993 without impeccable history
Discussion
Hi all,
Wanted to get the view of some of the seasoned classic owners. I am looking for 993 at the moment, ideally CS or C4S.
Not much on the market at the moment, however I have seen a few cars that don’t have full history, there are some gaps in their early days, however more recent history is better.
One is fairly low for its age 50k, the other is higher 90k. I will be buying to enjoy, but resell in maybe 3-4 years is also a consideration. I have never purchased anything with service history gaps and wondered if I should just treat as a red flag?
Boths cars are at Ashgood and a dealer I trust and have dealt with in the past. Like to get some perspectives please?
Thanks
G
Wanted to get the view of some of the seasoned classic owners. I am looking for 993 at the moment, ideally CS or C4S.
Not much on the market at the moment, however I have seen a few cars that don’t have full history, there are some gaps in their early days, however more recent history is better.
One is fairly low for its age 50k, the other is higher 90k. I will be buying to enjoy, but resell in maybe 3-4 years is also a consideration. I have never purchased anything with service history gaps and wondered if I should just treat as a red flag?
Boths cars are at Ashgood and a dealer I trust and have dealt with in the past. Like to get some perspectives please?
Thanks
G
The more modern mantra to buying a 993 is to 'Buy on condition'.
As far as 'history' is concerned, the only thing that matters is oil-changes, and the engines are fairly bombproof anyway. The original service schedule only called for oil-filters to be changed every other service - 12 litres of oil means that the oil integrity will hold up very well.
I bought mine in 2008 with a non-impeccable history. It's been impeccable.
But if you are worried about selling and needing huge binders of history, no-expense-spared statements, never seen rain etc etc, I think those days are mostly gone (thank goodness).
As far as 'history' is concerned, the only thing that matters is oil-changes, and the engines are fairly bombproof anyway. The original service schedule only called for oil-filters to be changed every other service - 12 litres of oil means that the oil integrity will hold up very well.
I bought mine in 2008 with a non-impeccable history. It's been impeccable.
But if you are worried about selling and needing huge binders of history, no-expense-spared statements, never seen rain etc etc, I think those days are mostly gone (thank goodness).
Edited by Orangecurry on Wednesday 17th July 10:24
I know it’s a genuine question but it does make me giggle when I read these threads, I’m looking at a car, it missed two services by 6 months 20 years back, should I worry :-/
As said above, get an inspection and buy in condition more than history tbh, if you get it a bit cheaper because of a non perfect history even better…just means you get to drive about in the exact same car you got cheaper than someone else that needed a book stamped to T.
As said above, get an inspection and buy in condition more than history tbh, if you get it a bit cheaper because of a non perfect history even better…just means you get to drive about in the exact same car you got cheaper than someone else that needed a book stamped to T.
Youforreal. said:
I know it’s a genuine question but it does make me giggle when I read these threads, I’m looking at a car, it missed two services by 6 months 20 years back, should I worry :-/
As said above, get an inspection and buy in condition more than history tbh, if you get it a bit cheaper because of a non perfect history even better…just means you get to drive about in the exact same car you got cheaper than someone else that needed a book stamped to T.
It’s a bit like adverts for E46 M3’s which are 20 years old and have done 125k miles, that state categorically :As said above, get an inspection and buy in condition more than history tbh, if you get it a bit cheaper because of a non perfect history even better…just means you get to drive about in the exact same car you got cheaper than someone else that needed a book stamped to T.
“All important 1200 mile service carried out on time”
I’d be more concerned about the 10 previous owners who’ve ragged it senseless from cold, than that first service being carried out a month and 250 miles late…
Condition first, history second if that car is that old. Maybe try and secure a warranty from the dealer. With my 20 year old car I managed a 12 month warranty that covered everything (had new synchro and aircon compressor plus a few niggles sorted)
A friend has a 993 C2 s - lovely car that wants for nothing does a couple of thousand miles a year, some years has sizeable bills, it let him down once when the immobiliser failed. Unlike his 930 Turbo which despite him having a nut and bolt restoration let him down frequently.
A friend has a 993 C2 s - lovely car that wants for nothing does a couple of thousand miles a year, some years has sizeable bills, it let him down once when the immobiliser failed. Unlike his 930 Turbo which despite him having a nut and bolt restoration let him down frequently.
Slippydiff said:
Youforreal. said:
I know it’s a genuine question but it does make me giggle when I read these threads, I’m looking at a car, it missed two services by 6 months 20 years back, should I worry :-/
As said above, get an inspection and buy in condition more than history tbh, if you get it a bit cheaper because of a non perfect history even better…just means you get to drive about in the exact same car you got cheaper than someone else that needed a book stamped to T.
It’s a bit like adverts for E46 M3’s which are 20 years old and have done 125k miles, that state categorically :As said above, get an inspection and buy in condition more than history tbh, if you get it a bit cheaper because of a non perfect history even better…just means you get to drive about in the exact same car you got cheaper than someone else that needed a book stamped to T.
“All important 1200 mile service carried out on time”
I’d be more concerned about the 10 previous owners who’ve ragged it senseless from cold, than that first service being carried out a month and 250 miles late…
Full history only means that Porsche got their wack consistently every two year, how it was treated between those visits is anyone’s guess!
A good independent inspection on anything old and specialist no matter what the history says would be my way of buying and condition would be the most important considering the recommissioning costs on bodywork of an old Porsche nowadays.
Bet those Porsche race car drivers are raging the first time they clock no leather on the dash.
Edited by Youforreal. on Wednesday 17th July 11:29
But the OP is not wrong to be asking this question still... however, IMHO the problem now comes more from dealers than private buyers..........
When a private individual looks to buy, a 'selling' dealer will be saying
'oh no Sir, history doesn't matter on these older 911s as much as current condition, which is why we've priced it so high........'
When/if anyone tries to sell, a 'buying' dealer will be saying
'oh no Sir, history is critical on these older 911s just as much as current condition, which is why we've offered so low........'
When a private individual looks to buy, a 'selling' dealer will be saying
'oh no Sir, history doesn't matter on these older 911s as much as current condition, which is why we've priced it so high........'
When/if anyone tries to sell, a 'buying' dealer will be saying
'oh no Sir, history is critical on these older 911s just as much as current condition, which is why we've offered so low........'
I bought a mint low mileage 993 C4 varioram from a well respected dealer and it needed a new gasket within 500 miles to stop an oil leak.
As others have said:
1) Buy on Condition
2) Get a PPI done
3) Have some spare cash for sorting out problems
It's a 30 year old Porsche which will need standard and preventative maintenance to keep them perfect.
As others have said:
1) Buy on Condition
2) Get a PPI done
3) Have some spare cash for sorting out problems
It's a 30 year old Porsche which will need standard and preventative maintenance to keep them perfect.
have had aircooled 993s/964s for 10 years now.
typically used to get the service done every year, as per the schedule. but it seems like overkill for a car that will only do 2 to 3k miles a year. So instead am planning to move to get the oil changed every 5,000 miles.
Car is on 113,000 miles & runs like a dream, just like all the previous ones I've had. You do get the odd semi-unexpected big bill, but in my experience that's usually something like needing a new/refurbished steering rack or new exhaust components if a wear-and-tear hole appears & fails MOT emissions.
Brilliant cars, hoping to never sell mine!
typically used to get the service done every year, as per the schedule. but it seems like overkill for a car that will only do 2 to 3k miles a year. So instead am planning to move to get the oil changed every 5,000 miles.
Car is on 113,000 miles & runs like a dream, just like all the previous ones I've had. You do get the odd semi-unexpected big bill, but in my experience that's usually something like needing a new/refurbished steering rack or new exhaust components if a wear-and-tear hole appears & fails MOT emissions.
Brilliant cars, hoping to never sell mine!
Gio G said:
Boths cars are at Ashgood and a dealer I trust and have dealt with in the past. Like to get some perspectives please?
I have a different perspective - not on the trust thing but on showroom condition and prep. A bit chalk and cheese in comparison with someone like 911v in my experienceMany thanks all for the feedback. I think the cars in question are priced accordingly given some of some service gaps. A potential PPI is a given, I know some specialists get a bit sniffy about it, however if you stand by something you are selling, you shouldn't have any reservations.
G
G
Unfortunately, a stamped service book can mean any of the following:
i) The service was performed properly and the book was stamped.
ii) The service wasn't performed or was undertaken indifferently and the book was stamped.
iii) No record of the service exists and the book was stamped after the fact.
I do much of the servicing on my own cars myself and always keep the receipts for the service items and parts purchased as part of the cars' histories. That way at least a future owner can see that there was a purchase of oil, filters, plugs, gaskets and so on that corresponds with the service records.
Most service parts (filters and so on) are date-marked. The frequency with which I've pulled service parts out of cars with date-marks that are 3-6 years older than the last service at which they should have been changed clearly demonstrates that a service stamp means practically nothing, even from a franchised dealer.
Far better, in my experience, to make a general assessment of the vehicle for the level of care it's been subject to, in combination with any definitive servicing data (invoices for parts and so on) and make your judgement based on that evidence.
i) The service was performed properly and the book was stamped.
ii) The service wasn't performed or was undertaken indifferently and the book was stamped.
iii) No record of the service exists and the book was stamped after the fact.
I do much of the servicing on my own cars myself and always keep the receipts for the service items and parts purchased as part of the cars' histories. That way at least a future owner can see that there was a purchase of oil, filters, plugs, gaskets and so on that corresponds with the service records.
Most service parts (filters and so on) are date-marked. The frequency with which I've pulled service parts out of cars with date-marks that are 3-6 years older than the last service at which they should have been changed clearly demonstrates that a service stamp means practically nothing, even from a franchised dealer.
Far better, in my experience, to make a general assessment of the vehicle for the level of care it's been subject to, in combination with any definitive servicing data (invoices for parts and so on) and make your judgement based on that evidence.
hunter 66 said:
Youforreal. said:
You’ve just stopped 50% of the type of people you don’t want at you home coming to it should you ever decide to sell it 
[/quot
Haha yes she has lasted 24 hours a few times though , non matching numbers due to a fiery blowup at night
And I bet that when it’s singing on full chat you could not care less, old school owner [/quot
Haha yes she has lasted 24 hours a few times though , non matching numbers due to a fiery blowup at night
Like OC I've owned mine since 2008, when looking at cars that at the time were only 12-14 years old it was incredible how many had missed services, especially the low mile ones........
IMO as these cars are largely oil cooled (can of worms) oil changes are very important, mine gets done every year irrespective of miles, circa 1k pa.
As has been said buying on condition is so important, I must've looked at hundreds over the years at shows etc and as is well documented they do have some known issues.
As long as you have the funds to keep them appropriately you won't regret it, that myself and OC have had ours so long is testament to that.
Cheers
IMO as these cars are largely oil cooled (can of worms) oil changes are very important, mine gets done every year irrespective of miles, circa 1k pa.
As has been said buying on condition is so important, I must've looked at hundreds over the years at shows etc and as is well documented they do have some known issues.
As long as you have the funds to keep them appropriately you won't regret it, that myself and OC have had ours so long is testament to that.
Cheers
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