Ferrari Speciale Factory Collection (and comparison to CS an
Discussion
Ferrari Speciale Factory Collection (and comparison to CS and 12C)
Last week I completed a ‘journey’ that began some while ago. You could say that the date I placed the order with my dealer was the start of it, but in truth it all began much earlier than that – about 35 years earlier.
Man maths. We all know about it. You know the sort of thing; “Can I afford it? Of course I can afford it. Shouldn’t I really be asking ‘can I afford not to’?” I had a perfectly good Challenge straddle sitting in the garage alongside a 12C Spider covering most bases; they are a dream pairing. But then the man maths cut in…”you’re the 7th owner of the CS, you’ve never had a brand new Ferrari before, and this is going to be the last non-turbo V8 track special from Ferrari…..the CS has increased in value and the Speciale is within reach now…go on, just take a test drive!”
You can’t really discover too much on a test drive, only the sort of issue that might be a show-stopper, such as you not fitting in the stupid thing or some other irksome detail not mentioned in the various press reports or forum posts from owners you have read. What I discovered was that none of those things applied to me and there was nothing to make me think the press claims about this car were less than believable at least. So, I ordered one and proceeded to return home to ask permission! Happily I have a very understanding wife, who has come to enjoy my passion for motor cars which is a good thing since I make a living for us out of them.
Then the wait began. Many reading this will no doubt be familiar with the experience – googling photographs of cars similar to the spec you might like to order, playing and replaying YouTube videos from the likes of Chris Harris, Jethro Bovingdon and Henry Catchpole until they begin to sound eerily similar to the voice in your head telling you this is all very sensible. Of course this is normal. Idiot.
I have heard many negative stories about how Ferrari have handled customers, mainly emanating from North America – a few dealers there do seem to have lost some understanding of the word ‘customer’. My own experience could not be more different. From the beginning to now, GrayPaul in Birmingham, UK have been excellent, as have Ferrari themselves. I have to say it really, because they helped me to not only fulfill something of a dream but I do think they have both gone out of their way to be helpful and ensure that the experience of buying my first new (and fifth overall) Maranello product has been memorable in a really good way.
The trip to Maranello last November to spec the car was a nice experience and we took a long time to decide our specification. Anna, known to many people who have used the Atelier service, was excellent being both patient and helpful in suggesting how we could achieve what we were looking for. This year we are 25 years married and so we wanted to use a subtle silver theme plus some other ideas that would remind us of the occasion. On our collection day we were given a factory tour, including the motorsport area (in which there is a room full of customer F1 cars from the recent past – there is probably no other room in the world full of about thirty red F1 cars parked wall to wall; take your breath away stuff) and after a ‘free’ lunch at Cavallino led to the Atelier rooms for the unveiling ceremony. As we pulled back the red cover to an applauding room, which sounds ridiculous (all we did was sign a cheque) but actually isn’t in reality, our eyes first fell to the colour and the silver edging we gave to the NART stripe. I had run through this moment a few times in my head over the preceding months; would we like what we had taken so long in choosing? Too late if the answer was ‘no’ – how good am I at acting?! Answer; not very. No need to have worried though, our car is shockingly beautiful to my eyes.
I had originally planned to order Rosso Scuderia in honour of my departing Stradale but then decided that I preferred Corsa on the Speciale. When we got the Atelier, my wife suggested something else entirely…
So, perhaps she was as anxious as me to see how the rather expensive shade of Rosso called ‘Maranello’ would look in the flesh. She needn’t have worried because she had actually played a ‘blinder’ and selected a colour that not only suited the car but reflected its character as it turns out. Compared with the Stradale the Speciale is both raw and exciting but also far more adept at more mundane duties. Well, marginally. The colour is normally a shade between the flat reds of Corsa and Mugello, yet being a three layer colour lends a ‘wet look’ to the car and seemingly changes shade with a change in light – sunlight and it sparkles bright red, flat light lends a Rosso mugello-ish appearance and low light makes the car turn a very dark deep shade of red indeed. It is very very appealing and justifies the outlay in the context of the spec of our car, which ended up focusing on keeping a lightweight car lightweight, but spending extra on its appearance plus other ‘track oriented’ goodies like the telemetry system with track cameras. No AFS, no cruise control, no electric folding mirrors, no rear view camera or lifting system. On the three day drive back to the UK we discovered that we love the way we specified our car and I especially connected with the fact that this car, this small piece of Ferrari was built the way it was because we decided it that way. We added a few non-standard personal additions to make a completely unique Ferrari and from the moment the car was unveiled we felt more of a connection to it than any other car. And we hadn’t even driven it yet…
We wanted to do the full experience for our first new Ferrari and although I know it is not the most convenient thing for Ferrari to accommodate a factory collection (they told me that they are trying to ease back on them as much as possible) I think they could see that it was something I was very keen to do so they worked hard to accommodate me – I was really struggling to make the first date they gave me, having been told that it would either be a ‘yes’ or a ‘no’ to that date, they did rearrange the date for which I am grateful. They may not thank me for saying it but it was a great experience and one which I would completely recommend to those who are considering taking the time, trouble (and fairly high cost) to do it.
Coming from a Challenge Stradale the drive back to the UK, via the Italian Lakes, the Alps and then through rural France to Chantilly and on to England showed the Speciale to be a clear ‘son of’ but with significant improvements in the driving department as is to be expected. I think the way to really compare thse cars is not through advanced technology but by what these cars both evoke in you with their driving experience. Of course a DCT is an advancement over the CS’s F1 box but does that advancement improve or detract from your feeling in and understanding for, the car?
The Stradale is a very positive, light and lithe drive – very raw, with a sound that is still unsurpassed in any car I have heard or driven, which is now quite a few. The Speciale sound certainly adds to the experience, giving that F1 hit and from inside the car is preferable to the 12C, even though the sound that emanates from that car has been criticised a little too harshly in my view. It is not as nice as the CS but sound is the only area where the CS trumps the Speciale with the exception of appearance, which remains a personal thing for everyone so you have to make your own mind up on that. I slightly prefer the Speciale in that department but its close and the CS remains, well, simply gorgeous.
The key to the Speciale’s appeal is that it combines the modernity of DCT and smarter electronics without allowing them to detract from the CS’s purposeful, race-bred character. In fact the Speciale is also ahead of the CS in the chassis department where the whole car is nothing short of a revelation; any superlatives already aimed at this Ferrari are not overplayed I can assure you. The Speciale does not ‘invalidate’ the Stradale any more than a P1 would invalidate an F1, one is simply an evolution of the other, but the question that Ferrari had to answer was ‘is it possible to build a CS with 458 tech?’ The short answer after a 1,100 mile drive from Maranello to my home is without reservation ‘yes’. Somehow they have managed to keep this car both raw and refined and preserve that ‘hard-wired into your brain’ thing that the CS delivered over 10 years ago now. I know that it is common to ‘big up’ cars that are newly acquired but I can assure you, when you’re ‘on it’ this car is brilliant on a level I have not experienced before. The press have been right about this car from the beginning. If the test drive only served to confirm that this car could be as good its reputation, my drive home showed it was certainly even better than my own expectations.
So the question is not ‘what’ because the what, as so many journalists and owners have written, is that this car is a landmark and will go down in history as one of the greatest Ferraris. The really interesting question, as with any news story, is why?
Having driven a 12C over 9,000 European road miles covering the UK, especially the Highlands of Scotland, France, Italy and, of course, the Alps in the last 18 months I was fascinated to note the comparisons. With the 12C you have a brilliantly thought through car that firmly treads it own path with regard to delivering the ‘hit’ that a supercar is supposed to deliver. It looks great (better than most pictures would suggest), it is blindingly fast (I already knew that it can easily keep up with a well driven Speciale and other much more exotic machinery) and its modern electronics also help and not hinder proceedings in a similar way to those of the 458 and the Speciale. I have been delighted with the 12C and love so many details about its appearance, interior and driving.
Pulling out of the factory gates in our newly registered Speciale, having taken the obligatory famous photo, we began the process of really understanding exactly what it was we had bought. Some reservations existed; the 12C and Stradale sat well together because they were from different eras, utilizing different technology. Would the Speciale tread a path between the two and negate the value of having the 12C? What we discovered, at least my neck did after about two days, is that the Speciale, despite being easily more usable than the CS, is not close to the McLaren for GT duties. An Aston is a great GT but not a great supercar. The McLaren is both and uses its trick suspension to be brilliant at both tasks. If you’re looking for a winner or loser from me, I can’t satisfy that requirement because for some people the blend of abilities in the 12C are closer to their idea of what a £200k supercar should be. These aren’t directly comparable cars either, although I am about to talk about the Speciale’s damping, whose origins felt closely connected to the 430 I owned a few years ago. I think it was Clarkson who said that Ferraris move over the road unlike any other car. He is absolutely right. The Magnetorheological (!) dampers in the Ferrari communicate a level of detail that is simply absent in the McLaren. So, the fact that one is a ‘track special’ perhaps more a competitor for McLaren’s forthcoming 675LT, still doesn’t make this an invalid comparison in my view.
Life is usually full of trade-offs and chassis dynamics is certainly one area where that applies. McLaren’s approach was supposed to beat that established logic but it didn’t, it merely altered the trade-off to a different paradigm. With the McLaren you get amazing comfort on turbulent tarmac yet incredible body control remaining perfectly intact (therefore it avoids the traditional trade-off). The car is an exercise in covering ground at extreme speed and there is an undeniable enjoyment in that. However, in doing so it loses out on chassis feel. So there is still a trade-off to be had, just in a different area. The feel and connection you get with a Speciale is far ahead of any other car I have driven and the springs and damping have much to do with that, though not everything.
There are three other ingredients; steering, throttle response and electronics. These three things link so harmoniously with the way the car is suspended that you cannot help but smile, whoop and laugh like a school kid. As you dive into a turn, the steering is so fast yet faithful and feelsome that you begin to feel invincible. Now add an incredible dose of throttle response plus suspension that encourages fast turning and feel, plus chassis electronics that measure the right amount of slip at the rear and you have a car that is so deliciously intuitive to slide from the rear that you find yourself assisting the cars turning movements by throttle adjustments on a very regular basis. You feel like some sort of driving hero, all the while having the car inform you in great detail about what you are doing through it. I already felt connected to this car even before leaving the factory, now I feel like it is as essential a part of my garage as the roof and doors.
I have no idea if this car is faster than the McLaren but I doubt it on the road, probably on a track. The mid range torque of the Mac kicks you so firmly in the back that each time you plant the right foot deep into the carpet that the effect is quite literally shocking – even after 9,000 hard miles. This is addictive. It is no match for the linearity of the Speciale’s throttle though and whether the Speciale is faster or not is so completely irrelevant that it warrants no more than a sentence of my time.
As soon as I arrived home I jumped back in the 12C to check out the differences. The Speciale has a very ‘meaty’ feeling to it – delivered by the steering and also the damping; the car feels very solid, much more so than the 12C which has a lighter feeling to it, something which contributes to that car feeling a little more ‘everyday’ in the way it drives (absolutely nothing everyday about the performance though!) The 12C felt simpler in its interior design. I love the Ferrari wheel design and the fact that so many controls fall right to hand. I also felt I preferred the mannetino and separate ‘bumpy road’ switch, thinking it was easier and more straightforward than the McLaren approach. I did notice I seemed to be pressing more buttons as I was driving though, which I don’t suppose is a good idea. The 458 was more spacious and the stereo as poor as others have said. The satnav worked ok (only ok) and IRIS2 is about on a par with what is offered in the Ferrari. I do love the track telemetry and cameras though – quite expensive and it can be done cheaper if you do it yourself but the system is so well integrated into the car that I think it makes for a good option choice. The Ferrari feels a bit more of a serious piece of kit, although the Speciale is not more comfortable and maybe not even better overall on a longer run.
What the Speciale definitely is is a car so good to drive quickly that it forces you to readjust what the term ‘good’ really means in the context of supercars. It is not without vices but really they are very few, mainly that it does not have quite the comfort or usability of the Mac but really, do you want that it does? Buy a 650 or a 488 if you want that.
Instead the Speciale is a car that I really do believe that I will never sell, at least until I’m so old that I can’t actually get in it any more, by which time my kids will have probably nicked it from me anyway! It feels like we helped bring it to life. We spec’d it with the idea of keeping it for a long time and, of course, who knows what the future will bring, but as I write my feelings are that this has been a really great experience and one of those things that makes me feel even better about any hard work I have done to get here – I think it will take a lot to prise this car from our grasp and it already has its feet firmly under a (non existent) table in our garage! I feel very grateful to be in as privileged position as I am and hope to have many years of enjoyment with a really beautiful car.
Last week I completed a ‘journey’ that began some while ago. You could say that the date I placed the order with my dealer was the start of it, but in truth it all began much earlier than that – about 35 years earlier.
Man maths. We all know about it. You know the sort of thing; “Can I afford it? Of course I can afford it. Shouldn’t I really be asking ‘can I afford not to’?” I had a perfectly good Challenge straddle sitting in the garage alongside a 12C Spider covering most bases; they are a dream pairing. But then the man maths cut in…”you’re the 7th owner of the CS, you’ve never had a brand new Ferrari before, and this is going to be the last non-turbo V8 track special from Ferrari…..the CS has increased in value and the Speciale is within reach now…go on, just take a test drive!”
You can’t really discover too much on a test drive, only the sort of issue that might be a show-stopper, such as you not fitting in the stupid thing or some other irksome detail not mentioned in the various press reports or forum posts from owners you have read. What I discovered was that none of those things applied to me and there was nothing to make me think the press claims about this car were less than believable at least. So, I ordered one and proceeded to return home to ask permission! Happily I have a very understanding wife, who has come to enjoy my passion for motor cars which is a good thing since I make a living for us out of them.
Then the wait began. Many reading this will no doubt be familiar with the experience – googling photographs of cars similar to the spec you might like to order, playing and replaying YouTube videos from the likes of Chris Harris, Jethro Bovingdon and Henry Catchpole until they begin to sound eerily similar to the voice in your head telling you this is all very sensible. Of course this is normal. Idiot.
I have heard many negative stories about how Ferrari have handled customers, mainly emanating from North America – a few dealers there do seem to have lost some understanding of the word ‘customer’. My own experience could not be more different. From the beginning to now, GrayPaul in Birmingham, UK have been excellent, as have Ferrari themselves. I have to say it really, because they helped me to not only fulfill something of a dream but I do think they have both gone out of their way to be helpful and ensure that the experience of buying my first new (and fifth overall) Maranello product has been memorable in a really good way.
The trip to Maranello last November to spec the car was a nice experience and we took a long time to decide our specification. Anna, known to many people who have used the Atelier service, was excellent being both patient and helpful in suggesting how we could achieve what we were looking for. This year we are 25 years married and so we wanted to use a subtle silver theme plus some other ideas that would remind us of the occasion. On our collection day we were given a factory tour, including the motorsport area (in which there is a room full of customer F1 cars from the recent past – there is probably no other room in the world full of about thirty red F1 cars parked wall to wall; take your breath away stuff) and after a ‘free’ lunch at Cavallino led to the Atelier rooms for the unveiling ceremony. As we pulled back the red cover to an applauding room, which sounds ridiculous (all we did was sign a cheque) but actually isn’t in reality, our eyes first fell to the colour and the silver edging we gave to the NART stripe. I had run through this moment a few times in my head over the preceding months; would we like what we had taken so long in choosing? Too late if the answer was ‘no’ – how good am I at acting?! Answer; not very. No need to have worried though, our car is shockingly beautiful to my eyes.
I had originally planned to order Rosso Scuderia in honour of my departing Stradale but then decided that I preferred Corsa on the Speciale. When we got the Atelier, my wife suggested something else entirely…
So, perhaps she was as anxious as me to see how the rather expensive shade of Rosso called ‘Maranello’ would look in the flesh. She needn’t have worried because she had actually played a ‘blinder’ and selected a colour that not only suited the car but reflected its character as it turns out. Compared with the Stradale the Speciale is both raw and exciting but also far more adept at more mundane duties. Well, marginally. The colour is normally a shade between the flat reds of Corsa and Mugello, yet being a three layer colour lends a ‘wet look’ to the car and seemingly changes shade with a change in light – sunlight and it sparkles bright red, flat light lends a Rosso mugello-ish appearance and low light makes the car turn a very dark deep shade of red indeed. It is very very appealing and justifies the outlay in the context of the spec of our car, which ended up focusing on keeping a lightweight car lightweight, but spending extra on its appearance plus other ‘track oriented’ goodies like the telemetry system with track cameras. No AFS, no cruise control, no electric folding mirrors, no rear view camera or lifting system. On the three day drive back to the UK we discovered that we love the way we specified our car and I especially connected with the fact that this car, this small piece of Ferrari was built the way it was because we decided it that way. We added a few non-standard personal additions to make a completely unique Ferrari and from the moment the car was unveiled we felt more of a connection to it than any other car. And we hadn’t even driven it yet…
We wanted to do the full experience for our first new Ferrari and although I know it is not the most convenient thing for Ferrari to accommodate a factory collection (they told me that they are trying to ease back on them as much as possible) I think they could see that it was something I was very keen to do so they worked hard to accommodate me – I was really struggling to make the first date they gave me, having been told that it would either be a ‘yes’ or a ‘no’ to that date, they did rearrange the date for which I am grateful. They may not thank me for saying it but it was a great experience and one which I would completely recommend to those who are considering taking the time, trouble (and fairly high cost) to do it.
Coming from a Challenge Stradale the drive back to the UK, via the Italian Lakes, the Alps and then through rural France to Chantilly and on to England showed the Speciale to be a clear ‘son of’ but with significant improvements in the driving department as is to be expected. I think the way to really compare thse cars is not through advanced technology but by what these cars both evoke in you with their driving experience. Of course a DCT is an advancement over the CS’s F1 box but does that advancement improve or detract from your feeling in and understanding for, the car?
The Stradale is a very positive, light and lithe drive – very raw, with a sound that is still unsurpassed in any car I have heard or driven, which is now quite a few. The Speciale sound certainly adds to the experience, giving that F1 hit and from inside the car is preferable to the 12C, even though the sound that emanates from that car has been criticised a little too harshly in my view. It is not as nice as the CS but sound is the only area where the CS trumps the Speciale with the exception of appearance, which remains a personal thing for everyone so you have to make your own mind up on that. I slightly prefer the Speciale in that department but its close and the CS remains, well, simply gorgeous.
The key to the Speciale’s appeal is that it combines the modernity of DCT and smarter electronics without allowing them to detract from the CS’s purposeful, race-bred character. In fact the Speciale is also ahead of the CS in the chassis department where the whole car is nothing short of a revelation; any superlatives already aimed at this Ferrari are not overplayed I can assure you. The Speciale does not ‘invalidate’ the Stradale any more than a P1 would invalidate an F1, one is simply an evolution of the other, but the question that Ferrari had to answer was ‘is it possible to build a CS with 458 tech?’ The short answer after a 1,100 mile drive from Maranello to my home is without reservation ‘yes’. Somehow they have managed to keep this car both raw and refined and preserve that ‘hard-wired into your brain’ thing that the CS delivered over 10 years ago now. I know that it is common to ‘big up’ cars that are newly acquired but I can assure you, when you’re ‘on it’ this car is brilliant on a level I have not experienced before. The press have been right about this car from the beginning. If the test drive only served to confirm that this car could be as good its reputation, my drive home showed it was certainly even better than my own expectations.
So the question is not ‘what’ because the what, as so many journalists and owners have written, is that this car is a landmark and will go down in history as one of the greatest Ferraris. The really interesting question, as with any news story, is why?
Having driven a 12C over 9,000 European road miles covering the UK, especially the Highlands of Scotland, France, Italy and, of course, the Alps in the last 18 months I was fascinated to note the comparisons. With the 12C you have a brilliantly thought through car that firmly treads it own path with regard to delivering the ‘hit’ that a supercar is supposed to deliver. It looks great (better than most pictures would suggest), it is blindingly fast (I already knew that it can easily keep up with a well driven Speciale and other much more exotic machinery) and its modern electronics also help and not hinder proceedings in a similar way to those of the 458 and the Speciale. I have been delighted with the 12C and love so many details about its appearance, interior and driving.
Pulling out of the factory gates in our newly registered Speciale, having taken the obligatory famous photo, we began the process of really understanding exactly what it was we had bought. Some reservations existed; the 12C and Stradale sat well together because they were from different eras, utilizing different technology. Would the Speciale tread a path between the two and negate the value of having the 12C? What we discovered, at least my neck did after about two days, is that the Speciale, despite being easily more usable than the CS, is not close to the McLaren for GT duties. An Aston is a great GT but not a great supercar. The McLaren is both and uses its trick suspension to be brilliant at both tasks. If you’re looking for a winner or loser from me, I can’t satisfy that requirement because for some people the blend of abilities in the 12C are closer to their idea of what a £200k supercar should be. These aren’t directly comparable cars either, although I am about to talk about the Speciale’s damping, whose origins felt closely connected to the 430 I owned a few years ago. I think it was Clarkson who said that Ferraris move over the road unlike any other car. He is absolutely right. The Magnetorheological (!) dampers in the Ferrari communicate a level of detail that is simply absent in the McLaren. So, the fact that one is a ‘track special’ perhaps more a competitor for McLaren’s forthcoming 675LT, still doesn’t make this an invalid comparison in my view.
Life is usually full of trade-offs and chassis dynamics is certainly one area where that applies. McLaren’s approach was supposed to beat that established logic but it didn’t, it merely altered the trade-off to a different paradigm. With the McLaren you get amazing comfort on turbulent tarmac yet incredible body control remaining perfectly intact (therefore it avoids the traditional trade-off). The car is an exercise in covering ground at extreme speed and there is an undeniable enjoyment in that. However, in doing so it loses out on chassis feel. So there is still a trade-off to be had, just in a different area. The feel and connection you get with a Speciale is far ahead of any other car I have driven and the springs and damping have much to do with that, though not everything.
There are three other ingredients; steering, throttle response and electronics. These three things link so harmoniously with the way the car is suspended that you cannot help but smile, whoop and laugh like a school kid. As you dive into a turn, the steering is so fast yet faithful and feelsome that you begin to feel invincible. Now add an incredible dose of throttle response plus suspension that encourages fast turning and feel, plus chassis electronics that measure the right amount of slip at the rear and you have a car that is so deliciously intuitive to slide from the rear that you find yourself assisting the cars turning movements by throttle adjustments on a very regular basis. You feel like some sort of driving hero, all the while having the car inform you in great detail about what you are doing through it. I already felt connected to this car even before leaving the factory, now I feel like it is as essential a part of my garage as the roof and doors.
I have no idea if this car is faster than the McLaren but I doubt it on the road, probably on a track. The mid range torque of the Mac kicks you so firmly in the back that each time you plant the right foot deep into the carpet that the effect is quite literally shocking – even after 9,000 hard miles. This is addictive. It is no match for the linearity of the Speciale’s throttle though and whether the Speciale is faster or not is so completely irrelevant that it warrants no more than a sentence of my time.
As soon as I arrived home I jumped back in the 12C to check out the differences. The Speciale has a very ‘meaty’ feeling to it – delivered by the steering and also the damping; the car feels very solid, much more so than the 12C which has a lighter feeling to it, something which contributes to that car feeling a little more ‘everyday’ in the way it drives (absolutely nothing everyday about the performance though!) The 12C felt simpler in its interior design. I love the Ferrari wheel design and the fact that so many controls fall right to hand. I also felt I preferred the mannetino and separate ‘bumpy road’ switch, thinking it was easier and more straightforward than the McLaren approach. I did notice I seemed to be pressing more buttons as I was driving though, which I don’t suppose is a good idea. The 458 was more spacious and the stereo as poor as others have said. The satnav worked ok (only ok) and IRIS2 is about on a par with what is offered in the Ferrari. I do love the track telemetry and cameras though – quite expensive and it can be done cheaper if you do it yourself but the system is so well integrated into the car that I think it makes for a good option choice. The Ferrari feels a bit more of a serious piece of kit, although the Speciale is not more comfortable and maybe not even better overall on a longer run.
What the Speciale definitely is is a car so good to drive quickly that it forces you to readjust what the term ‘good’ really means in the context of supercars. It is not without vices but really they are very few, mainly that it does not have quite the comfort or usability of the Mac but really, do you want that it does? Buy a 650 or a 488 if you want that.
Instead the Speciale is a car that I really do believe that I will never sell, at least until I’m so old that I can’t actually get in it any more, by which time my kids will have probably nicked it from me anyway! It feels like we helped bring it to life. We spec’d it with the idea of keeping it for a long time and, of course, who knows what the future will bring, but as I write my feelings are that this has been a really great experience and one of those things that makes me feel even better about any hard work I have done to get here – I think it will take a lot to prise this car from our grasp and it already has its feet firmly under a (non existent) table in our garage! I feel very grateful to be in as privileged position as I am and hope to have many years of enjoyment with a really beautiful car.
Congrats, super colour choice. Sounds very like Volcano red
Speciale is an awesome drivers car and will sit well with the 12C spider. Best of both worlds.
Sadly my budget wouldn't allow me both currently so I opted for the 650S spider ( more road based, top down driving ) in hope I can pick up a used Speciale to accompany her in 3 years time.
From my experience of all 3 cars the 650S sits between the 12C and 458 Speciale with a little more oomph, feel and emotion than the 12C but not quite the track focussed feel of the speciale.
As a one size fits all supercar the 650S is amazing but adding a Speciale for track work has got to be the aim
Speciale is an awesome drivers car and will sit well with the 12C spider. Best of both worlds.
Sadly my budget wouldn't allow me both currently so I opted for the 650S spider ( more road based, top down driving ) in hope I can pick up a used Speciale to accompany her in 3 years time.
From my experience of all 3 cars the 650S sits between the 12C and 458 Speciale with a little more oomph, feel and emotion than the 12C but not quite the track focussed feel of the speciale.
As a one size fits all supercar the 650S is amazing but adding a Speciale for track work has got to be the aim
Edited by RamboLambo on Monday 25th May 11:28
RamboLambo said:
Sadly my budget wouldn't allow me both currently so I opted for the 650S spider ( more road based, top down driving ) in hope I can pick up a used Speciale to accompany her in 3 years time.
From my experience of all 3 cars the 650S sits between the 12C and 458 Speciale with a little more oomph, feel and emotion than the 12C but not quite the track focussed feel of the speciale.
As a one size fits all supercar the 650S is amazing but adding a Speciale for track work has got to be the aim
RamboLambo, or should we say GRBF430F1, please don't ruin a great thread spouting your yawny nonsense... Heard all of the above many many times...From my experience of all 3 cars the 650S sits between the 12C and 458 Speciale with a little more oomph, feel and emotion than the 12C but not quite the track focussed feel of the speciale.
As a one size fits all supercar the 650S is amazing but adding a Speciale for track work has got to be the aim
Edited by RamboLambo on Monday 25th May 11:28
Mr Lukey - Epic journey and pictures sir, think that shade of red really suits the car. Speciale will be one of the all time greats and even more 'speciale' having owned it from new...
Enjoy!
Slickhillsy said:
RamboLambo, or should we say GRBF430F1, please don't ruin a great thread spouting your yawny nonsense... Heard all of the above many many times...
Mr Lukey - Epic journey and pictures sir, think that shade of red really suits the car. Speciale will be one of the all time greats and even more 'speciale' having owned it from new...
Enjoy!
Hear, hear! Nice to see that he seems to have dropped his "Performante for president" campaign though.Mr Lukey - Epic journey and pictures sir, think that shade of red really suits the car. Speciale will be one of the all time greats and even more 'speciale' having owned it from new...
Enjoy!
Back on track. Yes, wonderful to hear the comparison between the CS and the Speciale. I agree that the only area that the CS trumps the Speciale is in the exhaust note department which is still unparalleled! The limited time I spent in the Speciale made me think it was a lot less raw than the CS than the OP seems to suggest? I'd love to hear of some other comparisons. I do appreciate of course, that "rawness" is such a vacuous terms, but I can't seem to think of a better way to put it.
I think that it is incredibly difficult to compare a CS with Speciale, given how much more advanced the new car is, but it's great to try!
Ffffaster said:
Hear, hear! Nice to see that he seems to have dropped his "Performante for president" campaign though.
Back on track. Yes, wonderful to hear the comparison between the CS and the Speciale. I agree that the only area that the CS trumps the Speciale is in the exhaust note department which is still unparalleled! The limited time I spent in the Speciale made me think it was a lot less raw than the CS than the OP seems to suggest? I'd love to hear of some other comparisons. I do appreciate of course, that "rawness" is such a vacuous terms, but I can't seem to think of a better way to put it.
I think that it is incredibly difficult to compare a CS with Speciale, given how much more advanced the new car is, but it's great to try!
I suppose the thing I was most surprised about was the gear change. In Race mode it is fairly brutal and even in automatic mode it is not at all smooth - especially compared to the 12C the transmission calibration is a big difference. The car completely comes together at full chat (with the gearbox giving bullet-quick changes unlike any other I have driven) but is not a patch on the 12C for general smoothness. The Speciale still asks a lot from the driver compared with other cars and I suppose that is where I get the 'still raw' idea from.Back on track. Yes, wonderful to hear the comparison between the CS and the Speciale. I agree that the only area that the CS trumps the Speciale is in the exhaust note department which is still unparalleled! The limited time I spent in the Speciale made me think it was a lot less raw than the CS than the OP seems to suggest? I'd love to hear of some other comparisons. I do appreciate of course, that "rawness" is such a vacuous terms, but I can't seem to think of a better way to put it.
I think that it is incredibly difficult to compare a CS with Speciale, given how much more advanced the new car is, but it's great to try!
It depends if people think raw is synonymous with 'lower/simpler tech' or with 'screw the comfort, this car is about 10/10ths' -if the latter, the Speciale still has it in spades. Even the CS wasn't about lower/simpler tech in its day.
The CS is less comfortable but not massively so, it is noisier but mainly from the outside but it is not any racier - both are fairly hardcore cars in that department. Although the Stradale was an uncompromising car I managed trips to Le Mans, Spa and on the Irish Cannonball in it and it was surprisingly habitable. After 1,100 miles in the Speciale I don't think I was any less tired than if I had have been in the CS which was something of a surprise. Don't get me wrong, the Speciale is somewhere between the 12C and the CS but maybe 70% towards the CS and I wouldn't want to put anyone off the idea of owning one because all these cars are perfectly fine for a long journey, so long as you want to be tired but grinning at the end of it!
LukeyLikey said:
I suppose the thing I was most surprised about was the gear change. In Race mode it is fairly brutal and even in automatic mode it is not at all smooth - especially compared to the 12C the transmission calibration is a big difference. The car completely comes together at full chat (with the gearbox giving bullet-quick changes unlike any other I have driven) but is not a patch on the 12C for general smoothness. The Speciale still asks a lot from the driver compared with other cars and I suppose that is where I get the 'still raw' idea from.
It depends if people think raw is synonymous with 'lower/simpler tech' or with 'screw the comfort, this car is about 10/10ths' -if the latter, the Speciale still has it in spades. Even the CS wasn't about lower/simpler tech in its day.
The CS is less comfortable but not massively so, it is noisier but mainly from the outside but it is not any racier - both are fairly hardcore cars in that department. Although the Stradale was an uncompromising car I managed trips to Le Mans, Spa and on the Irish Cannonball in it and it was surprisingly habitable. After 1,100 miles in the Speciale I don't think I was any less tired than if I had have been in the CS which was something of a surprise. Don't get me wrong, the Speciale is somewhere between the 12C and the CS but maybe 70% towards the CS and I wouldn't want to put anyone off the idea of owning one because all these cars are perfectly fine for a long journey, so long as you want to be tired but grinning at the end of it!
Do you have any experience of the 430 Scuderia? Would also be interested your thoughts in comparison against that if you have...It depends if people think raw is synonymous with 'lower/simpler tech' or with 'screw the comfort, this car is about 10/10ths' -if the latter, the Speciale still has it in spades. Even the CS wasn't about lower/simpler tech in its day.
The CS is less comfortable but not massively so, it is noisier but mainly from the outside but it is not any racier - both are fairly hardcore cars in that department. Although the Stradale was an uncompromising car I managed trips to Le Mans, Spa and on the Irish Cannonball in it and it was surprisingly habitable. After 1,100 miles in the Speciale I don't think I was any less tired than if I had have been in the CS which was something of a surprise. Don't get me wrong, the Speciale is somewhere between the 12C and the CS but maybe 70% towards the CS and I wouldn't want to put anyone off the idea of owning one because all these cars are perfectly fine for a long journey, so long as you want to be tired but grinning at the end of it!
Slickhillsy said:
Do you have any experience of the 430 Scuderia? Would also be interested your thoughts in comparison against that if you have...
I would say a very similar driving feel in terms of rawness but a lot faster and the car has a far better build quality.Still think the F1 superfast II gear shift is the best you can get in this type of car but the Speciale's is even quicker ( not as brutal ) IMHO
458 was a game changer versus F430 but probably a little less so with Speciale. It is noticeably quicker though and to the point it really is a track weapon
RamboLambo said:
I would say a very similar driving feel in terms of rawness but a lot faster and the car has a far better build quality.
Still think the F1 superfast II gear shift is the best you can get in this type of car but the Speciale's is even quicker ( not as brutal ) IMHO
458 was a game changer versus F430 but probably a little less so with Speciale. It is noticeably quicker though and to the point it really is a track weapon
Wasn't asking you - but thanks anyways...Still think the F1 superfast II gear shift is the best you can get in this type of car but the Speciale's is even quicker ( not as brutal ) IMHO
458 was a game changer versus F430 but probably a little less so with Speciale. It is noticeably quicker though and to the point it really is a track weapon
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