends on how you value enjoyment vrs financial gain.
thanks for all the input guys....
i'm not terrified to drive it, moving house and a mental year at work have been the major contributing factors to lack of use.....i was actually shocked when i saw that i'd only done 900 miles as in my mind i'd probably popped another couple of thousand on at least...
....but it has crossed my mind that it would be a bit mad for me to put 10,000 miles on it like i did in the first year of ownership in any given year from now. i don't owe anything on it any more so it's not a monthly financial drain which is also a factor in not needing to sell it. it puts a big smile on my face , it's mint (i've made sure of that) and i would genuinely miss it if it went......wether i'd miss it more than i liked a 458 is another question but that feeling of letting go that open gated shift i can't help think would leave me with a sense of regret
i'm not terrified to drive it, moving house and a mental year at work have been the major contributing factors to lack of use.....i was actually shocked when i saw that i'd only done 900 miles as in my mind i'd probably popped another couple of thousand on at least...
....but it has crossed my mind that it would be a bit mad for me to put 10,000 miles on it like i did in the first year of ownership in any given year from now. i don't owe anything on it any more so it's not a monthly financial drain which is also a factor in not needing to sell it. it puts a big smile on my face , it's mint (i've made sure of that) and i would genuinely miss it if it went......wether i'd miss it more than i liked a 458 is another question but that feeling of letting go that open gated shift i can't help think would leave me with a sense of regret
tuscaneer said:
thanks for all the input guys....
i'm not terrified to drive it, moving house and a mental year at work have been the major contributing factors to lack of use.....i was actually shocked when i saw that i'd only done 900 miles as in my mind i'd probably popped another couple of thousand on at least...
....but it has crossed my mind that it would be a bit mad for me to put 10,000 miles on it like i did in the first year of ownership in any given year from now. i don't owe anything on it any more so it's not a monthly financial drain which is also a factor in not needing to sell it. it puts a big smile on my face , it's mint (i've made sure of that) and i would genuinely miss it if it went......wether i'd miss it more than i liked a 458 is another question but that feeling of letting go that open gated shift i can't help think would leave me with a sense of regret
Have you driven a 458? I never wanted an F1 box, had a manual 360, drove an F430 F1 and didn't like it. I spent a day with a 458 and all i can say is i WANT! Its awesome, is all i can say. I cant even begin to compare it to a F430. i'm not terrified to drive it, moving house and a mental year at work have been the major contributing factors to lack of use.....i was actually shocked when i saw that i'd only done 900 miles as in my mind i'd probably popped another couple of thousand on at least...
....but it has crossed my mind that it would be a bit mad for me to put 10,000 miles on it like i did in the first year of ownership in any given year from now. i don't owe anything on it any more so it's not a monthly financial drain which is also a factor in not needing to sell it. it puts a big smile on my face , it's mint (i've made sure of that) and i would genuinely miss it if it went......wether i'd miss it more than i liked a 458 is another question but that feeling of letting go that open gated shift i can't help think would leave me with a sense of regret
I'd say go test drive one, then go home and drive your F430, then makes your choice!
cgt2 said:
I've had a manual 430 and it is a wonderful car but the 458 is a whole different level!
More mass produced and will likely depreciate further but what a car.
As regards F430 v 458 available in the UK according to howmanyleft the numbers aren't too far apart - unless I'm reading it wrong? 1247 v 1535. What surprised me was how many Speciale have been registered compared to Italias - 269 v 606More mass produced and will likely depreciate further but what a car.
Yes, you should - just drive it and enjoy it! Mine's a manual and I really don't care what mileage I cover in it. I'm not going to look back and think "I'm really pleased I missed out on all that fun so I could keep the value of the car".
In my humble opinion if you get into supercars with residual value as a consideration you've got it really wrong. I see them as tools to provide enjoyment, life experiences, and above all great memories. I've put more miles on mine in one year than the last did in five.
In my humble opinion if you get into supercars with residual value as a consideration you've got it really wrong. I see them as tools to provide enjoyment, life experiences, and above all great memories. I've put more miles on mine in one year than the last did in five.
mwstewart said:
Yes, you should - just drive it and enjoy it! Mine's a manual and I really don't care what mileage I cover in it. I'm not going to look back and think "I'm really pleased I missed out on all that fun so I could keep the value of the car".
In my humble opinion if you get into supercars with residual value as a consideration you've got it really wrong. I see them as tools to provide enjoyment, life experiences, and above all great memories. I've put more miles on mine in one year than the last did in five.
Well said that man. In my humble opinion if you get into supercars with residual value as a consideration you've got it really wrong. I see them as tools to provide enjoyment, life experiences, and above all great memories. I've put more miles on mine in one year than the last did in five.
If driving is where your passion for cars came from, then drive! If not then either do the decent thing and sell it to an enthusiast, or keep it forever wondering what the car worth - as you won't realise any gains until you sell.
Edited by Anjum on Tuesday 22 December 13:24
JayK12 said:
Have you driven a 458? I never wanted an F1 box, had a manual 360, drove an F430 F1 and didn't like it. I spent a day with a 458 and all i can say is i WANT! Its awesome, is all i can say. I cant even begin to compare it to a F430.
I'd say go test drive one, then go home and drive your F430, then makes your choice!
not yet!!.....but i think i may be popping into the dealership over christmas.......i suppose it's the only way to be sure.!!I'd say go test drive one, then go home and drive your F430, then makes your choice!
purpleperil said:
As regards F430 v 458 available in the UK according to howmanyleft the numbers aren't too far apart - unless I'm reading it wrong? 1247 v 1535. What surprised me was how many Speciale have been registered compared to Italias - 269 v 606
the rarity factor is more to do with the manual box though mate, only 10% of overall production i am told. there is something about having the last manual farrari off the line that makes me all misty eyed and nostalgicmwstewart said:
Yes, you should - just drive it and enjoy it! Mine's a manual and I really don't care what mileage I cover in it. I'm not going to look back and think "I'm really pleased I missed out on all that fun so I could keep the value of the car".
In my humble opinion if you get into supercars with residual value as a consideration you've got it really wrong. I see them as tools to provide enjoyment, life experiences, and above all great memories. I've put more miles on mine in one year than the last did in five.
of course you are correct and my philosophy has always been to use them properly. ....In my humble opinion if you get into supercars with residual value as a consideration you've got it really wrong. I see them as tools to provide enjoyment, life experiences, and above all great memories. I've put more miles on mine in one year than the last did in five.
but if i had a....i don't know....a dino or a db5 for example, i certainly wouldn't thrash about in it willy nilly!
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