Looked at a dealers F355 today - Is it me or.....?
Discussion
Hi there fellow Gassers,
I went to see a Ferrari F355 today that is for sale at a very reputable classic and prestige car dealer, I've come away feeling a little cold and somewhat focused, I'm no expert so I want to ask everyone their views on what I should expect from a 1998 model Ferrari GTS???
from 10 yards to me it looked the nuts, surrounded by other stunning cars it really held its own, after spending a couple of minutes looking over it my OCD started to get a little spiked, the alloys were pitted and scuffed, car has clearly had paint, but not the wing mirrors, they have gone a light shade or red and now in need of paint, crap wax job for the showroom with white hard wax down all seams to doors, bonnet, lights etc. the windscreen was cloudy at the bottom corner, a good 10" by 4" white cloud so very obvious, interior wasn't to bad but all the dash was gloopy, black goo all over my hands from trying to move the broken air vents, console however was okay.
The car is from ireland and is now registered here by the dealer so only showing 1 owner, I wasn't shown any history, MOT's or receipts but I am sure it does have a full SH.
I know it's an old car, I know it's not being sold as concours, however it is top end money, question is, am I expecting to much, some of the things the dealer will put right if asked but I doubt all of them and I do expect more if I drive off with it.
I went to see a Ferrari F355 today that is for sale at a very reputable classic and prestige car dealer, I've come away feeling a little cold and somewhat focused, I'm no expert so I want to ask everyone their views on what I should expect from a 1998 model Ferrari GTS???
from 10 yards to me it looked the nuts, surrounded by other stunning cars it really held its own, after spending a couple of minutes looking over it my OCD started to get a little spiked, the alloys were pitted and scuffed, car has clearly had paint, but not the wing mirrors, they have gone a light shade or red and now in need of paint, crap wax job for the showroom with white hard wax down all seams to doors, bonnet, lights etc. the windscreen was cloudy at the bottom corner, a good 10" by 4" white cloud so very obvious, interior wasn't to bad but all the dash was gloopy, black goo all over my hands from trying to move the broken air vents, console however was okay.
The car is from ireland and is now registered here by the dealer so only showing 1 owner, I wasn't shown any history, MOT's or receipts but I am sure it does have a full SH.
I know it's an old car, I know it's not being sold as concours, however it is top end money, question is, am I expecting to much, some of the things the dealer will put right if asked but I doubt all of them and I do expect more if I drive off with it.
dvb
Firstly with regard to the windscreen, it is delaminating in the corner and requires very careful removal and refitting with new sealant.
This will most likely be causing a leak into the interior footwell and will need careful inspection when removed to ensure it hasn't been a long term problem causing hidden corrosion.
The wheels are easily refurbished and should have been done before going on sale.
Maybe I'm too OCD, my wheels are removed periodically and polished on the inside as well as out to make it easy to wash off any brake dust. At the same time I give the inner arches and suspension a good clean as well as the wishbones and other accessible areas.
Like Fesuvious I looked long and hard for the right car, scouring the Ferrari dealers and specialists, finding my car privately in the end.
Most will have had some cosmetic paint such as the front bumper for stone chip correction, buttresses are another common area of paint work but should be pretty much undetectable and not different shades due to fading.
Sounds like this car was very poorly prepared and I wouldn't be to sure about it having a fully documented history going by the way it has been presented.
All I can say is that when you finally find the right one, everything will fall into place and the condition, appearance, history et al will all be spot on.
Good luck with your ongoing search
Charlie
Firstly with regard to the windscreen, it is delaminating in the corner and requires very careful removal and refitting with new sealant.
This will most likely be causing a leak into the interior footwell and will need careful inspection when removed to ensure it hasn't been a long term problem causing hidden corrosion.
The wheels are easily refurbished and should have been done before going on sale.
Maybe I'm too OCD, my wheels are removed periodically and polished on the inside as well as out to make it easy to wash off any brake dust. At the same time I give the inner arches and suspension a good clean as well as the wishbones and other accessible areas.
Like Fesuvious I looked long and hard for the right car, scouring the Ferrari dealers and specialists, finding my car privately in the end.
Most will have had some cosmetic paint such as the front bumper for stone chip correction, buttresses are another common area of paint work but should be pretty much undetectable and not different shades due to fading.
Sounds like this car was very poorly prepared and I wouldn't be to sure about it having a fully documented history going by the way it has been presented.
All I can say is that when you finally find the right one, everything will fall into place and the condition, appearance, history et al will all be spot on.
Good luck with your ongoing search
Charlie
I know the feeling exactly. I was looking for over a year for the right car and saw some very average cars (at least 10) at top money.
I ended up buying from a Ferrari main dealer in the end - paid a bit more but got the relative peace of mind that if there were any issues I had some comeback. I still had a PPI done which did pick up a few very minor issues which the dealer sorted.
I do agree that you should not dismiss those for sale privately although there are not many around - a PPI will expose any major issues.
I would personally walk away from any car that a dealer had not taken the time or made the effort to present the car well.
Good luck with the search - in a weird way the process of finding the car you want can be fun. You will not be disappointed when you get one!
I ended up buying from a Ferrari main dealer in the end - paid a bit more but got the relative peace of mind that if there were any issues I had some comeback. I still had a PPI done which did pick up a few very minor issues which the dealer sorted.
I do agree that you should not dismiss those for sale privately although there are not many around - a PPI will expose any major issues.
I would personally walk away from any car that a dealer had not taken the time or made the effort to present the car well.
Good luck with the search - in a weird way the process of finding the car you want can be fun. You will not be disappointed when you get one!
We looked at a few 355's last summer and most had some of the issues you mention and this was partially responsible for us choosing a 360 instead. We too bought privately as I figured unless you buy from a very reputable dealer, a private purchase (pound for pound) will be just as good a car. Speak to dealers with good rep's, look at both private & trade and have a PPI where necessary. Above all, don't go for a car you're not entirely happy with.
Fwiw, 355's have magnesium wheels and I'd personally want to see them in excellent condition. They're hygroscopic and it's a good idea to rectify damage etc quickly. To an extent, bad wheels may be a sign of how well a car's been looked after.
Fwiw, 355's have magnesium wheels and I'd personally want to see them in excellent condition. They're hygroscopic and it's a good idea to rectify damage etc quickly. To an extent, bad wheels may be a sign of how well a car's been looked after.
I think the delaminating windscreen needs replacing rather than just refitting (348's and 355's can suffer from delamination on both the front and rear screens.
The sticky interior parts is a common problem on many a Ferrari (starting from 348's onwards), and can either be sorted by DIY cleaning or there is a company in the USA who specialize in restoring the parts (you remove your interior parts, ship them to the USA and then they ship them back for you to refit).
The problem is that the parts were originally given a soft texture coating which starts to "melt" over the years. When restored, the textured finish is removed and so you end up with plain hard plastic pieces (which is perfectly fine!). You could spray the parts with plasti-dip to give them a similar finish to the original but that's a personal choice, most owners don't bother (and the company in the USA do not reproduce the soft finish either).
TBH, you'll be incredibly lucky to find an original car that doesn't have sticky interior parts. Some owners have replaced all of the interior parts but this is very rare and eventually these parts will become sticky - There's no way to avoid it.
Most cars will either have the "gloop" as you call it on the interior plastics to one degree or another, or they will have hard plastic parts due to having been dealt with.
The sticky interior parts is a common problem on many a Ferrari (starting from 348's onwards), and can either be sorted by DIY cleaning or there is a company in the USA who specialize in restoring the parts (you remove your interior parts, ship them to the USA and then they ship them back for you to refit).
The problem is that the parts were originally given a soft texture coating which starts to "melt" over the years. When restored, the textured finish is removed and so you end up with plain hard plastic pieces (which is perfectly fine!). You could spray the parts with plasti-dip to give them a similar finish to the original but that's a personal choice, most owners don't bother (and the company in the USA do not reproduce the soft finish either).
TBH, you'll be incredibly lucky to find an original car that doesn't have sticky interior parts. Some owners have replaced all of the interior parts but this is very rare and eventually these parts will become sticky - There's no way to avoid it.
Most cars will either have the "gloop" as you call it on the interior plastics to one degree or another, or they will have hard plastic parts due to having been dealt with.
I assume your talking about the TH car.
One thing I noticed on this car was the lack of Photographs, TH generally has 20 plus photographs.
Its all about price, issues that you have mention can all be fixed. My car is the nuts, but has sticky bits
I'm using sticky no more in the sates soon to sort it.
Service history is paramount with these cars, 38k miles is OK for age of car. personally I would steer clear of garage queens the so called 90k collector 355's.
If you like the car, bid him on it.
happy hunting. Once you get one. look after it and you will have some great driving days
One thing I noticed on this car was the lack of Photographs, TH generally has 20 plus photographs.
Its all about price, issues that you have mention can all be fixed. My car is the nuts, but has sticky bits
I'm using sticky no more in the sates soon to sort it.
Service history is paramount with these cars, 38k miles is OK for age of car. personally I would steer clear of garage queens the so called 90k collector 355's.
If you like the car, bid him on it.
happy hunting. Once you get one. look after it and you will have some great driving days
FYI you say its got hard wax in the doorjambs etc. could it be buffing compound? if it was the fact you say the mirrors are faded might show that its had a good buff[surprising what can be done with a buffer], which would suggest the car sat uncared for over a period to need a buff/fade, you say its was an Irish car, I wouldn't know much about Ferraris or how many there are over here but I remember a red 355 that was pretty much abandoned for afew years on a farm near Ashbourne, Doubtful its the same car but you would never know
Definitely UV fade, and yes buffing paste is very possibly on the money, the UV fade I've seen it before on my wife's red Astra GTE many years ago, the boot spoiler was plastic and faded fast, I think those cars with their marmite digital dash have become sort after these days haha!!
To be honest this is the issues with many 355's, I looked at 22 rhd red / cream spiders before I bought mine and it took two years to find one.
I like others found dealers were a nightmare, I travelled all over the UK and saw many had full history, well apart from the last cam belt service and the fact that they hadn't been serviced for 3 years
There were also loads with 9,000 miles with the side bolsters worn through, funny those cars still seem to have 9,000 miles .... 9 years later !!!
The there are basically two options :
1. buy a cheap car £ 45-£50k be disappointed and then spend £20k putting it right
2. Buy a £70k car that 95% perfect in the first place
Cant comment on the op's car as I don't know the details, however there are perfect cars out there.
I know of at least three what I would call excellent cars, but the owners wouldn't part with them
If someone offered me £100k for mine I still wouldn't part with it as I could never find another one that this good
Unfortunately there is still a massive spread in these
Sure this doesn't help !!!
Phib
I like others found dealers were a nightmare, I travelled all over the UK and saw many had full history, well apart from the last cam belt service and the fact that they hadn't been serviced for 3 years
There were also loads with 9,000 miles with the side bolsters worn through, funny those cars still seem to have 9,000 miles .... 9 years later !!!
The there are basically two options :
1. buy a cheap car £ 45-£50k be disappointed and then spend £20k putting it right
2. Buy a £70k car that 95% perfect in the first place
Cant comment on the op's car as I don't know the details, however there are perfect cars out there.
I know of at least three what I would call excellent cars, but the owners wouldn't part with them
If someone offered me £100k for mine I still wouldn't part with it as I could never find another one that this good
Unfortunately there is still a massive spread in these
Sure this doesn't help !!!
Phib
phib said:
1. buy a cheap car £ 45-£50k be disappointed and then spend £20k putting it right
2. Buy a £70k car that 95% perfect in the first place
How times have changed in the last 4 years! I am so glad I managed to get my 355 ownership period in when prices weren't mental. Sad to think that a lot of people won't get to experience one of them now. Same with 550s as well.2. Buy a £70k car that 95% perfect in the first place
On the plus side 430s, 599s and gallardos are looking epic value now in comparison if you want a car to do some miles in
phib said:
Ive got he 355 and 550 issue covered ;-)
Phib
You don't have to be quite so smug about it Phib
....
I'd have loved to have kept hold of my 355 when I bought my 550, and would love to hold on to my 550 while I buy something else....alas finances do not permit. It's not so much the initial expenditure to buy the car as depreciation is minimal, if at all so it can be justified. It's just the ongoing insurance/tax/parking/servicing/maintenance costs that get me!
TOP 555 bought my 355 berlinetta when I bought my SLS from them. It has done 8500 miles was perfect when they took it but they have improved on it still further. You wont find a better one
BTW it is their car not on brokerage so I have no axe to grind just saying its a cracker - expensive because it is so perfect
BTW it is their car not on brokerage so I have no axe to grind just saying its a cracker - expensive because it is so perfect
dvb247 said:
I may well have to eat my words in time but 89k for an F1 F355 is madness regardless of the low miles
Its just the way the market is for modern classics and the same can be found with Porsche and other Marques as well. The current prices being asked for 308, 328,550 etc, not to mention 246 Dino doubling in the last few years just show the desirability of these cars and the 355 is steadily appreciating such that in the next couple of years the £89k you mention may well be seen as a bargain !!
As they become more desirable and deemed a good investment, more and more will be tucked away and owners more reluctant to sell, causing the prices to keep on appreciating.
I know its very frustrating and difficult to find the one you want at the money you want to spend but like I said before, once you find the right one you won't regret it.
Charlie
CGF993 said:
Its just the way the market is for modern classics and the same can be found with Porsche and other Marques as well.
The current prices being asked for 308, 328,550 etc, not to mention 246 Dino doubling in the last few years just show the desirability of these cars and the 355 is steadily appreciating such that in the next couple of years the £89k you mention may well be seen as a bargain !!
As they become more desirable and deemed a good investment, more and more will be tucked away and owners more reluctant to sell, causing the prices to keep on appreciating.
I know its very frustrating and difficult to find the one you want at the money you want to spend but like I said before, once you find the right one you won't regret it.
Charlie
That's what happened just before the last bubble. As prices dropped, the market was flooded with those cars that had been tucked away. The astute will already have determined what cars transcend that phenomenon and are invested in them. The current prices being asked for 308, 328,550 etc, not to mention 246 Dino doubling in the last few years just show the desirability of these cars and the 355 is steadily appreciating such that in the next couple of years the £89k you mention may well be seen as a bargain !!
As they become more desirable and deemed a good investment, more and more will be tucked away and owners more reluctant to sell, causing the prices to keep on appreciating.
I know its very frustrating and difficult to find the one you want at the money you want to spend but like I said before, once you find the right one you won't regret it.
Charlie
Where's the 355's place in that structure and what are the arguments for why a 355 can command a price that is double that of a 348 or why a 550 can command a higher price than a 575. After all, the 575 and 355 are viewed as the cars that the 348 and 550 'should have been'. A G50 3.2 Carrera is regarded as a better investment than a 915 Carrera when the only real difference is that gearbox.
'because it drivers better than...'...or...'because it has a manual gearbox'....are we talking about 355 or 575 in the first statement and are we talking 355 or 550 in the second?...
I think if you drive a modern Ferrari you have your answer.
A 458 is a stunning machine, better than a 355 on every level. (on paper)
But as a man who has driven both, a 355 has that F1 feel and sound, my spider with the roof down driven across Denbigh moor and through the Llanberis pass in snowdonia is unbeatable for the sense of feeling alive with a car.
Despite all its gismo's and astonishing acceleration the 458 and the f430 for that matter just haven't got that feel.
I think 355's will be 100k inside 12 months, look what happened to the CS once a shortage of supply happened. Most PH's adverts are dealers calling for stock.
All relative to me as I'm never selling, but nice all the same.
A 458 is a stunning machine, better than a 355 on every level. (on paper)
But as a man who has driven both, a 355 has that F1 feel and sound, my spider with the roof down driven across Denbigh moor and through the Llanberis pass in snowdonia is unbeatable for the sense of feeling alive with a car.
Despite all its gismo's and astonishing acceleration the 458 and the f430 for that matter just haven't got that feel.
I think 355's will be 100k inside 12 months, look what happened to the CS once a shortage of supply happened. Most PH's adverts are dealers calling for stock.
All relative to me as I'm never selling, but nice all the same.
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