360 Purchase

[Fog985]

Good evening all,

I'm hoping to buy my first Ferrari imminently. I've found a 2003 360 manual spider which is in very good condition and has had a lot of money spent on it recently (new clutch, pads, discs, gearbox overhaul, new ball joints and training arms) within the last few thousand miles. It's done 30K miles and has been serviced regularly (bit of a gap between '07 & '09 but it wasn't being used much and has done 15K miles since then so I'm not that concerned).
I have been reading through these forums to try to find any snippets of advice as to what else I should be looking for and at. The spare fob and PIN seems to be essential, I wondered if anyone had any other words of advice.

It's at The Car Specialists in Sheffield, they seemed like good guys and I can't find anything disparaging about then on here or on google, but again any experiences anyone could share would be gratefully received.

Thanks

Nick

[johnnyreggae]

If you've the buyers guides etc and are happy then its PPI & enjoy

[mike01606]

If you can, post a link to the advert. Someone on here may know the car and that would be a good start.

What is the asking price? Cheap cars can soon turn out expensive if the preparation is poor.

Otherwise as above, a PPI is essential from a marque expert to make sure it doesn't have any issues and importantly isn't hiding any accident damage.
Another thing, if the car has been looked after recently by the same place. Ring them first to see if they will give you any insight on the car.

Good luck.......

[Fog985]

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

This is the advert. It's on at £45,980, I wouldn't describe it as cheap compared to some of the 360's out there, but it looks like reasonable value. Thanks both for your responses.

[voicey]

The average asking price for a 360 with 30k on the clock is £46,891. You'd want to subtract a bit for the colour so it looks like it is priced OK.

This particular car has been in my data since April when it was priced at £47,980. It was reduced to £46,980 in June and then to its current price in July. I don't have any data on this car in my database (but please contact me if you are willing to pass on the service history and VIN).

I'm always a bit suspicious of cars that have had a big recent bill to put a lot of things right. I would be concerned that the previous owner has scrimped on the maintenance during their ownership and the selling dealer has had to get work done to bring it up to scratch.

A PPI is a must.

Good luck!

EDIT: Correct typo on "willing"

Edited by voicey on Sunday 20th July 18:51

[Chiefly]

voicey said:

This particular car has been in my data since April when it was priced at £47,980. It was reduced to £46,980 in June and then to its current price in July. I don't have any data on this car in my database (but please contact me if you are will to pass on the service history and VIN).

I'm always a bit suspicious of cars that have had a big recent bill to put a lot of things right. I would be concerned that the previous owner has scrimped on the maintenance during their ownership and the selling dealer has had to get work done to bring it up to scratch.

Good intentions I'm sure but raising doubt on this car isn't helping anybody. Wear and tear is continuous, so consumables require maintenance at different times, or at the same time. Little bill, big bill, it depends on what has reached the point of replacement. People can have more sense than money.

With the exception of the hot-cakes, please bear in mind that these cars are not high turn-over items. If the dealer had to buy and sell a car within a week then they'd be in a different market segment. Likewise, these markets move around through the various fluctuations. Prices may also have to increase to cover Business rates, finance etc while it has been in stock.

I'd be wary of collecting this data and randomly posting it on the Internet as you see fit. It will frustrate sellers and potentially blunt what should be an enjoyable buying experience.

Edited by Chiefly on Sunday 20th July 10:12

[rubystone]

Chiefly said:

Good intentions I'm sure but raising doubt on this car isn't helping anybody. Wear and tear is continuous, so consumables require maintenance at different times, or at the same time. Little bill, big bill, it depends on what has reached the point of replacement. People can have more sense than money.

With the exception of the hot-cakes, please bear in mind that these cars are not high turn-over items. If the dealer had to buy and sell a car within a week then they'd be in a different market segment. Likewise, these markets move around through the various fluctuations. Prices may also have to increase to cover Business rates, finance etc while it has been in stock.

I'd be wary of collecting this data and randomly posting it on the Internet as you see fit. It will frustrate sellers and potentially blunt what should be an enjoyable buying experience.

Edited by Chiefly on Sunday 20th July 10:12

He has every right to post that...I'm wondering about your comment about raising prices to cover costs...surely a trader wants to shift stock?....raising the price isn't sensible...unless of course market values have risen...but I do agree fwiw that big bills aren't an indication of whether a car is good or bad

[Chiefly]

Yes exactly that. Advertised for a certain price for a month or two, the market moves while the costs are increasing so the asking price goes up. Shortly followed by Internet pitchfork waving

[renmure]

Seems like a decent car. I think the 430 graphite alloys go well with it.
I just get frustrated with sellers when the advert says,

"NO EXPENSE SPARED"

and

"WITH A FULL SERVICE HISTORY"

And the reality seems to be,

"and has been serviced regularly (bit of a gap between '07 & '09 but it wasn't being used much"

Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not, but they aren't the same thing.

[voicey]

Chiefly said:

Good intentions I'm sure but raising doubt on this car isn't helping anybody. Wear and tear is continuous, so consumables require maintenance at different times, or at the same time. Little bill, big bill, it depends on what has reached the point of replacement. People can have more sense than money.

With the exception of the hot-cakes, please bear in mind that these cars are not high turn-over items. If the dealer had to buy and sell a car within a week then they'd be in a different market segment. Likewise, these markets move around through the various fluctuations. Prices may also have to increase to cover Business rates, finance etc while it has been in stock.

I'd be wary of collecting this data and randomly posting it on the Internet as you see fit. It will frustrate sellers and potentially blunt what should be an enjoyable buying experience.

Edited by Chiefly on Sunday 20th July 10:12

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If anyone doesn't like what I have written then they know where to find me.

I've not said that this car is good or bad - I have stated that the price has fallen over the last few months and that the pricing is in line with the current averages.

With regards to saying that I would be suspicious of a big spend prior to sale - it is my opinion. Sadly, there are lots of cars out there where the owners have not bothered with servicing. When it comes time to sell the car they find they have to have a lot of things done to get it fit for sale. These cars are out there - I have seen and inspected many. Personally, I wouldn't want to buy a car that has been run like this. A good sort through the service records will give you an idea of how the prior owners have looked after the car.

I am sorry that you think I was trying to raise doubt on this car - I wasn't. I think purchasers should tread very carefully and do all their homework if they don't want to buy a bad egg.

Edited by voicey on Sunday 20th July 15:26

[Chiefly]

So you'll disregard a car because it has had a large amount of recent service work carried out on it? Or if I may put it the other way, a car that may not need anything doing to it for sometime because it has all just been completed.

With the 2 year servicing schedule, the European 360 market must be on it's knees

As I say, this isn't helping anyone, particular if you plan on building up a service history database and then putting people off as above.

To the OP, have a reputable PPI completed and don't be concerned about a large service invoice.

[voicey]

Chiefly said:

So you'll disregard a car because it has had a large amount of recent service work carried out on it? Or if I may put it the other way, a car that may not need anything doing to it for sometime because it has all just been completed.

With the 2 year servicing schedule, the European 360 market must be on it's knees

As I say, this isn't helping anyone, particular if you plan on building up a service history database and then putting people off as above.

To the OP, have a reputable PPI completed and don't be concerned about a large service invoice.

I think you must have a different version of PH. For the avoidance of doubt, here's what I wrote:

voicey said:

I'm always a bit suspicious of cars that have had a big recent bill to put a lot of things right. I would be concerned that the previous owner has scrimped on the maintenance during their ownership and the selling dealer has had to get work done to bring it up to scratch.

A PPI is a must.

Where have I said anything that would suggest I am recommending disregarding this car? I'm voicing, no pun intended, my concerns on cars that have big bills prior to sale (for reasons mentioned earlier).

Also, what makes you think European 360s have a different servicing schedule to those in the UK (or any other territory for that matter)?

[Chiefly]

voicey said:

Where have I said anything that would suggest I am recommending disregarding this car?

Where you've implied to be suspicious of cars that have had a recent large service bill.

voicey said:

Also, what makes you think European 360s have a different servicing schedule to those in the UK (or any other territory for that matter)?

Rightly or wrongly, European 360s tend to go for servicing every two years.

[voicey]

We're going round in circles. I've stated my reasons why I am suspicious of cars with large bills immediately prior to sale but also said what can be done to mitigate those suspicions. You have your opinions and I have mine.

OP: I have figured out who the vendors are and may have some pertinent info for you. I'd be happy to take your call if you drop me a PM through this site. Email me

[Fog985]

Hi all, first off thank you all for your responses. I see there have been some differences of opinions but I actually really value the contrasting voices and they're all useful.
Voicey (and other); my original post is possibly a little misleading, or at least incomplete, re. the recent work. This was actually in two chunks, the last owner went in a European tour and had the clutch, pads & discs done before he went to avoid issues. The clutch had 17K on it so it wasn't far off due. This was at 27K, 12 months ago, since then it's done another 3K and the dealer has done the rest of the work in preparing it for sale. I'm pretty comfortable with the reasons. I also think the FSH claim is a little bold, but it hasn't missed either a minor or major service on mileage and there is a good amount of paperwork so I understand how the dealer is justifying themselves.
The dealer has also been good in promising to put right some minor issues (damaged grill under the radiator etc), in chasing up information from the last owner and in providing a contact at the last place that serviced it for me to talk to.

[Fog985]

Rubystone, Chiefly & renmure; thanks for weighing in, it's reassuring to here the argument against discarding a car based on a recent big bill (although I think voicey's point was caution), what seems to be universally agreed is that a ppi is a good idea. Would any if you know anyone you'd recommend in the Midlands/Yorkshire area, and/or do you know what sort of cost they'd be. I have done some googling but keep hitting places that don't provide a price or just look like lead-gen.

Voicey, I really like the idea of a database (that is probably a function of the fact I'm a bit of a data monkey at work), I'd love to have a decent sample of pricing data to try to understand the market, seeing just a snapshot of it (well a few months whilst looking) isn't really enough. I'd be happy to provide additional info on the car if I buy it.

[renmure]

You will find loads of info, a buyers guide and some info on PPI on this excellent website: http://www.walkersport.co.uk/

My point earlier about the service history wasn't intended to knock the car but, like it or lump it, they are supposed to be serviced annually and if they haven't been then they don't have a full and complete service history and you can be sure that every buyer and his dog will point that out to you when you come to sell. It probably doesn't really matter anyhow, but it obviously matters enough to the current seller to do a bit of clouding the issue. Still looks a decent car tho.

[Mike Brown]

Many people who own these cars do not frequent these forums and do not give two hoots about annual servicing, they rightly or wrongly perceive 3k in two years as something not to worry about. I only use 3k as an example, if the car is good and the last service was from a main dealer and all jobs have been done as required there really is not much to worry about. This servicing issue borders on paranoia. Mike

[Cerbieherts]

Mike Brown said:

Many people who own these cars do not frequent these forums and do not give two hoots about annual servicing, they rightly or wrongly perceive 3k in two years as something not to worry about. I only use 3k as an example, if the car is good and the last service was from a main dealer and all jobs have been done as required there really is not much to worry about. This servicing issue borders on paranoia. Mike

I wouldn't call it paranoia. I've personally had to deal with the mess created by lack of regular service and deferred repairs. I've also seen main dealer cars with belts set up wrong, badly fitted clutches etc etc...just because they have a dealer sign above the door it doesn't mean they are the best in the business...

[Mike Brown]

Cerbieherts I totally agree with you, I was just trying to put some perspective on it,regards Mike