Resto/Mod Backdating costs...

[C4ME]

RSTurboPaul said:

G Thang said:

The backdate would require 4 new wings / quarters as well as the bonnet, rear lid, lights. When you take off all these parts, you might find a load of rust that you may or may not deal with depending on who's paying and how far they want to go.
A restoration might not get any new parts, just some patches.
In that case, the restomod would be more expensive.

However, I know a restorer who is doing two restorations at the moment, each to the spec and budget of the owner.
The restomod is not getting as deep a body repair as the car that is being restored to original. But it is getting a few of the newer parts.
The asking price will probably be much higher for the restomod if sold. Possibly that's one of the ratiionales for backdating a car.

There many variables and different standards of restoration.

I would find it hard not to do a 'proper job' if everything was stripped back - which I guess is where a lot of the cost goes, regardless of whether the end result is a refresh or a restomod.

That is what prompted my original questions. The advert says “Bought from Rennsport in the Cotswolds (Feb 2023) after full restoration” hence the majority of the cost is the restoration and not the changes.

Edited by C4ME on Saturday 29th June 19:33

[G Thang]

C4ME said:

RSTurboPaul said:

G Thang said:

The backdate would require 4 new wings / quarters as well as the bonnet, rear lid, lights. When you take off all these parts, you might find a load of rust that you may or may not deal with depending on who's paying and how far they want to go.
A restoration might not get any new parts, just some patches.
In that case, the restomod would be more expensive.

However, I know a restorer who is doing two restorations at the moment, each to the spec and budget of the owner.
The restomod is not getting as deep a body repair as the car that is being restored to original. But it is getting a few of the newer parts.
The asking price will probably be much higher for the restomod if sold. Possibly that's one of the ratiionales for backdating a car.

There many variables and different standards of restoration.

I would find it hard not to do a 'proper job' if everything was stripped back - which I guess is where a lot of the cost goes, regardless of whether the end result is a refresh or a restomod.

That is what prompted my original questions. The advert says “Bought from Rennsport in the Cotswolds (Feb 2023) after full restoration” hence the majority of the cost is the restoration and not the changes.

Edited by C4ME on Saturday 29th June 19:33

Generally, yes. ...maybe.
It depends how much restoration the original car needs. 964s for example don't rust a huge amount. And then there are expensive engine and suspension setups.

[GTRene]

yeah yeah backdating, I guess this person had another idea, he forwarddating his Porsche a once 3,0 Carrera 1976 I believe, they made a 964 of it with a Motor 3.2 Cup ATM...(what is that?) but must say, it looks like a nice job also Turbo brakes and so on and not that expensive I think. just 69k euro, so 59k gbp









more>

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...

[harryblue]

KittyLitter said:

1973 911-S backdate

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406291...

I don't know much about these things but isn't that relatively cheap for a Rennsport build?

I do wonder what you'd get back on the open market for some of these cars, drive off their forecourt having paid £200k+ and you get half that back when you sell?

[MDL111]

GTRene said:

yeah yeah backdating, I guess this person had another idea, he forwarddating his Porsche a once 3,0 Carrera 1976 I believe, they made a 964 of it with a Motor 3.2 Cup ATM...(what is that?) but must say, it looks like a nice job also Turbo brakes and so on and not that expensive I think. just 69k euro, so 59k gbp









more>

https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id...

that was the thing to do it the past - 70s and 80s Porsche made to look like a 964 or (I think) even 993. also some 996 to 997 conversions.
How times have changed

[thegreenhell]

MDL111 said:

that was the thing to do it the past - 70s and 80s Porsche made to look like a 964 or (I think) even 993. also some 996 to 997 conversions.
How times have changed

Times will change again at some point, and I expect a lot of the current backdates will be converted into something else. Not the high end stuff like Singers, but the ones like the silver Rennsport one above which looks to be just some panels on an otherwise standard car, they will be easy targets to make into whatever the next fad is.

[MDL111]

thegreenhell said:

MDL111 said:

that was the thing to do it the past - 70s and 80s Porsche made to look like a 964 or (I think) even 993. also some 996 to 997 conversions.
How times have changed

Times will change again at some point, and I expect a lot of the current backdates will be converted into something else. Not the high end stuff like Singers, but the ones like the silver Rennsport one above which looks to be just some panels on an otherwise standard car, they will be easy targets to make into whatever the next fad is.

I guess that is the cool thing about older Porsches, everything is interchangeable so people can make it their own. I remember a few Ferrari 348 to 355 conversions (plus obviously use of a cheaper car and turn it into a 250 GT / GTO copy etc), but it seems much more rife with Porsches.

[Cheib]

harryblue said:

I don't know much about these things but isn't that relatively cheap for a Rennsport build?

I do wonder what you'd get back on the open market for some of these cars, drive off their forecourt having paid £200k+ and you get half that back when you sell?

I honestly don’t think there is a better way to lose money on a car than buy a car like this. The real madness with that is that it is more expensive than the original car…you could buy an extremely good original one for less than that cost last year.

[G Thang]

MDL111 said:

I guess that is the cool thing about older Porsches, everything is interchangeable so people can make it their own.

Are they making it their own, or following a trend, or going for the maximum profit?

[KittyLitter]

harryblue said:

KittyLitter said:

1973 911-S backdate

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406291...

I don't know much about these things but isn't that relatively cheap for a Rennsport build?

I do wonder what you'd get back on the open market for some of these cars, drive off their forecourt having paid £200k+ and you get half that back when you sell?

I suspect that is a common outcome.

Its about half price to what they sell them new for.

https://www.911rennsport.co.uk/shop

..upto £250K
https://www.911rennsport.co.uk/product-page/rennsp...




Then again, the silver one doesn't looks comparable to this one in terms of mods.

https://www.911rennsport.co.uk/product-page/rennsp...



so maybe it was around £100K originally? but without knowing then at face value it could be a 40/50% depreciation outcome.

[GTRene]

love the looks of that green car (outside ST look and color)

[Wozy68]

G Thang said:

C4ME said:

RSTurboPaul said:

G Thang said:

The backdate would require 4 new wings / quarters as well as the bonnet, rear lid, lights. When you take off all these parts, you might find a load of rust that you may or may not deal with depending on who's paying and how far they want to go.
A restoration might not get any new parts, just some patches.
In that case, the restomod would be more expensive.

However, I know a restorer who is doing two restorations at the moment, each to the spec and budget of the owner.
The restomod is not getting as deep a body repair as the car that is being restored to original. But it is getting a few of the newer parts.
The asking price will probably be much higher for the restomod if sold. Possibly that's one of the ratiionales for backdating a car.

There many variables and different standards of restoration.

I would find it hard not to do a 'proper job' if everything was stripped back - which I guess is where a lot of the cost goes, regardless of whether the end result is a refresh or a restomod.

That is what prompted my original questions. The advert says “Bought from Rennsport in the Cotswolds (Feb 2023) after full restoration” hence the majority of the cost is the restoration and not the changes.

Edited by C4ME on Saturday 29th June 19:33

Generally, yes. ...maybe.
It depends how much restoration the original car needs. 964s for example don't rust a huge amount. And then there are expensive engine and suspension setups.

At least 12 years ago maybe longer … Adrian Crawford told me that with the 964 you need to take the front wheels off and push against the baukhead and see if you can push your hand through into the footwell. … The 964 just rusts in a different place to the previous models.

[ChrisW.]

harryblue said:

KittyLitter said:

1973 911-S backdate

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202406291...

I don't know much about these things but isn't that relatively cheap for a Rennsport build?

I do wonder what you'd get back on the open market for some of these cars, drive off their forecourt having paid £200k+ and you get half that back when you sell?

The other thing is that it probably isn't a true backdate. For example, the square mirrors are from the first of the impact bumper cars from '74 ... the '73 mirrors were round and I think only on the drivers side ...

[G Thang]

Wozy68 said:

At least 12 years ago maybe longer … Adrian Crawford told me that with the 964 you need to take the front wheels off and push against the baukhead and see if you can push your hand through into the footwell. … The 964 just rusts in a different place to the previous models.

Oh crumbs...

I've even seen 997's getting rust repairs, but generally speaking, as time went on, the rustproofing did improve. The wheel arch liners made a big difference.

[Cheib]

ChrisW. said:

The other thing is that it probably isn't a true backdate. For example, the square mirrors are from the first of the impact bumper cars from '74 ... the '73 mirrors were round and I think only on the drivers side ...

That is correct. However, if a 73 was LHD it had a square mirror !

I’ll get my coat

[ChrisW.]

My car is a Belgian car and it has a round mirror ??

Either way ... I'm still learning !!

[harryblue]

KittyLitter said:

I suspect that is a common outcome.

Its about half price to what they sell them new for.

https://www.911rennsport.co.uk/shop

..upto £250K
https://www.911rennsport.co.uk/product-page/rennsp...

There is a video of the green one and it's very nice, maybe a bit too track focussed but still very nice.
I can't fault anything they do, their cars are the sort of stuff that I'd build if I had the time and skill, but it's obviously really expensive, they probably don't have massive margins in them when you consider the labour involved and so they have to sell them at a fairly high price, with an obvious potential that you may not recover that spend if you then try and sell it on at some point in the future.

I don't often see them in private sales, so I don't know what the residuals are like, but my thoughts are that if I was having such a thing built then I'd take my time thinking about it, spec it well and intend to take it to the grave.

[Cheib]

ChrisW. said:

My car is a Belgian car and it has a round mirror ??

Either way ... I'm still learning !!

Interesting I guess could have been changed in period or maybe there’s some quirk with Belgian cars!

[GTRene]

seen this backdate? on a 964 bases, newly build up tuned 3.8 engine an in some things they went pretty far for backdating, they also made a oil filler like some old early 911 have... don't mistake it for a fuel filler

looks pretty good, ok it does cost 295k euro but not bad, also had several carbon parts and a Singer rear spoiler etc.

Complete conversion of a Porsche 964 C2
• Frame-off restoration by Porsche specialist
• Overhauled 3.8 liter naturally aspirated engine, air-cooled, 310 hp
• New interior with Recaro bucket seats in Pepita
• Front/rear bumper and fenders made of carbon fiber







just 109km after conversion/work.

https://mo-vendi.de/en/cars/1120-porsche-964-c2-um...

[Yellow491]

GTRene said:

seen this backdate? on a 964 bases, newly build up tuned 3.8 engine an in some things they went pretty far for backdating, they also made a oil filler like some old early 911 have... don't mistake it for a fuel filler

looks pretty good, ok it does cost 295k euro but not bad, also had several carbon parts and a Singer rear spoiler etc.

Complete conversion of a Porsche 964 C2
• Frame-off restoration by Porsche specialist
• Overhauled 3.8 liter naturally aspirated engine, air-cooled, 310 hp
• New interior with Recaro bucket seats in Pepita
• Front/rear bumper and fenders made of carbon fiber







just 109km after conversion/work.

https://mo-vendi.de/en/cars/1120-porsche-964-c2-um...

Truly Fugly,those arches are about the worst i have seen and all for 300k,worlds gone nuts.