Ferrari 360 weird problem - help really appreciated

[MagnumPI]

I am a proud owner of an F1 360 for just over 2 years and it is regularly serviced by the main dealer (last major was done 4 months ago along with a clutch change and I have done just under 800 miles since then) it is fitted with a tubi exhaust system also.

2-3 weeks ago I took it out for a leisurely spin and after driving around 40 miles, suddenly when I down changed and it blipped it sounded totally wrong - kind of like someone blowing into a bean can as opposed to the usual F1 sound / whine etc. also when driving it when the RPM is around 2.5k-3k it makes the same sound when driving, but if you drive higher RPMs the sound goes and sounds virtually normal.

I managed to drive it the 10 miles home fine (there was no obvious loss of power right through the gears) and apart from the noise / sounding wrong it seemed fine. I put it back in the garage and basically left it there until this week. I went out and started it and it sounded awful - kind of like it was misfiring and just not right at all. I looked around the engine bay and nothing obvious at all was apparent, so having had a similar problem when I first got the car (misfire, not noise) I thought it may be a coil pack had gone down ,and instead of taking chances with just one, I ordered a brand new set of 8 plugs and coil packs and there were replaced an hour or so ago.

When the car was fired up after replacing all 8 coils / plugs, it sounded great and no misfire or anything - happy days ! Except when I then took it for a drive, it sounded exactly the same and it has made no difference whatsoever and I am now EXTREMELY frustrated, which is made worse by the fact that the nearest dealer / Ferrari specialist to me is 120 miles away in Swindon.

Any advice would be truly appreciated as I am at a total loss

edit : there is no lights on the dash or warnings etc - everything is fine

Edited by MagnumPI on Friday 25th July 20:09

Edited by MagnumPI on Friday 25th July 20:18

[TISPKJ]

I would say faulty exhaust vacuum valve, however on a 360 they default to open which sounds great, think your only option is to plug into diagnostic machine before any real damage

[MagnumPI]

TISPKJ said:

I would say faulty exhaust vacuum valve, however on a 360 they default to open which sounds great, think your only option is to plug into diagnostic machine before any real damage

Thank you for your reply

I may be wrong but I think the Tubi removes the need for the exhaust vacuum valves and are therefore not connected anyway ?

I am hoping I can get some answers from others with a few other things to check first, before taking it to the dealer (120 miles away) to check on the nearest SD2 (plus there are no warnings on the dash either)

[voicey]

Just because there are no error lights doesn't mean the ECU hasn't logged a fault. Where are you? If you're in London you'd be welcome to pop round mine and I'll stick the machine on it for you.

EDIT: Sorry, re-read the OP and saw you are in Swindon.

[red_duke]

An F430 can sometimes benefit from having the battery isolated for a few minutes. Once reconnected this allows the engine management ECUs to "re-learn" fuelling and throttle positions as well as a whole host of other stuff. Not sure if the 360 Modena will respond in the same way but maybe worth a shot?

Edited by red_duke on Saturday 26th July 09:31

[MagnumPI]

voicey said:

Just because there are no error lights doesn't mean the ECU hasn't logged a fault. Where are you? If you're in London you'd be welcome to pop round mine and I'll stick the machine on it for you.

EDIT: Sorry, re-read the OP and saw you are in Swindon.

Cheers Aldous I wish I was local to you (what machine have you got ?) however I am in Swansea not Swindon (I am DHE's friend - he looks after my cars for me)

[MagnumPI]

red_duke said:

An F430 can sometimes benefit from having the battery isolated for a few minutes. Once reconnected this allows the engine management ECUs to "re-learn" fuelling and throttle positions as well as a whole host of other stuff. Not sure if the 360 Modena will respond in the same way but maybe worth a shot?

Edited by red_duke on Saturday 26th July 09:25

Thanks for the reply - I actually did try that the same time the plugs / coils were changed (it was off for an hoour) and it was exactly the same

[Chiefly]

MagnumPI said:

also when driving it when the RPM is around 2.5k-3k it makes the same sound when driving, but if you drive higher RPMs the sound goes and sounds virtually normal.

Hard to tell what sound it is making but are the cats or the exhaust system rattling? Give things a wiggle, perhaps a bracket needs nipping up.

[MagnumPI]

Chiefly said:

Hard to tell what sound it is making but are the cats or the exhaust system rattling? Give things a wiggle, perhaps a bracket needs nipping up.

No rattle at all - it is the actual 'note' which sounds totally different

[Silent1]

Have you checked the spark plugs and the injectors, it sounds like a fuelling fault.

[Ferruccio]

Sounds like it could be a cat? In which case don't drive it. But in a Lambo an engine warning light does come on?

[MagnumPI]

Silent1 said:

Have you checked the spark plugs and the injectors, it sounds like a fuelling fault.

Plugs were changed and the old ones looked fine - it doesn't have the characteristics of a fuelling fault to me (ie no loss of powr, or spluttering just the change in exhaust note at certain RPM)

[MagnumPI]

Ferruccio said:

Sounds like it could be a cat? In which case don't drive it. But in a Lambo an engine warning light does come on?

The cat is a possibility yeah, but like you mentioned for the Lambo, I think a warning light appears with light ie. SLOW DOWN but again I could be wrong.

It is VERY frustrating as the car runs and drives totally fine BUT the note / noise at 2.5k-3k rpm is totally wrong and not right at all

[voicey]

MagnumPI said:

Cheers Aldous I wish I was local to you (what machine have you got ?) however I am in Swansea not Swindon (I am DHE's friend - he looks after my cars for me)

I have a diagnostics computer that allows me to connect to the ECU's in the car. Similar to what a main dealer/specialist would have.

I recall Huw asking me about your problem. Have you got a video we can see?

[MagnumPI]

voicey said:

I have a diagnostics computer that allows me to connect to the ECU's in the car. Similar to what a main dealer/specialist would have.

I recall Huw asking me about your problem. Have you got a video we can see?

I haven't got a video, but will attempt to get one today / tomorrow. I haven't been driving it since it has happened and it can't be replicated unless actually driving it so it isn't easy.

[MagnumPI]

• UPDATE*

I took it to a local garage this afternoon, which is owned by a good friend of mine (he is a Subaru / performance car specialist) and took him for a drive in it.

As I drove it to the garage, it drove just like I described previously with the awful exhaust note (the same as it has been the past 6 times I have started it whilst testing it etc) Unbelievably the minute he got in and we went around the block the problem had vanished and I could not replicate it !

Luckily though (or unluckily depending on how you look at it) as we pulled back into the garage and I downshifted, it went back to misbehaving and he heard it - we went around the block again and he heard it exactly how it is, and could see exactly what I meant.

When we returned to the garage, we popped the bonnet and he done a bit of fault finding and also checked the gases coming from the exhaust to see if there were any issues there (they were all fine on the reading) but then he noticed the Pneumatic Actuator on the inlet manifold which he then said could be causing the issues if it wasn't working correctly - a quick Google and he found Aldous's blog post here http://aldousvoice.com/2013/01/07/ferrari-360-air-... which confirmed how the system worked and that it most certainly seems to be the likely culprit - he is stripping it down tonight once the garage is closed and will go from there tomorrow.

One point of concern though which was spotted as was in the engine bay was this (left vs right hand side of engine bay)



The left hand side is running hotter than the right hand side and has caused heat damage on the heat shield/fibre glass as you can see (and as he said it means it is running lean) he said this could also be caused by a troubled Pneumatic Actuator or MAF problem - something which he is looking into this evening also.

Any further thoughts on this with the update ? very keen to hear from you Aldous if you had a few minutes to post for me. Thank you

[voicey]

Sadly, I can't see your picture from behind the firewall at my office. If you message me through PH or my website I'll give you my email so you can send the pic over.

[MagnumPI]

voicey said:

Sadly, I can't see your picture from behind the firewall at my office. If you message me through PH or my website I'll give you my email so you can send the pic over.

Thanks Aldous - message sent through your website.

[voicey]

Also, before he starts stripping anything down has it been confirmed that it is the inlet manifold causing the issue?

You can get the action of the actuator by connecting a hand vacuum pump to the pipe that goes to the actuator - if you pull a vacuum down this pipe the valves should open. If the actuator wont operate the valves then it is probably faulty but you can operate them by hand.

Does the exhaust note change when the valves are moving?

[Cerbieherts]

Possibly an inlet manifold gasket leak. It wont always put an engine warning light on.