Buying 458 privately?
Discussion
Been looking to get into a Rosso/Crema F430 Spider F1 for some time, since just before Christmas. Having missed out on a couple of peaches because of skittishness and sale price concerns (which turned out to be wrong, good news for current owners!) I now find myself at the point where it seems I've missed the boat this year on anything but the top end priced cars.
As I've been frustrated in my search - and I'm looking at this as very much a short term affair (less than 12 months) - I have instead been turning my eye towards 458s. Now with my budget I'd very much be looking at the earlier cars I think, possibly with a small amount of finance on top to be able maintain a slush fund, but from what I've seen already it seems to be a pretty different purchasing proposition entirely.
For starters there seems to be no private sellers at all. Is that just a symptom of it being north of £100k? My obvious concern with this state of affairs it would seem to mean that I'd have to buy from and sell back to a dealer, and suffer the margin kicker at both ends. I did sound out a Ferrari dealer about a £140k 2010 car they had and to be fair to the sales guy he pretty much told me that I'd be looking at a £20k spread to own the car for several months.
Secondly there seems to be a modest premium in going for a car with the 7 year servicing plan. All things being equal is it such a bonus to have it?
So I find myself in a bit of a quandary... I guess if one were to keep the car for an extended period of time it's quite possible it will appreciate in value (there, I said it, the dreaded "V" word), like the F430, being the last of the NA V8s, etc - but I'm not keeping the car for an extended period of time. The 488 GTB is certainly going to have a knock-on effect too, but I don't know if this is already reflected in the pricing or whether it's in the post. 458 prices don't seem to be dropping considerably at this point at any rate.
So, interested to hear thoughts...
As I've been frustrated in my search - and I'm looking at this as very much a short term affair (less than 12 months) - I have instead been turning my eye towards 458s. Now with my budget I'd very much be looking at the earlier cars I think, possibly with a small amount of finance on top to be able maintain a slush fund, but from what I've seen already it seems to be a pretty different purchasing proposition entirely.
For starters there seems to be no private sellers at all. Is that just a symptom of it being north of £100k? My obvious concern with this state of affairs it would seem to mean that I'd have to buy from and sell back to a dealer, and suffer the margin kicker at both ends. I did sound out a Ferrari dealer about a £140k 2010 car they had and to be fair to the sales guy he pretty much told me that I'd be looking at a £20k spread to own the car for several months.
Secondly there seems to be a modest premium in going for a car with the 7 year servicing plan. All things being equal is it such a bonus to have it?
So I find myself in a bit of a quandary... I guess if one were to keep the car for an extended period of time it's quite possible it will appreciate in value (there, I said it, the dreaded "V" word), like the F430, being the last of the NA V8s, etc - but I'm not keeping the car for an extended period of time. The 488 GTB is certainly going to have a knock-on effect too, but I don't know if this is already reflected in the pricing or whether it's in the post. 458 prices don't seem to be dropping considerably at this point at any rate.
So, interested to hear thoughts...
I think in the price range you have mentioned the prices seem very steady now.A lot of cars are probably on sale or return so it might be a good idea to put a wanted add in the 458 section if you can put yourself in a position to buy if the right car and price comes up ie have any funds or finance approved.
It has been done many times before and if a private buyer has been bid really low by a dealer in either a part-ex or a buy in price then you might be pleasantly surprised at the cars that you are offered.If you look for a car that came with the 7 year service plan from 2011 onwards it is another plus.
If you are not going to do huge mileage then service items will not be needed that often and the clutches should last for ages with the new gearboxes as they take nowhere near the amount of stress as the earlier ones.Pads should last a good while and discs can be refurbished.
It has been done many times before and if a private buyer has been bid really low by a dealer in either a part-ex or a buy in price then you might be pleasantly surprised at the cars that you are offered.If you look for a car that came with the 7 year service plan from 2011 onwards it is another plus.
If you are not going to do huge mileage then service items will not be needed that often and the clutches should last for ages with the new gearboxes as they take nowhere near the amount of stress as the earlier ones.Pads should last a good while and discs can be refurbished.
Thanks. I think you're probably right, if I can find a private seller who is keen to sell for just over part ex/trade-in price then both of us could end up happy.
My situation is that I ought only need finance if buying from a dealer. If I can get one for what I imagine trade bids to be, I wouldn't.
My situation is that I ought only need finance if buying from a dealer. If I can get one for what I imagine trade bids to be, I wouldn't.
griff7 said:
I think in the price range you have mentioned the prices seem very steady now.
No, they are not. The new 488 GTB has just been presented, none on the market yet, none even delivered yet. once they will it will cause a flow of new/old 458's on the 2nd hand market....That means for the comming years, if the 488 lives up to expectations (and Ferrari do have a habit to do so lately), the 458 will depreciate a bit more. And "steady" is something else as "depreciation" in my book.
DeltonaS said:
No, they are not. The new 488 GTB has just been presented, none on the market yet, none even delivered yet. once they will it will cause a flow of new/old 458's on the 2nd hand market....
That means for the comming years, if the 488 lives up to expectations (and Ferrari do have a habit to do so lately), the 458 will depreciate a bit more. And "steady" is something else as "depreciation" in my book.
I said at the moment they are which is correct.If you are not going to get in and out very quickly then i think at this price bracket you will be safe for a while.I have heard of a lot of buyers getting into new turbo models like California and coming out after only a few months and straight back into normally aspirated so i think this bracket of price 125k to 140k 2011 onwards will remain very steady.The top end will drop a lot.That means for the comming years, if the 488 lives up to expectations (and Ferrari do have a habit to do so lately), the 458 will depreciate a bit more. And "steady" is something else as "depreciation" in my book.
griff7 said:
I said at the moment they are which is correct.If you are not going to get in and out very quickly then i think at this price bracket you will be safe for a while.I have heard of a lot of buyers getting into new turbo models like California and coming out after only a few months and straight back into normally aspirated so i think this bracket of price 125k to 140k 2011 onwards will remain very steady.The top end will drop a lot.
That seems to be logical. There appears to be movement at that range too, so it doesn't seem as if the pricing is speculative or that people are put off by the 488 on the horizon.Any more colour available on what was said before regarding people moving out of Cali T and back into the old version?
Old shape Calis seem to be selling well at the right price. Still personally undecided between T and a 30
Regarding 458's the spiders seem more liquid than the coupes and prices seem pretty steady - but then this is probably peak toy buying season
Old shape Calis seem to be selling well at the right price. Still personally undecided between T and a 30
Regarding 458's the spiders seem more liquid than the coupes and prices seem pretty steady - but then this is probably peak toy buying season
andy355 said:
Any more colour available on what was said before regarding people moving out of Cali T and back into the old version?
Old shape Calis seem to be selling well at the right price. Still personally undecided between T and a 30
Regarding 458's the spiders seem more liquid than the coupes and prices seem pretty steady - but then this is probably peak toy buying season
Number 1 soundtrack and throttle response and power delivery from the normally aspirated car as a whole just more of an event in the V8.Old shape Calis seem to be selling well at the right price. Still personally undecided between T and a 30
Regarding 458's the spiders seem more liquid than the coupes and prices seem pretty steady - but then this is probably peak toy buying season
These things to some people are not that important but for many people they are.Performance may be up but the way it is delivered is just not as exciting.
My sights have moved to a 458 now and I'd be looking for private as a cash buyer.
Would be looking for private cash buyer for my GT2 as well, how hard can it be? I'd have thought an escrow scheme ought to be possible whereby both parties draw up a contract of sale and once terms completed, monies transfer.
Thinking independent inspection as part of the deal and given the mahoosive markups on these things (I've just been quoted 90k trade, 110-120k retail for the GT2!) you'd have thought private buyers/sellers were lining up to be happy.
Would be looking for private cash buyer for my GT2 as well, how hard can it be? I'd have thought an escrow scheme ought to be possible whereby both parties draw up a contract of sale and once terms completed, monies transfer.
Thinking independent inspection as part of the deal and given the mahoosive markups on these things (I've just been quoted 90k trade, 110-120k retail for the GT2!) you'd have thought private buyers/sellers were lining up to be happy.
supermono said:
My sights have moved to a 458 now and I'd be looking for private as a cash buyer.
Would be looking for private cash buyer for my GT2 as well, how hard can it be? I'd have thought an escrow scheme ought to be possible whereby both parties draw up a contract of sale and once terms completed, monies transfer.
Thinking independent inspection as part of the deal and given the mahoosive markups on these things (I've just been quoted 90k trade, 110-120k retail for the GT2!) you'd have thought private buyers/sellers were lining up to be happy.
It has got to be worth a try especially if it has an inspection as part of the deal.Would be looking for private cash buyer for my GT2 as well, how hard can it be? I'd have thought an escrow scheme ought to be possible whereby both parties draw up a contract of sale and once terms completed, monies transfer.
Thinking independent inspection as part of the deal and given the mahoosive markups on these things (I've just been quoted 90k trade, 110-120k retail for the GT2!) you'd have thought private buyers/sellers were lining up to be happy.
supermono said:
My sights have moved to a 458 now and I'd be looking for private as a cash buyer.
Would be looking for private cash buyer for my GT2 as well, how hard can it be? I'd have thought an escrow scheme ought to be possible whereby both parties draw up a contract of sale and once terms completed, monies transfer.
Thinking independent inspection as part of the deal and given the mahoosive markups on these things (I've just been quoted 90k trade, 110-120k retail for the GT2!) you'd have thought private buyers/sellers were lining up to be happy.
Well, there's a lot of risk, particularly if there's no preexisting warranty. Also I guess at that level there will be a lot of people who choose finance because they can make that capital work for them better elsewhere. I also don't necessarily think that inspections are much of a reassurance - they are essentially only a specialised MOT, there's nothing stopping something expensive going wrong a mile or so down the road. Inspections are a no-brainer of course, notwithstanding that fact.Would be looking for private cash buyer for my GT2 as well, how hard can it be? I'd have thought an escrow scheme ought to be possible whereby both parties draw up a contract of sale and once terms completed, monies transfer.
Thinking independent inspection as part of the deal and given the mahoosive markups on these things (I've just been quoted 90k trade, 110-120k retail for the GT2!) you'd have thought private buyers/sellers were lining up to be happy.
I freely admit to having zero clue as to what trade bids on 458s are, but I suspect like most things where the dealer knows you pretty much need them I doubt they are particularly generous.
With that in mind I must admit I'm surprised at how few private sellers there seems to be. Is it just because shortage of cash buyers? Unwanted aggro from test pilots and tyre kickers? SOR deals competitive enough? I suppose shoe on the other foot if I was trying to sell a £100k+ car I probably couldn't be bothered with private vs having a dealer make an offer, collect a car, etc smoothly and without hassle if there was only a few thousand involved (and potentially having to wait around for private buyer to sort funds, risk of them pulling out, etc).
How difficult is it to have the vehicle covered by an approved dealer warranty ?I know Porsche did a multi point check and if everything was ok you could buy a warranty from them.I don't know what age or mileage restrictions were on this but maybe if cost was say 2k to get an approved warranty on the car then it might be worth it.
If someone is looking for that type of car then there are many options of finance better than main dealers.
If someone is looking for that type of car then there are many options of finance better than main dealers.
I don't know if things have changed but Porsche don't allow you to put the car in for a warranty until 90 days after you'd purchased it. Not sure if that was just indies or private sellers as well. You could transfer the extended warranty on a private sale, but sales to/from an indie would nullify it.
Arbitrary really, and almost certainly designed to disincentivise out-of-network sales.
Arbitrary really, and almost certainly designed to disincentivise out-of-network sales.
Having advertised my 62 plate 458 privatly last year,(I always advertise my cars privatly)plenty of calls but the bids from 'private buyers' were crazy nobody would come and look at the car, all wanted the lowest price on the phone,like they would pay for it over the phone.. I actually sold the car to an independent dealer (within the week) for some £10K more than the best 'private' offer, and a hell of a lot more than the worst who said he knew my cars value as he reads PH...
(the sell price was £5K less than advertised so my expectations were reasonable)
I think that this may be one of the reasons you see very few 'high end' cars for sale privatly, as the kicking you get from 'knowledgable' private buyers makes some dealers palatable..
That said I enjoy the crack selling my cars so I will still sell privatly.
(the sell price was £5K less than advertised so my expectations were reasonable)I think that this may be one of the reasons you see very few 'high end' cars for sale privatly, as the kicking you get from 'knowledgable' private buyers makes some dealers palatable..
That said I enjoy the crack selling my cars so I will still sell privatly.
Still over 100 on AT.
This one seems cheap for a cab.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
This one seems cheap for a cab.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...
PHOENIXUK said:
Having advertised my 62 plate 458 privatly last year,(I always advertise my cars privatly)plenty of calls but the bids from 'private buyers' were crazy nobody would come and look at the car, all wanted the lowest price on the phone,like they would pay for it over the phone.. I actually sold the car to an independent dealer (within the week) for some £10K more than the best 'private' offer, and a hell of a lot more than the worst who said he knew my cars value as he reads PH... (the sell price was £5K less than advertised so my expectations were reasonable)
I think that this may be one of the reasons you see very few 'high end' cars for sale privatly, as the kicking you get from 'knowledgable' private buyers makes some dealers palatable..
That said I enjoy the crack selling my cars so I will still sell privatly.
Yeah, I can see how that would poison the well. Would you care to share particulars of some of the offers you'd received? (the sell price was £5K less than advertised so my expectations were reasonable)I think that this may be one of the reasons you see very few 'high end' cars for sale privatly, as the kicking you get from 'knowledgable' private buyers makes some dealers palatable..
That said I enjoy the crack selling my cars so I will still sell privatly.
SOR could be a ballache. I once put a car on SOR and the git threw away all my old tax disks (were stored in holder in windscreen) and had supplying main dealer number plates replaced with his garage name. I think he also drilled new holes for them (old were with double sided).
Only small details but when I got the car back I'd lost what I considered to be some valuable parts of the history.
Only small details but when I got the car back I'd lost what I considered to be some valuable parts of the history.
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