458 v 488 market
Discussion
WCZ said:
after being confident for many years, I too am starting to think that there's a bit of a crash coming
nothing will stop the 458 being one of the greatest cars of all time though
might be worth grabbing a couple if they hit sub 100k
Wishful thinking. Absolutely no chance. The low is now, it's all up from here on.nothing will stop the 458 being one of the greatest cars of all time though
might be worth grabbing a couple if they hit sub 100k
WCZ said:
after being confident for many years, I too am starting to think that there's a bit of a crash coming
nothing will stop the 458 being one of the greatest cars of all time though
might be worth grabbing a couple if they hit sub 100k
whats making you think that as of right now?nothing will stop the 458 being one of the greatest cars of all time though
might be worth grabbing a couple if they hit sub 100k
Nuttbelle said:
Dealers retail prices are artificially high and reality will sink in if you get a trade bid.
Dealer margins are far higher than I have ever seen before.
Cars aren't selling and stocking costs are high so they have to build in huge margins
This.Dealer margins are far higher than I have ever seen before.
Cars aren't selling and stocking costs are high so they have to build in huge margins
3-4yr ago a dealer would operate around 10-20k profit on a circa 150k car.
Now they are typically trying to achieve 20-30k profit on 150k cars.
Trade 3-4yr ago would of been circa 125-130k.
Trade now you looking 110-115k.
Dealers have ramped margins, some out of necessity due to increased overheads and downturn, better to sell one car than two cars, yet make same profit, plus less risk. Some are just greedy.
Market is still pretty strong though, good spec cars generally moving, but it is now more a buyers market, rather than sellers.
I suspect the big lows will hit Jan/Feb next year, then dependent on interest rates and cost of living etc. Spring 2024 could see a recovery or further downturn if things go bad.
Anyone not planning on selling in next 12-18 months need not worry really, as with all things you only lose when you sell, so don't sell.
I got very strong money from a Ferrari dealer for my 488GTB a month ago. They sold it days after, it never even made it to Autotrader.
I bought my new 812SF from Dick Lovett the day they got it, it was never advertised. Previously, I lost out on another that sold to someone over the phone. When I picked up my 812SF three Friday's ago, I had to be there at 9am, as they were handing over 7 cars that day.
Really nice cars don't sit around.... Basic spec cars are now sitting in inventory forever. I have been tracking unsold 812's for over 9 months.
I bought my new 812SF from Dick Lovett the day they got it, it was never advertised. Previously, I lost out on another that sold to someone over the phone. When I picked up my 812SF three Friday's ago, I had to be there at 9am, as they were handing over 7 cars that day.
Really nice cars don't sit around.... Basic spec cars are now sitting in inventory forever. I have been tracking unsold 812's for over 9 months.
speedbird1000 said:
Its the covid era money printing that will push good 458s to towards £200 k soon, once interest rates drop off IMHO.
That could be quite a long time though, don't forget that the sub 1% interest rates seen for the last 10 years are an aberration, historically speaking today's interest rate isn't high; it's just a return to the long term average. Inflation is proving highly resilient, and many market professionals aren't predicting a sub 4% base rate until 2025, with continued rises in the short term.oharedm said:
I got very strong money from a Ferrari dealer for my 488GTB a month ago. They sold it days after, it never even made it to Autotrader.
I bought my new 812SF from Dick Lovett the day they got it, it was never advertised. Previously, I lost out on another that sold to someone over the phone. When I picked up my 812SF three Friday's ago, I had to be there at 9am, as they were handing over 7 cars that day.
Really nice cars don't sit around.... Basic spec cars are now sitting in inventory forever. I have been tracking unsold 812's for over 9 months.
Been doing exactly the same thing, tracking Portofino and Roma prices for 9-12 months. And see the same result; great spec are gone in a few days/couple of weeks max, low or average spec is hanging around for months. There is probably even more that we do not see as you confirmed from your experience. Interesting times. I bought my new 812SF from Dick Lovett the day they got it, it was never advertised. Previously, I lost out on another that sold to someone over the phone. When I picked up my 812SF three Friday's ago, I had to be there at 9am, as they were handing over 7 cars that day.
Really nice cars don't sit around.... Basic spec cars are now sitting in inventory forever. I have been tracking unsold 812's for over 9 months.
murphyaj said:
speedbird1000 said:
Its the covid era money printing that will push good 458s to towards £200 k soon, once interest rates drop off IMHO.
That could be quite a long time though, don't forget that the sub 1% interest rates seen for the last 10 years are an aberration, historically speaking today's interest rate isn't high; it's just a return to the long term average. Inflation is proving highly resilient, and many market professionals aren't predicting a sub 4% base rate until 2025, with continued rises in the short term.Overall market has definitely come down which is a natural consequence of rate hikes and COVID era cash being spent. With that said, good spec and condition 458s are limited so will IMHO contribute to trade at strong values. I’ve been tracking autotrader for the past year and the good ones do sell and they’re not even the optimal spec necessarily. I bought at market peak last summer but haven’t seen a comparable car come up on auto trader since.
If you’re not bothered about spec and condition and just want to jump into a 458 it’s definitely gotten cheaper and will probably continue to do so. If you’re not in a rush the sensible thing to do is wait until winter and see where prices go. The prices of all kinds of assets are finding new levels in this higher rate environment but it will bottom out at some point.
These cars cost a LOT of money which is why I get people are so fixated on price but they are ultimately a luxury item meant purely for enjoyment and I really wouldn't look at these cars as any kind of investment. Yes, I’ll probably lose some money when it comes time to sell but I’ve enjoyed every minute in my car and if I lose money I consider it money well spent. They are so special and the 458 in particular is one of the greats for all the reasons mentioned on these forums. I used to have a 911 which I absolutely loved but this car is a whole different level and an experience worth paying for.
Time is also moving on and I personally don’t have so many years left where I can pull off driving a 458 ;-)
If you want one, get one. Unless you really can’t afford it, you will enjoy every moment owning it.
If you’re not bothered about spec and condition and just want to jump into a 458 it’s definitely gotten cheaper and will probably continue to do so. If you’re not in a rush the sensible thing to do is wait until winter and see where prices go. The prices of all kinds of assets are finding new levels in this higher rate environment but it will bottom out at some point.
These cars cost a LOT of money which is why I get people are so fixated on price but they are ultimately a luxury item meant purely for enjoyment and I really wouldn't look at these cars as any kind of investment. Yes, I’ll probably lose some money when it comes time to sell but I’ve enjoyed every minute in my car and if I lose money I consider it money well spent. They are so special and the 458 in particular is one of the greats for all the reasons mentioned on these forums. I used to have a 911 which I absolutely loved but this car is a whole different level and an experience worth paying for.
Time is also moving on and I personally don’t have so many years left where I can pull off driving a 458 ;-)
If you want one, get one. Unless you really can’t afford it, you will enjoy every moment owning it.
Edited by HotWheels82 on Friday 16th June 07:59
HotWheels82 said:
Time is also moving on and I personally don’t have so many years left where I can pull off driving a 458 ;-)
If you want one, get one. Unless you really can’t afford it, you will enjoy every moment owning it.
If you want one, get one. Unless you really can’t afford it, you will enjoy every moment owning it.
Edited by HotWheels82 on Friday 16th June 07:59
Yeah 50 + year old guys in a Ferrari is not a good look. Too many people deliberate for years and determine its always too expensive but YOLO and you cant take it with you
Nuttbelle said:
Yeah 50 + year old guys in a Ferrari is not a good look.
1) Who gives a s
t.2) I'm not sure that's true. I'm pretty sure 95% of people don't give the car a 2nd glance because most people just don't care about cars, and the 5% that do are looking at the car and not the driver. My Son is car mad, if a 488 drove past he'd point it out in an instant; if I then asked him if a man or a woman was driving it he wouldn't be able to tell me. My Wife on the other hand could be passed by a LaFerrari Aperta and wouldn't even notice it.
I know we all like to think that all the women we drive past on the street are staring as us, convinced that our supercar makes us look like a movie star, but it's just not the case.
murphyaj said:
Nuttbelle said:
Yeah 50 + year old guys in a Ferrari is not a good look.
1) Who gives a s
t.2) I'm not sure that's true. I'm pretty sure 95% of people don't give the car a 2nd glance because most people just don't care about cars, and the 5% that do are looking at the car and not the driver. My Son is car mad, if a 488 drove past he'd point it out in an instant; if I then asked him if a man or a woman was driving it he wouldn't be able to tell me. My Wife on the other hand could be passed by a LaFerrari Aperta and wouldn't even notice it.
I know we all like to think that all the women we drive past on the street are staring as us, convinced that our supercar makes us look like a movie star, but it's just not the case.
It’s a familiar trope that’s trotted out every now and then and it is of course complete b
ks. When I first started driving mine, I was massively self-conscious and then quickly realised that the star of the show was the car, not me. I really couldn’t give a stuff what people think of me when I’m driving and I don’t pretend to be anything other than me when I’m in it. Well I am screwed, 51 in July, grey on the large side and own a poverty spec 458 IE not carbon race seats 
The Reality is, i couldn't give a toss about values or appearance and drive all my cars irrelevant to what other think.
I have a good friend who brought a new lamborghini countach back in 1990 Circa £100K (still got it) around early 2000's we were having dinner and i discussed the value of it which was around £30K ish, i said that's a lot of money to loose, is reply "i have not sold it so hasn't lost anything" and that's my point you only know the true cost when you come to sell it.
The Reality is, i couldn't give a toss about values or appearance and drive all my cars irrelevant to what other think.
I have a good friend who brought a new lamborghini countach back in 1990 Circa £100K (still got it) around early 2000's we were having dinner and i discussed the value of it which was around £30K ish, i said that's a lot of money to loose, is reply "i have not sold it so hasn't lost anything" and that's my point you only know the true cost when you come to sell it.
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