how to safely buy a 430?
Discussion
Bought lots of 20k cars in the past and several 80k boats, from both private individuals and brokers. Now I want to buy a 430 and am as nervous as hell of how to go about it. Looks to me as if the 430 is becoming a bit too old for the franchised dealer and is now moving into the Arthur Daly territory.
So how do I go about buying a good car at a fair price and with some real world guarantee cover afterwards? Main dealer only and pay 20k more? Or are there some non franchised dealers you can trust? And what about buying privately?
So how do I go about buying a good car at a fair price and with some real world guarantee cover afterwards? Main dealer only and pay 20k more? Or are there some non franchised dealers you can trust? And what about buying privately?
bordseye said:
Bought lots of 20k cars in the past and several 80k boats, from both private individuals and brokers. Now I want to buy a 430 and am as nervous as hell of how to go about it. Looks to me as if the 430 is becoming a bit too old for the franchised dealer and is now moving into the Arthur Daly territory.
So how do I go about buying a good car at a fair price and with some real world guarantee cover afterwards? Main dealer only and pay 20k more? Or are there some non franchised dealers you can trust? And what about buying privately?
Buying from a franchised dealer will get you a 2 year warranty. This can be added to any F430 assuming car is up to spec for approx £3.5k per year (up to 12 years old).So how do I go about buying a good car at a fair price and with some real world guarantee cover afterwards? Main dealer only and pay 20k more? Or are there some non franchised dealers you can trust? And what about buying privately?
Correct, generally only main dealers actually own stock. Not just 430's but the vast majority of Ferraris on the market through trade at the moment are SOR. A quick company check on a lot of dealers will show they have minimal assets.
It's highly amusing how many calls one gets when selling a Ferrari these days from dealers saying ''we have a buyer''..only for alleged buyer to supposedly vanish when you ask the dealer to buy the car outright in that case.
It's highly amusing how many calls one gets when selling a Ferrari these days from dealers saying ''we have a buyer''..only for alleged buyer to supposedly vanish when you ask the dealer to buy the car outright in that case.
I'm a current 430 owner and can tell you that you need to buy from a main dealer and keep the car in warranty at all times. I've had over £25k of work done under warranty over the last two years. These cars are not built well and parts will fail, it's just a matter of time. Look out for cracked exhaust manifolds, failing front ball joints, rear track end rods, exhaust silencer box and electrical faults.
Also get an independent specialist to inspect the car - there's a great guy on here by the name of voicey who comes highly recommended. He will inspect the car for a few hundred quid. Even cars from main dealers will need an inspection as most cars will never be 100% sorted as mine is
Drop me a line if you want to hear my ownership experience in more detail.
Also get an independent specialist to inspect the car - there's a great guy on here by the name of voicey who comes highly recommended. He will inspect the car for a few hundred quid. Even cars from main dealers will need an inspection as most cars will never be 100% sorted as mine is
Drop me a line if you want to hear my ownership experience in more detail.
actonktm said:
I'm a current 430 owner and can tell you that you need to buy from a main dealer and keep the car in warranty at all times. I've had over £25k of work done under warranty over the last two years. These cars are not built well and parts will fail, it's just a matter of time. Look out for cracked exhaust manifolds, failing front ball joints, rear track end rods, exhaust silencer box and electrical faults.
Also get an independent specialist to inspect the car - there's a great guy on here by the name of voicey who comes highly recommended. He will inspect the car for a few hundred quid. Even cars from main dealers will need an inspection as most cars will never be 100% sorted as mine is
Drop me a line if you want to hear my ownership experience in more detail.
That's a lot of money for the well known faults you describe.Also get an independent specialist to inspect the car - there's a great guy on here by the name of voicey who comes highly recommended. He will inspect the car for a few hundred quid. Even cars from main dealers will need an inspection as most cars will never be 100% sorted as mine is
Drop me a line if you want to hear my ownership experience in more detail.
The problem with main dealers is that most if not all will only fit Ferrari replacement parts and the ball joints, track rods ends and manifolds are all known problems with far superior aftermarket parts.
The 4 front ball joints and the track rods can be done for ~£1300 with superior aftermarket parts whereas if Ferrari change the entire wishbones it is thousands and they still won't last.
The Ferrari manifolds are a ticking timebomb that could kill your engine and the first thing I'd do if I bought one would be to replace them with aftermarket ones if not done already.
I'd find a really weill looked after, well known car privately or from a well respected independant. A PPI is an absolute must.....
mike01606 said:
actonktm said:
I'm a current 430 owner and can tell you that you need to buy from a main dealer and keep the car in warranty at all times. I've had over £25k of work done under warranty over the last two years. These cars are not built well and parts will fail, it's just a matter of time. Look out for cracked exhaust manifolds, failing front ball joints, rear track end rods, exhaust silencer box and electrical faults.
Also get an independent specialist to inspect the car - there's a great guy on here by the name of voicey who comes highly recommended. He will inspect the car for a few hundred quid. Even cars from main dealers will need an inspection as most cars will never be 100% sorted as mine is
Drop me a line if you want to hear my ownership experience in more detail.
That's a lot of money for the well known faults you describe.Also get an independent specialist to inspect the car - there's a great guy on here by the name of voicey who comes highly recommended. He will inspect the car for a few hundred quid. Even cars from main dealers will need an inspection as most cars will never be 100% sorted as mine is
Drop me a line if you want to hear my ownership experience in more detail.
The problem with main dealers is that most if not all will only fit Ferrari replacement parts and the ball joints, track rods ends and manifolds are all known problems with far superior aftermarket parts.
The 4 front ball joints and the track rods can be done for ~£1300 with superior aftermarket parts whereas if Ferrari change the entire wishbones it is thousands and they still won't last.
The Ferrari manifolds are a ticking timebomb that could kill your engine and the first thing I'd do if I bought one would be to replace them with aftermarket ones if not done already.
I'd find a really weill looked after, well known car privately or from a well respected independant. A PPI is an absolute must.....
Go aftermarket / indy and you'll replace all of the above at a fraction of the cost charged by a MD with parts often being better than OEM. Get the car inspected, if you do buy from a dealer you should get cover of some kind that will last long enough for you to find out if you've bought a lemon (assuming you put miles on it and it doesn’t become a garage queen). Once all of the more 'sensitive' items on these cars are replaced with better after market (ball joints / manifolds / ... ) you will actually have a very reliable car. Engines are bomb proof (unlike another German mark I could name) and the modern stuff is rust free. Plus the 430 is ageing just nicely which is also being reflected in prices standing strong.
Slickhillsy said:
100% agree ^^
Go aftermarket / indy and you'll replace all of the above at a fraction of the cost charged by a MD with parts often being better than OEM. Get the car inspected, if you do buy from a dealer you should get cover of some kind that will last long enough for you to find out if you've bought a lemon (assuming you put miles on it and it doesn’t become a garage queen). Once all of the more 'sensitive' items on these cars are replaced with better after market (ball joints / manifolds / ... ) you will actually have a very reliable car. Engines are bomb proof (unlike another German mark I could name) and the modern stuff is rust free. Plus the 430 is ageing just nicely which is also being reflected in prices standing strong.
But what happens when you come to sell it? You've basically got to hope that prospective buyers are well aware of the issues as well and the necessity of aftermarket parts to fix Ferrari's chocolate ones. You will have people who will believe that "the problem is fixed with the Mk2 manifolds", and they'll probably hear that line from Ferrari main dealers too. There's no question in my mind that Hills and other parts improve upon Ferrari's offerings significantly, and in the case of the manifolds fix fundamental design flaws that shouldn't even exist... but that's easy for me to say when I'm not trying to sell one of them.Go aftermarket / indy and you'll replace all of the above at a fraction of the cost charged by a MD with parts often being better than OEM. Get the car inspected, if you do buy from a dealer you should get cover of some kind that will last long enough for you to find out if you've bought a lemon (assuming you put miles on it and it doesn’t become a garage queen). Once all of the more 'sensitive' items on these cars are replaced with better after market (ball joints / manifolds / ... ) you will actually have a very reliable car. Engines are bomb proof (unlike another German mark I could name) and the modern stuff is rust free. Plus the 430 is ageing just nicely which is also being reflected in prices standing strong.
There's a bit of a weird dichotomy with F430 ownership in my opinion in that when you're owning it you'd want to have aftermarket parts that actually fix the known problems (or at least last for a reasonable period of time) for your own peace of mind, but when you come to sell you almost want the car to be totally OEM. In my limited experience trying to sell something that is already exclusive - having to answer questions straight off the bat (why you've bought aftermarket instead of OEM? "Cheaping out on maintenance?", etc) is always going to result in a knock on the number of people who actually pick up the phone to enquire as to buying it. I don't know what Ferrari main dealers attitude is like to buying in cars with aftermarket parts, but that could cut off another selling option if they aren't keen.
I also think the F430 is in a bit of a peculiar position in that regard in that it's not a classic (yet), it's a modern car both in age and looks. There would - I feel - be an expectation that things ought to just work. With the 360 and moreso the 355 I would hazard a guess that the market is more accepting of the cars having dropped out of the main dealer network, having specialist non-OEM parts fitted, etc.
Aside from all of this I wouldn't buy one of these privately without a warranty that covers the manifolds. They are, as has been expressed many times on here, a ticking time bomb.
I have to say I have read this thread with some amusement.
firstly, yes the problem with manifolds is well known and even the Mk2's fail - so fit an aftermarket set if the problem arises.
As for ball joints etc - they are just part and parcel of owning a Ferrari , and if you are unlucky enough to buy a car that needs , manifolds, clutch, ball joints and you get a 10k bill - well clearly you bought the wrong car or the purchase price should have been low to start with.
yes annual servicing is cheap, but if you cannot afford the odd 10k bill when it turns up perhaps a Ferrari is not for you
get an inspection from someone who is qualified and has loads of experience.
firstly, yes the problem with manifolds is well known and even the Mk2's fail - so fit an aftermarket set if the problem arises.
As for ball joints etc - they are just part and parcel of owning a Ferrari , and if you are unlucky enough to buy a car that needs , manifolds, clutch, ball joints and you get a 10k bill - well clearly you bought the wrong car or the purchase price should have been low to start with.
yes annual servicing is cheap, but if you cannot afford the odd 10k bill when it turns up perhaps a Ferrari is not for you
get an inspection from someone who is qualified and has loads of experience.
Edited by markst on Tuesday 27th October 12:43
Durzel said:
Slickhillsy said:
100% agree ^^
Go aftermarket / indy and you'll replace all of the above at a fraction of the cost charged by a MD with parts often being better than OEM. Get the car inspected, if you do buy from a dealer you should get cover of some kind that will last long enough for you to find out if you've bought a lemon (assuming you put miles on it and it doesn’t become a garage queen). Once all of the more 'sensitive' items on these cars are replaced with better after market (ball joints / manifolds / ... ) you will actually have a very reliable car. Engines are bomb proof (unlike another German mark I could name) and the modern stuff is rust free. Plus the 430 is ageing just nicely which is also being reflected in prices standing strong.
But what happens when you come to sell it? You've basically got to hope that prospective buyers are well aware of the issues as well and the necessity of aftermarket parts to fix Ferrari's chocolate ones. You will have people who will believe that "the problem is fixed with the Mk2 manifolds", and they'll probably hear that line from Ferrari main dealers too. There's no question in my mind that Hills and other parts improve upon Ferrari's offerings significantly, and in the case of the manifolds fix fundamental design flaws that shouldn't even exist... but that's easy for me to say when I'm not trying to sell one of them.Go aftermarket / indy and you'll replace all of the above at a fraction of the cost charged by a MD with parts often being better than OEM. Get the car inspected, if you do buy from a dealer you should get cover of some kind that will last long enough for you to find out if you've bought a lemon (assuming you put miles on it and it doesn’t become a garage queen). Once all of the more 'sensitive' items on these cars are replaced with better after market (ball joints / manifolds / ... ) you will actually have a very reliable car. Engines are bomb proof (unlike another German mark I could name) and the modern stuff is rust free. Plus the 430 is ageing just nicely which is also being reflected in prices standing strong.
There's a bit of a weird dichotomy with F430 ownership in my opinion in that when you're owning it you'd want to have aftermarket parts that actually fix the known problems (or at least last for a reasonable period of time) for your own peace of mind, but when you come to sell you almost want the car to be totally OEM. In my limited experience trying to sell something that is already exclusive - having to answer questions straight off the bat (why you've bought aftermarket instead of OEM? "Cheaping out on maintenance?", etc) is always going to result in a knock on the number of people who actually pick up the phone to enquire as to buying it. I don't know what Ferrari main dealers attitude is like to buying in cars with aftermarket parts, but that could cut off another selling option if they aren't keen.
I also think the F430 is in a bit of a peculiar position in that regard in that it's not a classic (yet), it's a modern car both in age and looks. There would - I feel - be an expectation that things ought to just work. With the 360 and moreso the 355 I would hazard a guess that the market is more accepting of the cars having dropped out of the main dealer network, having specialist non-OEM parts fitted, etc.
Aside from all of this I wouldn't buy one of these privately without a warranty that covers the manifolds. They are, as has been expressed many times on here, a ticking time bomb.
For me a large part of the journey into owning something new is the homework to understand as much as I can about the car, good and bad.
It's well documented that services provided by specialists often out perform those by main dealers, my Scud has 1 year left on factory cover, after that I wont hesitate to find a good Rardley Motors type shop to fill my service book and support it with receipts from Hill engineering. Next owner (when and if that time ever comes) having done their homework will know this is 100% acceptable no brainer way of running and maintaining the car...
If you are anxious just buy from a main dealer for an easy transaction & the peace of mind. There are still lots of F430s available from main dealers last time I checked.
I bought mine from a main dealer and would not even have considered buying privately or from an independent dealer.
I bought mine from a main dealer and would not even have considered buying privately or from an independent dealer.
When cars are SOR, how much does the dealer expect to be paid for his services. The only one I have spoken to so far indicated 8% so maintenance aside the cost of owning a 430 has to be something like 8k on top of any depreciation. Correct?
Buying through such a delare, does he take ownership of the car before selling it onto you? There is a world of difference legally between buying from a tradesman who is assumed to know what he is talking about and a private individual where you are on your own so yo speak. And who gives the guarantee. For that matter is it a proper guarantee or an insurance based thing?
Buying through such a delare, does he take ownership of the car before selling it onto you? There is a world of difference legally between buying from a tradesman who is assumed to know what he is talking about and a private individual where you are on your own so yo speak. And who gives the guarantee. For that matter is it a proper guarantee or an insurance based thing?
Just to add, as I said above part of the research is going to a few independants and talking to them to add to your knowledge.
8% - more like 4% but depends on dealer.
Anyone that buys one of these cars has researched and knows that the Hills replacement ball joints etc are far superior to Ferrari tat, ditto manifolds, would be a selling point not to have ferrari parts not the other way round.
Your transaction is between the garage and you not the seller.
Depends where you buy but TFC warrant all cars in house and stand behind the product they sell, some will offer a Mickey Mouse warranty wise thingy that wont be worth the paper its written on, same with ferrari used warranty, plenty of stories on here of manifolds not being replaced under warranty and as we know ball joints are a wearable item.
where are you based ?
8% - more like 4% but depends on dealer.
Anyone that buys one of these cars has researched and knows that the Hills replacement ball joints etc are far superior to Ferrari tat, ditto manifolds, would be a selling point not to have ferrari parts not the other way round.
Your transaction is between the garage and you not the seller.
Depends where you buy but TFC warrant all cars in house and stand behind the product they sell, some will offer a Mickey Mouse warranty wise thingy that wont be worth the paper its written on, same with ferrari used warranty, plenty of stories on here of manifolds not being replaced under warranty and as we know ball joints are a wearable item.
where are you based ?
Disagree, I found the Ferrari warranty extremely good. They even sent a technician around to my house to replace a headlight washer cover that fell off - find me an independent dealer or 3rd party warranty that would do that!!
They agreed formally before purchase that the common manifold issue would be covered by the warranty if there was any problem as I did ask.
When I buy something for enjoyment - such as a Ferrari - I want it to be as low stress as possible. For that no-worries experience, there is no better way to do it than buying from the main dealer. I am happy to pay a premium for that.
Though maybe if the OP has experience buying boats of such value, then I feel like he will be well used to the stress of potential for big bills!!!!!! I mean boats are really another league to cars, especially for annual costs.
They agreed formally before purchase that the common manifold issue would be covered by the warranty if there was any problem as I did ask.
When I buy something for enjoyment - such as a Ferrari - I want it to be as low stress as possible. For that no-worries experience, there is no better way to do it than buying from the main dealer. I am happy to pay a premium for that.
Though maybe if the OP has experience buying boats of such value, then I feel like he will be well used to the stress of potential for big bills!!!!!! I mean boats are really another league to cars, especially for annual costs.
sealtt said:
Though maybe if the OP has experience buying boats of such value, then I feel like he will be well used to the stress of potential for big bills!!!!!! I mean boats are really another league to cars, especially for annual costs.
bordseye said:
sealtt said:
Though maybe if the OP has experience buying boats of such value, then I feel like he will be well used to the stress of potential for big bills!!!!!! I mean boats are really another league to cars, especially for annual costs.
Anyway, I can tell you the F430 Spider I bought was infinitely cheaper than our boat - being as depreciation was 0 (I actually sold it for a little more than I paid); all repairs were done under warranty; and consumables were freshly replaced when I bought the car, so did not need replacing the 11 months I owned it. Of course I got lucky that the market moved up, otherwise I'd have been left with £10k+ dealer-margin to cover! But i bought from Ferrari and sold privately, it went fine. Selling privately was a lot easier because it had another year of Ferrari warranty left.
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