355 Spider Buying Advice
Discussion
After weeks of looking for Ferrari 355 GTS or Spider to buy and multiple disappointments with cars that have been sold 'one hour ago', I've now put a deposit on a 1996 Spider at a dealer near London. It has only done 11,000 miles, three previous owners and is in beautiful condition.
Two years ago, the previous owner put it into a Ferrari main dealer, where they went over it with a fine tooth comb and spent £12,000 replacing everything deemed necessary.
It will be serviced by the dealer before I take delivery, including changing cam belts.
My question is whether it is advisable to have an independent inspection first?
I have read that there are issues with manifolds needing to be replaced, valve guide wear and problems with the rams that work the roof.
Two years ago, the previous owner put it into a Ferrari main dealer, where they went over it with a fine tooth comb and spent £12,000 replacing everything deemed necessary.
It will be serviced by the dealer before I take delivery, including changing cam belts.
My question is whether it is advisable to have an independent inspection first?
I have read that there are issues with manifolds needing to be replaced, valve guide wear and problems with the rams that work the roof.
Without a doubt, spending a few hundred quid on a proper PPI will be worth every penny. If it comes back with a clean bill of health you'll have the confidence to buy without any doubt in your mind however, I suspect a few things will be picked up which means you can get them sorted as part of the sale.
ravins4 said:
My question is whether it is advisable to have an independent inspection first?
I have read that there are issues with manifolds needing to be replaced, valve guide wear and problems with the rams that work the roof.
For example : just because these were checked two years ago does not mean they are ok todayI have read that there are issues with manifolds needing to be replaced, valve guide wear and problems with the rams that work the roof.
For example : do you know how good is the vendor's service department ?
All might well check out good but three hundred quid (ish) if you are spending sixty grand says better safe than sorry
If you haven't already read this : http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=893...
If it's on original manifolds, or replacement Ferrari items, they will go again at some point. And at only 11k miles, it could well have the problematic bronze valve guides.
I don't want to put you off, but I bought a 355 from a knowledgeable, mechanically-minded owner (hello Paul!) with a huge history (and admittedly over 40k miles, now into the 50s) and it will have had getting on for ten grand's worth of work done on it by the end of my second year of ownership - that's an engine out belt service with some subframe welding and other bits and bobs, a Kevlar clutch, machined pressure plate and pumpkin bearing, rear tyres and replacement non-Ferrari manifolds... oh and did I mention a few other bits and bobs? That's about a pound a mile in maintenance, but hopefully it will come down as I'm fixing things properly when they come up rather than taking shortcuts or ignoring problems.
I'm rambling, but the point is that I've spent 10k at indies and DIY doing that, so 12k at a dealer won't actually buy you a whole lot in terms of replacement parts and labour, and doesn't make this particular car special (Ferrari want 7k parts+labour for manifolds alone). Find out what was actually done during the overhaul and post the list here and we'll hopefully be able to add some more detailed comments.
Oh and, if you do end up buying it, slap a Capristo on it, if it hasn't already got one... any bills will then seem completely worth it!
I don't want to put you off, but I bought a 355 from a knowledgeable, mechanically-minded owner (hello Paul!) with a huge history (and admittedly over 40k miles, now into the 50s) and it will have had getting on for ten grand's worth of work done on it by the end of my second year of ownership - that's an engine out belt service with some subframe welding and other bits and bobs, a Kevlar clutch, machined pressure plate and pumpkin bearing, rear tyres and replacement non-Ferrari manifolds... oh and did I mention a few other bits and bobs? That's about a pound a mile in maintenance, but hopefully it will come down as I'm fixing things properly when they come up rather than taking shortcuts or ignoring problems.
I'm rambling, but the point is that I've spent 10k at indies and DIY doing that, so 12k at a dealer won't actually buy you a whole lot in terms of replacement parts and labour, and doesn't make this particular car special (Ferrari want 7k parts+labour for manifolds alone). Find out what was actually done during the overhaul and post the list here and we'll hopefully be able to add some more detailed comments.
Oh and, if you do end up buying it, slap a Capristo on it, if it hasn't already got one... any bills will then seem completely worth it!
Edited by redwedge on Wednesday 16th July 00:17
I know, lucky to have bought at the right time really. The issues I've had aren't out of the ordinary on a 17-year old Ferrari either. Plus, every job done properly is one less thing to worry about. I could quite easily paid 20k more for a 355 and had exactly the same costs.
It's still my dream motor, well, it is until I can put the 16M replacement on the drive, which isn't happening anytime soon.
It's still my dream motor, well, it is until I can put the 16M replacement on the drive, which isn't happening anytime soon.
I purchased my 355 spider with 14,000miles from a main dealer 2 years ago with 2 previous owners. I still had an independent PPI done which found a few very minor issues which the dealer sorted before I collected the car. Worth it for the peace of mind.
Since then I have just had a cam belt service at my local main dealer (colchester) and the car got the full once over! Pleased to say they could find nothing at all that needed doing other than belts of course.
Lots of scaremongering out there on these (and other f) cars but touch-wood mine has run like a dream since I have had it.
Get it checked and go for it
Since then I have just had a cam belt service at my local main dealer (colchester) and the car got the full once over! Pleased to say they could find nothing at all that needed doing other than belts of course.
Lots of scaremongering out there on these (and other f) cars but touch-wood mine has run like a dream since I have had it.
Get it checked and go for it
congrats on your purchase!
I have had continuous 355 spider ownership since 2006 and had no issues like you hear about...indeed my current 355 was bought from Slades garage and after they delivered it the new fabric roof they fitted as part of the sale had a fault and they flew someone up here to the east coast of Scotland and had it removed and replaced; fantastic service and a big thumbs up for Lee...you shall have no worries buying from these guys.
It does get a bit tiresome reading about how a 355 can bankrupt you...I have found them to be very reliable if looked after.
I only sold my previous le mans blu one spider as Lee contacted me to say he had the last of the line uber rare manual fiorano handling spider for sale...I had tried to buy it before but it sold within the weekend and true to his word he called me when he was offered it again.
Manual 355's are only going one way in value, and in my biased opinion the spiders are the pick of the bunch as you have an uninterrupted subjection to the best Ferrari v8 howl with the roof down...just a magnificent sound!
enjoy!
I have had continuous 355 spider ownership since 2006 and had no issues like you hear about...indeed my current 355 was bought from Slades garage and after they delivered it the new fabric roof they fitted as part of the sale had a fault and they flew someone up here to the east coast of Scotland and had it removed and replaced; fantastic service and a big thumbs up for Lee...you shall have no worries buying from these guys.
It does get a bit tiresome reading about how a 355 can bankrupt you...I have found them to be very reliable if looked after.
I only sold my previous le mans blu one spider as Lee contacted me to say he had the last of the line uber rare manual fiorano handling spider for sale...I had tried to buy it before but it sold within the weekend and true to his word he called me when he was offered it again.
Manual 355's are only going one way in value, and in my biased opinion the spiders are the pick of the bunch as you have an uninterrupted subjection to the best Ferrari v8 howl with the roof down...just a magnificent sound!
enjoy!
355spiderguy said:
It does get a bit tiresome reading about how a 355 can bankrupt you...I have found them to be very reliable if looked after.
It's equally tiresome reading about how a 355 only costs the same to run as a fast Golf, it's complete nonsense (IME) if you're putting miles on them and driving them reasonably hard.If the odd £3k bill will bankrupt you, the 355 is the last Ferrari you should be looking at, lovely as they are.
I would go as far to say you need a program of expenditure with one. Mines almost 18 years old. I have spent 10k this year alone. If you don't spend it, you will get hammered at some point. I would want to see all the bills of any car I was buying.
Just refurbished the hydraulic roof rams and motor as well as all new hydraulic lines, cost be 5k.
Fantastic cars, but do not kid yourself they need proper looking after
Just refurbished the hydraulic roof rams and motor as well as all new hydraulic lines, cost be 5k.
Fantastic cars, but do not kid yourself they need proper looking after
redwedge said:
355spiderguy said:
It does get a bit tiresome reading about how a 355 can bankrupt you...I have found them to be very reliable if looked after.
It's equally tiresome reading about how a 355 only costs the same to run as a fast Golf, it's complete nonsense (IME) if you're putting miles on them and driving them reasonably hard.If the odd £3k bill will bankrupt you, the 355 is the last Ferrari you should be looking at, lovely as they are.
wading in immediately with the usual horror stories of valve guide issue ( which is very uncommon; see how many people pitch in that it actually happened to them rather then the people whom post about it even it never happened to them but read about it somewhere ) and the cracked manifolds story ( every car going can suffer from manifold failures and QV do very reasonable priced replacements for the F355...why frighten with headline £7k Ferrari price?!)
In 8 years of ownership of 2 spiders I have never had cracked manifolds or valve guide issues...just routine servicing and the usual consumable replacement; nothing overly expensive or frightening even though carried out by Ferrari at Fort Kinnaird...that is my experience hence my post.
Spending £10k in 2 years makes me think that your cars previous 'very knowledgeable' owner had more than a bit of knowledge about impending expensive outlays and decided it best if someone else took that hit; I can only assume you bought at the lower end price wise which I guess compensates for the outlays...like everything you pays your money.
OP, car looks lovely; by all means have an inspection carried out ( I personally never bothered with either of my spiders prior to purchase ), but most importantly get it bought, enjoy it and only worry about something going wrong if it goes wrong; even if it does I imagine Lee at Slades would bend over backwards to rectify any issues ( if that is indeed where you are purchasing from ).
You sound like a real expert.
I've owned my car since new. It's done 28k miles
And this year I spent 10k on it.
It's almost 18 years old.
These cars bite and you need to buy one with open eyes and take what any dealer says with a pinch of salt
A yellow car will be difficult to shift compared to a red or TdF coloured car, all these things need to be thought of if you intend to sell down the line
Lots of yellow cars around at present
I've owned my car since new. It's done 28k miles
And this year I spent 10k on it.
It's almost 18 years old.
These cars bite and you need to buy one with open eyes and take what any dealer says with a pinch of salt
A yellow car will be difficult to shift compared to a red or TdF coloured car, all these things need to be thought of if you intend to sell down the line
Lots of yellow cars around at present
Birkin1932 said:
You sound like a real expert.
I've owned my car since new. It's done 28k miles
And this year I spent 10k on it.
It's almost 18 years old.
These cars bite and you need to buy one with open eyes and take what any dealer says with a pinch of salt
A yellow car will be difficult to shift compared to a red or TdF coloured car, all these things need to be thought of if you intend to sell down the line
Lots of yellow cars around at present
well, whilst no 'expert', it seems as though I have had twice the amount of 355 spiders as you so maybe I was able to offer a different view from yourself....I've owned my car since new. It's done 28k miles
And this year I spent 10k on it.
It's almost 18 years old.
These cars bite and you need to buy one with open eyes and take what any dealer says with a pinch of salt
A yellow car will be difficult to shift compared to a red or TdF coloured car, all these things need to be thought of if you intend to sell down the line
Lots of yellow cars around at present
the OP has posted he has put a deposit on a car he thinks is beautiful, posted a picture of it and asked if it may be prudent to have an inspection before completing the purchase..
it has now developed into a thread going on about valve guides issues, manifolds which will fail, 2 posts mentioning £10k maintenance spends and now its a poor colour choice 'cause there are loads of them and will be hard to sell...
pat yourself on the back guys...
Birkin1932 said:
You sound like a real expert.
I've owned my car since new. It's done 28k miles
And this year I spent 10k on it.
It's almost 18 years old.
These cars bite and you need to buy one with open eyes and take what any dealer says with a pinch of salt
A yellow car will be difficult to shift compared to a red or TdF coloured car, all these things need to be thought of if you intend to sell down the line
Lots of yellow cars around at present
Interested in why would yellow be considered more difficult to sell? It looks great on so many open top ferrari's... f50, 355, 16m.... its not really an unusual or disliked colour is it?I've owned my car since new. It's done 28k miles
And this year I spent 10k on it.
It's almost 18 years old.
These cars bite and you need to buy one with open eyes and take what any dealer says with a pinch of salt
A yellow car will be difficult to shift compared to a red or TdF coloured car, all these things need to be thought of if you intend to sell down the line
Lots of yellow cars around at present
genuinely curious about tbis comment !
355spiderguy said:
well, whilst no 'expert', it seems as though I have had twice the amount of 355 spiders as you so maybe I was able to offer a different view from yourself....
the OP has posted he has put a deposit on a car he thinks is beautiful, posted a picture of it and asked if it may be prudent to have an inspection before completing the purchase..
it has now developed into a thread going on about valve guides issues, manifolds which will fail, 2 posts mentioning £10k maintenance spends and now its a poor colour choice 'cause there are loads of them and will be hard to sell...
As I'm reading this thread, all it's saying is to go into buying these cars with your eyes wide open!the OP has posted he has put a deposit on a car he thinks is beautiful, posted a picture of it and asked if it may be prudent to have an inspection before completing the purchase..
it has now developed into a thread going on about valve guides issues, manifolds which will fail, 2 posts mentioning £10k maintenance spends and now its a poor colour choice 'cause there are loads of them and will be hard to sell...
Things can go wrong with them and they can be expensive to put right! (Which is basically why the OP is asking about having a PPI done in the first place!).
You've never encountered the valve guide issue or cracked manifolds? - Well there we have it, obviously these issues are completely made up and don't exist then!
To give the impression that these cars don't suffer from some issues based on the ownership of a couple of cars would be irresponsible! - After all, you may have just been lucky!
(Of course, if you're that convinced about the reliability of these cars and that the OP's car will not suffer from the issues mentioned then you could always offer your personal guarantee and offer to pay the full repair costs should anything go wrong with their car! How about it? - Thought not!
)The colour?: it is a fact that certain colours sell better than others. Red is always the most popular (it's not called re-sale red for nothing!), and TDF blue is probably the second most favourite colour. Yellow can be a hard colour to sell but if the OP likes it and isn't interested in reselling the car any time soon then it shouldn't be a major issue.
As for:
355spiderguy said:
pat yourself on the back guys...
Yes! - Pat yourselves on the back guys! Because a least you're being more realistic about the risks in owning a 355 spider and not leading them to believe that nothing ever goes wrong!The reason I mentioned the Ferrari headline price was because I was trying to give the OP an idea of what £12k buys you in a main dealer service dept, i.e. not as much as you might think.
Regarding my purchase, "the manifolds are going to crack in 10000 miles" isn't something you'll find written on a PPI report and most of the other bills were for servicing and consumables.
I don't want to put anyone off buying a 355. I love mine and don't ever intend to sell it. OP - go for it!
Regarding my purchase, "the manifolds are going to crack in 10000 miles" isn't something you'll find written on a PPI report and most of the other bills were for servicing and consumables.
I don't want to put anyone off buying a 355. I love mine and don't ever intend to sell it. OP - go for it!
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