Conundrum

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Russwhitehouse

Original Poster:

962 posts

138 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
quotequote all
There is a blue,1972 rally prepped 911 for sale on carclassic.com located in Cannes. I went to see it yesterday, and although it looked nice and drove well, there are no receipts for the work done or documented history of any kind for the car, the reason given being that it was all paid for in cash under the table as the vendor is a mate of the Porsche specialist concerned. Needless to say I walked away, but I can't get rid of that niggling feeling that I may be passing up a good car. Did I do the right thing or am I missing out?

IMI A

9,665 posts

208 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
quotequote all
If its a good car I'd buy it. History and provenance is very nice to have but if its priced accordingly i.e. a fair bit lower than a good car with history then if you decide to sell it you can sell for less than its pier group on exit too.

boxsey

3,575 posts

217 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
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Depends on what you want to do with it? If it's just for you to enjoy and you will keep it for a few years, you'll be able to build up a recent history which will help you move it on in the future and not be out of pocket. If you buy it purely as an investment, I guess this probably isn't the right car.

truck71

2,328 posts

179 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
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Can you not contact the restorer and ask pertinent questions? No guarantee the answers will be truthful if they're mates but worth persuing for not much effort?

Russwhitehouse

Original Poster:

962 posts

138 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
quotequote all
I'm looking to rally the car, not to keep it in a garage as an investment. The other thing that worries me is that i'ts not the first time he's tried to sell it. A bit of time on the internet revealed it for sale back in 2010, yet the current owner has had it since 2005. He obviously can't shift it for a reason, which I suspect is the lack of provenance.

Russwhitehouse

Original Poster:

962 posts

138 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
quotequote all
truck71 said:
Can you not contact the restorer and ask pertinent questions? No guarantee the answers will be truthful if they're mates but worth persuing for not much effort?
That is what I was doing yesterday when I went to see the car. Lots of assurances that the car was good but then they would say that I guess.

ArrowSC

591 posts

234 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
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Russwhitehouse said:
I'm looking to rally the car, not to keep it in a garage as an investment. He obviously can't shift it for a reason, which I suspect is the lack of provenance.
If you're planning to rally it, is it in a competitive spec and to relevant regs? I suspect this might be a bigger issue than history, especially if it might need rebuilding to conform. Depending how hard you rally it, the history could become rather academic after a future (documented) rebuild.
Race/rally cars also have a pretty small market, and Cannes isn't somewhere I associate with the bobble-hat brigade, so maybe you've struck lucky being local?
Is there a local specialist (other than the owners buddy) who could inspect it?

Russwhitehouse

Original Poster:

962 posts

138 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
quotequote all
The car conforms to all the necessary regs for classic and historic rallying over here and has it's official "passport historique". The current owner has rallied it lightly since converting it to classic group three spec in about 2005/6 and apparently not at all for a couple of years whilst it has languished in his garage.

Russwhitehouse

Original Poster:

962 posts

138 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
quotequote all
By the way, I'm not local but an eight hour drive away, which made it all the more infuriating to turn up only to find no bills of any sort to corroborate work done. Cannes is a bit of a hotbed for rally cars as it is the home of garage Caruso et fils. Google them and you'll see what I mean. They are the people who have done the mechanicals on the car apparently.

ArrowSC

591 posts

234 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
quotequote all
Russwhitehouse said:
. Cannes is a bit of a hotbed for rally cars as it is the home of garage Caruso et fils. They are the people who have done the mechanicals on the car apparently.
Every day's a school day! Yes def heard of Caruso, they've built some mega-looking cars. With their reputation, why not speak to them as others advised, as it seems unlikely they'd risk damaging their rep.
At the least they should be able to document the spec and if it was built up as a bitsa as most competition cars are, that may explain the lack of any meaningful history pre-build

Russwhitehouse

Original Poster:

962 posts

138 months

Thursday 12th December 2013
quotequote all
I was there talking to Olivier Caruso yesterday. They sure look good in what they do, but 55 grand is a lot of money if they are having me over. Motor trade and all that despite reputation.

Russwhitehouse

Original Poster:

962 posts

138 months

Friday 13th December 2013
quotequote all
They are only selling the car on behalf of the owner so they are not directly responsible as such. If it was their car they were selling I would have no hesitation.

benjj

6,787 posts

170 months

Friday 13th December 2013
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I would walk, Russ.

At 20-30k it may be worth a punt, but at 55 bags it's a bit too much of a risk.

For the same cash you could have this Tuthill: http://www.rally24.com/rally-cars-for-sale/porsche...

Russwhitehouse

Original Poster:

962 posts

138 months

Friday 13th December 2013
quotequote all
Yep, agreed Ben. That was the decision on the day really. Just wanted to get a few other opinions to reinforce it. The search continues.

benjj

6,787 posts

170 months

Friday 13th December 2013
quotequote all
Cheshire Classic Cars have a minty blue Tuthill in at the moment for 65k. They've had it quite a while, perhaps 6 months or so, could be a deal to have there.

It is right up your strasse.

Russwhitehouse

Original Poster:

962 posts

138 months

Friday 13th December 2013
quotequote all
Yes, already pinged it, but a bit too steep for what I want to spend. It would have to be a very good deal indeed! Nice car though and just the sort of thing that is indeed up my proverbial strasse.