Time warp 930 Turbo

[harryblue]

Louis Balfour said:

I still don't regret selling my immaculate 1989, G reg, 930 coupe, 5-speed for £23750. I definitely don't at all....(yes I do)

In my mind they're £50k cars, but unfortunately no one is selling them at that price and if you want one then you have to pay the £120-160k that people are asking - or even more for certain ones, I've seen them at £225k.

I should have bought one years ago instead of buying newer Porsches, but I kept thinking that surely the classic car market will soften, so I held off, but in the end I decided that they only seem to be going one way and it was time to just bite the bullet and buy one.
The aim is to keep it forever, use it lightly and my son will get it when I move on to the next life, hopefully in 30-40yrs time when it's worth a lot more.

[Louis Balfour]

harryblue said:

Louis Balfour said:

I still don't regret selling my immaculate 1989, G reg, 930 coupe, 5-speed for £23750. I definitely don't at all....(yes I do)

In my mind they're £50k cars, but unfortunately no one is selling them at that price and if you want one then you have to pay the £120-160k that people are asking - or even more for certain ones, I've seen them at £225k.

I should have bought one years ago instead of buying newer Porsches, but I kept thinking that surely the classic car market will soften, so I held off, but in the end I decided that they only seem to be going one way and it was time to just bite the bullet and buy one.
The aim is to keep it forever, use it lightly and my son will get it when I move on to the next life, hopefully in 30-40yrs time when it's worth a lot more.

Have you driven one?

I sold mine because it wasn't THAT nice to drive. I had a 911SC at the same time and it was a better car. The 930 felt cramped and the power delivery was too punchy. The 911SC was slower but more comfortable and smoother.

I would have kept the 930 if I had had the space, but I didn't. I would have been paying to store a car that I didn't actually like that much, just because it would appreciate. I used the money towards a 997, which I loved.

So, the 930. It was a case of never meeting one's hero. The money notwithstanding I don't regret selling it.

[ChrisW.]

Each to their own .... there are cars and cars. I remember a suspension refresh completely transforming a 964RS that I owned ... at a time when drivers of others were complaining that country roads were shooting them off into the scenery.

The biggest advantage I would say of an appreciation for classic cars is the removal of the need to continually look at the newest best as a prospective upgrade.

These are not a daily driver but a well and regularly maintained classic should not be expensive to run (so long as you have a trusted indie looking after it) ... they come from a simpler time when repairs could be to component level ... and the daily driver can then be as "practical" as you want.

[Louis Balfour]

ChrisW. said:

Each to their own .... there are cars and cars. I remember a suspension refresh completely transforming a 964RS that I owned ... at a time when drivers of others were complaining that country roads were shooting them off into the scenery.

The biggest advantage I would say of an appreciation for classic cars is the removal of the need to continually look at the newest best as a prospective upgrade.

These are not a daily driver but a well and regularly maintained classic should not be expensive to run (so long as you have a trusted indie looking after it) ... they come from a simpler time when repairs could be to component level ... and the daily driver can then be as "practical" as you want.

Mine was looked after by a Porsche specialist and the suspension was well sorted. The 930 just wasn't the nicest air cooled Porsche to drive IMHO and I have driven enough of them to have made an informed opinion.

It cost me £5kpa to keep on the road at the standard I wanted it to be (virtually perfect).

[harryblue]

Louis Balfour said:

Have you driven one?

Yes, that's my red one I posted on the previous page.

I like how it drives, I like that it's less than perfect and that the power delivery is not linear, it's like a two stroke motorcycle, it's of it's time and it's exactly what you expect of an 80's turbo supercar, you just need to accept it for what it is and drive it accordingly.

It's a cliche but it's got character, my 991.2 GT3 is soulless and boring in comparison, it's simply a tool for a job and it has very little character or charm - like any other modern Porsche, in my opinion they lack anything you could describe as character.

There are lots of other examples - I have a 1936 Rudge 500 TT race bike, rubbish on paper compared to anything modern but nothing feels like it or rides like it.

The thing with classics is that you have to really want one and then you drive/ride it for what it is and accept it's foibles, I get why some people might not be able to accept that or might be disappointed by the way it drives, but personally it's exactly what I was looking for, I'd be bored if it was perfect.

[Louis Balfour]

harryblue said:

Louis Balfour said:

Have you driven one?

Yes, that's my red one I posted on the previous page.

I like how it drives, I like that it's less than perfect and that the power delivery is not linear, it's like a two stroke motorcycle, it's of it's time and it's exactly what you expect of an 80's turbo supercar, you just need to accept it for what it is and drive it accordingly.

It's a cliche but it's got character, my 991.2 GT3 is soulless and boring in comparison, it's simply a tool for a job and it has very little character or charm - like any other modern Porsche, in my opinion they lack anything you could describe as character.

There are lots of other examples - I have a 1936 Rudge 500 TT race bike, rubbish on paper compared to anything modern but nothing feels like it or rides like it.

The thing with classics is that you have to really want one and then you drive/ride it for what it is and accept it's foibles, I get why some people might not be able to accept that or might be disappointed by the way it drives, but personally it's exactly what I was looking for, I'd be bored if it was perfect.

Fair points and I agree with you about modern Porsches. I have no interest in them whatsoever.

[harryblue]

Louis Balfour said:

It cost me £5kpa to keep on the road at the standard I wanted it to be (virtually perfect).

That sounds pretty steep too, especially since you're talking about back in the days when they were £20k for an immaculate 1989 930, that must have been twenty years ago? I can remember them being £20-30k back in the early 2000's, if my memory serves me right.

In todays money that's probably £10k a year.
I've got receipts for mine and a full engine out service, new clutch & gearbox rebuild was £12k in 2017, throw in some bodywork and it can stack up, but you wouldn't be doing that every year.

I could throw £10k a year at it without losing too much sleep, but I hope I don't have to.

[Louis Balfour]

harryblue said:

Louis Balfour said:

It cost me £5kpa to keep on the road at the standard I wanted it to be (virtually perfect).

That sounds pretty steep too, especially since you're talking about back in the days when they were £20k for an immaculate 1989 930, that must have been twenty years ago? I can remember them being £20-30k back in the early 2000's, if my memory serves me right.

In todays money that's probably £10k a year.
I've got receipts for mine and a full engine out service, new clutch & gearbox rebuild was £12k in 2017, throw in some bodywork and it can stack up, but you wouldn't be doing that every year.

I could throw £10k a year at it without losing too much sleep, but I hope I don't have to.

I had my air cooled 911s circa 2010.

I paid £15750 for the 930 and £8500 for the 911SC. I sold the former for £23750.00 and the latter for £11k (I think).

I didn't find them cheap to run.

[GTRene]

harryblue said:

Yes, that's my red one I posted on the previous page.

I like how it drives, I like that it's less than perfect and that the power delivery is not linear, it's like a two stroke motorcycle, it's of it's time and it's exactly what you expect of an 80's turbo supercar, you just need to accept it for what it is and drive it accordingly.

It's a cliche but it's got character, my 991.2 GT3 is soulless and boring in comparison, it's simply a tool for a job and it has very little character or charm - like any other modern Porsche, in my opinion they lack anything you could describe as character.

There are lots of other examples - I have a 1936 Rudge 500 TT race bike, rubbish on paper compared to anything modern but nothing feels like it or rides like it.

The thing with classics is that you have to really want one and then you drive/ride it for what it is and accept it's foibles, I get why some people might not be able to accept that or might be disappointed by the way it drives, but personally it's exactly what I was looking for, I'd be bored if it was perfect.

good points, btw you can change say the Turbo for more modern Turbo, say from Ruf incl the cooler, give's also more power and more drivable or something like that :-)

If I get one some day in the future, I would like to make a sort ST version from it, so a sort lighter RS interior, modern Turbo or 2 small Turbo's? on it and good suspension parts, to mix classic with modern a bit, also loose the big rear spoiler and make a special lower cooler so you won't need such big Turbo spoiler.

there are some nice examples out there.

[KittyLitter]

Another, must be something in the air!

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/16452337

[ChrisW.]

Louis Balfour said:

ChrisW. said:

Each to their own .... there are cars and cars. I remember a suspension refresh completely transforming a 964RS that I owned ... at a time when drivers of others were complaining that country roads were shooting them off into the scenery.

The biggest advantage I would say of an appreciation for classic cars is the removal of the need to continually look at the newest best as a prospective upgrade.

These are not a daily driver but a well and regularly maintained classic should not be expensive to run (so long as you have a trusted indie looking after it) ... they come from a simpler time when repairs could be to component level ... and the daily driver can then be as "practical" as you want.

Mine was looked after by a Porsche specialist and the suspension was well sorted. The 930 just wasn't the nicest air cooled Porsche to drive IMHO and I have driven enough of them to have made an informed opinion.

It cost me £5kpa to keep on the road at the standard I wanted it to be (virtually perfect).

Then you did what you could, it was obviously the right decision for you

[harryblue]

GTRene said:

good points, btw you can change say the Turbo for more modern Turbo, say from Ruf incl the cooler, give's also more power and more drivable or something like that :-)

If I get one some day in the future, I would like to make a sort ST version from it, so a sort lighter RS interior, modern Turbo or 2 small Turbo's? on it and good suspension parts, to mix classic with modern a bit, also loose the big rear spoiler and make a special lower cooler so you won't need such big Turbo spoiler.

there are some nice examples out there.

I'm not going to mess with it, I don't mind spending a bit on it but it'll be kept as standard as possible, the only thing I might change is to put more modern suspension on it, but otherwise I'll drive it for what it is, it's got plenty of power and it's a nice drive at any speed, so there is no need to try and make it into something more modern.

I have my eye on an almost finished 964 custom build, I might buy that and finish it, but I'd be reluctant these days to mess about with anything I bought that was in good standard condition.

[belfry]

These seem to be very hot right now.
Not just here but in Europe too. My LHD car is getting lots of interest from the EU, possibly due to the strong Euro making GBP cars less expensive due to exchange rate changes.

[marine boy]

Bought my black 89 5-speed RHD 930 in 2008 when they were the unloved air-cooled 911, paid not a lot

1st Porsche and my 1st drive was with the whole family aboard for a 2 week tour from the UK across Europe back to our home near Maranello covering 8 countries along the way

Great car, not the easiest to drive smoothly or confidently, understand why some people don't like it

No ABS, power steering, traction control, stability control and punchy, delayed turbo lag, heavily biased rear weight distribution doesn't make it the easiest most relaxing drive on a twisty road, especially in the wet

All valid reasons why it's not considered a pure air cooled 911 driving experience but they're the reasons why I'll never consider selling it

930 makes me work hard to drive it smoothly at a reasonable pace, in comparison my stripped out, extensively lightened 964 C2 is easy to drive at the same speeds

Over the years I've considered selling it to buy a 996 GT2 or Audi R8 V10 or Lamborgini Gallardo but think the novelty of all the extra unusable speed would wear off quite quickly

[belfry]

marine boy said:

930 makes me work hard to drive it smoothly at a reasonable pace, in comparison my stripped out, extensively lightened 964 C2 is easy to drive at the same speeds

I couldn't agree more. In an age where my wife's SUV has 300 hp and either 8 or 9 gears (I really don't care), I enjoy the feeling of getting everything just right for an overtake and riding the wall of torque that 930s generate. This is where I find my 'flow state'. I heard on a podcast recently that Stirling Moss said something like "With movement comes tranquillity". When I am really driving my 930 I cannot worry about the daily niggles that can make me anxious.

Thus, cars like these are my medicine.

[harryblue]

marine boy said:

Bought my black 89 5-speed RHD 930 in 2008 when they were the unloved air-cooled 911, paid not a lot

1st Porsche and my 1st drive was with the whole family aboard for a 2 week tour from the UK across Europe back to our home near Maranello covering 8 countries along the way

Great car, not the easiest to drive smoothly or confidently, understand why some people don't like it

No ABS, power steering, traction control, stability control and punchy, delayed turbo lag, heavily biased rear weight distribution doesn't make it the easiest most relaxing drive on a twisty road, especially in the wet

All valid reasons why it's not considered a pure air cooled 911 driving experience but they're the reasons why I'll never consider selling it

930 makes me work hard to drive it smoothly at a reasonable pace, in comparison my stripped out, extensively lightened 964 C2 is easy to drive at the same speeds

Over the years I've considered selling it to buy a 996 GT2 or Audi R8 V10 or Lamborgini Gallardo but think the novelty of all the extra unusable speed would wear off quite quickly

I've had various modern sports/supercars and to be honest they're all so capable that they quickly become dull and I stop using them, even the ones that sound amazing get dull once you're used to the sound, and most of them end up being a one trick pony because it's all about the power, which quickly gets boring after a few launches and high speed runs.
In fact I bought a 992 C2 basic model thinking that it would be good to thrash around and play with it's limits, but even that was too capable and I had to do 150mph everywhere to get a kick out of it, I didn't even keep it a year.

The thing with older, less capable cars is that their flaws translate into character and they're interesting to drive.
In my experience, after people have exhausted their bucket list of new supercars I see a lot of them turn towards classics as a way to get their kicks, but they aren't proper car people and can't drive them properly, so they head towards the resto/mod scene, where the cars give a facade of old school but have modern electronics that keep them from crashing into trees - personally I prefer the real thing and putting the work in to avoid the trees.

[Orangecurry]

harryblue said:

The thing with older, less capable cars is that their flaws translate into character and they're interesting to drive.

(....and they are significantly lighter..... and they reward driver input....)

Isn't this the long-term PHers mantra? Shame it's not very snappy

[Koln-RS]

harryblue said:

In fact I bought a 992 C2 basic model thinking that it would be good to thrash around and play with it's limits, but even that was too capable and I had to do 150mph everywhere to get a kick out of it, I didn't even keep it a year.

Agree about the pleasure and engagement that earlier cars can deliver, but also believe that the semi-automatic gearboxes in most modern cars (however clever they might be) contribute to the problem.

Never understood why the base 992 didn’t offer the excellent 7-spd box (although the T and S did), which can help unlock a more rewarding driver experience at sensible speeds.

Edited by Koln-RS on Wednesday 26th June 14:38

[Louis Balfour]

Koln-RS said:

harryblue said:

In fact I bought a 992 C2 basic model thinking that it would be good to thrash around and play with it's limits, but even that was too capable and I had to do 150mph everywhere to get a kick out of it, I didn't even keep it a year.

Agree about the pleasure and engagement that earlier cars can deliver, but also believe that the semi-automatic gearboxes in most modern cars (however clever they might be) contribute to the problem.

Never understood why the base 992 didn’t offer the excellent 7-spd box (although the T and S did), which can help unlock a more rewarding driver experience at sensible speeds.

Edited by Koln-RS on Wednesday 26th June 14:38

The 7-speed manual wasn't widely regarded, when it first came out on the 991. I don't know whether it was later improved.

[Geneve]

Louis Balfour said:

The 7-speed manual wasn't widely regarded, when it first came out on the 991. I don't know whether it was later improved.

Yes.
Not widely received when first introduced on the 991.1, but much improved by 991.2, and I would say even better on 992.1.
Plenty of YT videos extolling the virtues.
Still not clear if there will be a Manual 992.2, but I’m pretty sure there will.
For some people, it’s what makes a ‘911’.