Panamera Turbo Sport Turismo - any not so good things?
Discussion
So I’m considering a move into one of these from my Alpina wagon. How are they as a daily? I hardly read a bad word about them, but for those of you that own one are you still very happy or are there things which are frustrating? I hear rear wheel steer is a must due to length. How is ride comfort? My Alpina is very soft but I had a brief stint in a modern e63 wagon which was unbearably harsh and just a bit aggressive as a daily.
Any owner insights would be appreciated! Thanks
Any owner insights would be appreciated! Thanks
I have an ST Turbo, bought new in 2018.
I have had it on desert dirt tracks, at Spa and the Nürburgring, used it to ferry my Greet Dane across the US and been through snowstorms and tornadoes. I now have 65,000km on it.
It did have some rogue electrical problems when new that took a while to identify, but other that that has only had routine maintenance. It needed a front brake job a while ago,hardly surprising given the hard use it has had. It is very quick and stable at speed including autobahn speeds. Overall it has been a great vehicle and I will probably drive it into the ground. I did not specify AWS but I did the full torque-vectoring and a heavily upgraded interior, premium lights etc and complete chrome reduction and badge removal.
One thing that is likely to be a pain is the option of 21" wheels which I did put on for the summer. They scrape very easily.
I have had it on desert dirt tracks, at Spa and the Nürburgring, used it to ferry my Greet Dane across the US and been through snowstorms and tornadoes. I now have 65,000km on it.
It did have some rogue electrical problems when new that took a while to identify, but other that that has only had routine maintenance. It needed a front brake job a while ago,hardly surprising given the hard use it has had. It is very quick and stable at speed including autobahn speeds. Overall it has been a great vehicle and I will probably drive it into the ground. I did not specify AWS but I did the full torque-vectoring and a heavily upgraded interior, premium lights etc and complete chrome reduction and badge removal.
One thing that is likely to be a pain is the option of 21" wheels which I did put on for the summer. They scrape very easily.
RDMcG said:
Wow, that picture is simply fantastic! Congratulations.Btw, I looked at these when changing from my 5 Touring. My main issue was boot space which was too small given the car's footprint. On track, as a passenger, very quick but also extremely heavy feeling, how can I say... too "blunt" perhaps?
sigibbons said:
P.s. I love the mild off road photos, those double 5 spoke wheels look good with the suspension jacked up. Does it raise quite a bit?
'it is quite irritatingTBH.....works perfectly but reverts to standard height at about 15 MPH.
Edited by RDMcG on Thursday 2nd May 20:25
sigibbons said:
Thank you RDM. That’s a great insight and some fantastic photos!
Are there any things you would suggest looking out for when buying?
There is not a huge amount of vertical space under the hatch- worth being aware if you carry a lot of stuff. Rear legroom is OK but not great for tall people. if you can get the 18 way heated/cooled seats they are a hugely useful option. Torque vectoring is great if you drive hard.Are there any things you would suggest looking out for when buying?
I’ve got a 2019 Turbo (but not the ST) and bought it around 3 years ago. To answer your question about ride, I can’t compare it to a B5 but suspect with Comfort Plus, the Alpina will be a little softer. That said, I couldn’t live with an M5, let alone an E63 but I’m pretty happy with the ride quality on my car, it’s great for long journeys even if tyre roar can be a bit of an issue on harsher surfaces.
The list of essentials, for me at least, would be the following:
Pano roof (I think that might have been standard on the ST).
14 way seats are fine, 18 way are even better.
Rear axel steer.
Sports exhaust, although even with it on, it’s still muted.
4 zone A/C.
Bose as a minimum, Burmester is definitely better though.
Soft close doors and keyless entry.
Adaptive cruise control, I find Innodrive to be a waste of time.
Nice to haves are:
Ventilated seats and ideally massage.
Ceramic brakes, they make a huge difference and there’s no brake dust.
PTV, as another poster has said, it makes a big difference if you’re driving hard.
If you’re buying secondhand, I’d advise checking whether the front sway arms (suspension) and top mounts (also suspension) have been done. They are a known failure item and make the car creak when going over bumps when the bushes are cold. Porsche warranty doesn’t seem to want to fix the issue in the Uk but it looks like they’ve taken a more constructive attitude with owners in the USA.
Brakes and tyres are predictably pricey, with pads and discs around £2,700 to £3k per axel.
The list of essentials, for me at least, would be the following:
Pano roof (I think that might have been standard on the ST).
14 way seats are fine, 18 way are even better.
Rear axel steer.
Sports exhaust, although even with it on, it’s still muted.
4 zone A/C.
Bose as a minimum, Burmester is definitely better though.
Soft close doors and keyless entry.
Adaptive cruise control, I find Innodrive to be a waste of time.
Nice to haves are:
Ventilated seats and ideally massage.
Ceramic brakes, they make a huge difference and there’s no brake dust.
PTV, as another poster has said, it makes a big difference if you’re driving hard.
If you’re buying secondhand, I’d advise checking whether the front sway arms (suspension) and top mounts (also suspension) have been done. They are a known failure item and make the car creak when going over bumps when the bushes are cold. Porsche warranty doesn’t seem to want to fix the issue in the Uk but it looks like they’ve taken a more constructive attitude with owners in the USA.
Brakes and tyres are predictably pricey, with pads and discs around £2,700 to £3k per axel.
Edited by Mosdef on Friday 3rd May 17:05
Mosdef said:
I’ve got a 2019 Turbo (but not the ST) and bought it around 3 years ago. To answer your question about ride, I can’t compare it to a B5 but suspect with Comfort Plus, the Alpina will be a little softer. That said, I couldn’t live with an M5, let alone an E63 but I’m pretty happy with the ride quality on my car, it’s great for long journeys even if tyre roar can be a bit of an issue on harsher surfaces.
The list of essentials, for me at least, would be the following:
Pano roof (I think that might have been standard on the ST).
14 way seats are fine, 18 way are even better.
Rear axel steer.
Sports exhaust, although even with it on, it’s still muted.
4 zone A/C.
Bose as a minimum, Burmester is definitely better though.
Soft close doors and keyless entry.
Adaptive cruise control, I find Innodrive to be a waste of time.
Nice to haves are:
Ventilated seats and ideally massage.
Ceramic brakes, they make a huge difference and there’s no brake dust.
PTV, as another poster has said, it makes a big difference if you’re driving hard.
If you’re buying secondhand, I’d advise checking whether the front seat arms (suspension) and top mounts (also suspension) have been done. They are a known failure item and make the car creak when going over bumps when the bushes are cold. Porsche warranty doesn’t seem to want to fix the issue in the Uk but it looks like they’ve taken a more constructive attitude with owners in the USA.
Brakes and tyres are predictably pricey, with pads and discs around £2,700 to £3k per axel.
Pretty much are with everything you have here. I have the Burmeister on my Cayenne GTS and it is a lot better than the Bose in my Pana, but Bose is good enough. I added thermal and noise insulation which is very effective. Did not bother with ceramics, good for dust but most of the time do not need the extra stopping power. The list of essentials, for me at least, would be the following:
Pano roof (I think that might have been standard on the ST).
14 way seats are fine, 18 way are even better.
Rear axel steer.
Sports exhaust, although even with it on, it’s still muted.
4 zone A/C.
Bose as a minimum, Burmester is definitely better though.
Soft close doors and keyless entry.
Adaptive cruise control, I find Innodrive to be a waste of time.
Nice to haves are:
Ventilated seats and ideally massage.
Ceramic brakes, they make a huge difference and there’s no brake dust.
PTV, as another poster has said, it makes a big difference if you’re driving hard.
If you’re buying secondhand, I’d advise checking whether the front seat arms (suspension) and top mounts (also suspension) have been done. They are a known failure item and make the car creak when going over bumps when the bushes are cold. Porsche warranty doesn’t seem to want to fix the issue in the Uk but it looks like they’ve taken a more constructive attitude with owners in the USA.
Brakes and tyres are predictably pricey, with pads and discs around £2,700 to £3k per axel.
The Turbo is very,very quick...ran in flat out in Germany and even tracked it at Spa. Much better roadholding that it had to have. Not a GT car of course, but as a road car I am very happy with it. You're right about the brakes, already went through a front set. At least not the price of ceramic replacements
.I forgot about the thermal and noise insulated glass, definitely worth having.
Re: brakes, my fronts needed replacement at 40k miles and the rears at around 50k miles although that was mainly due to corrosion when the car wasn’t used for 2-3 months of wet weather.
As a daily, I find it a very easy going car, hence why I’m on my third Panamera in a row. I actually sold mine in September 2022 when the Truss / Kwarteng debacle happened. My Porsche dealer did all the work (front end repay, service etc) and I watched it get reduced by £2k every 2-3 weeks before I bought it back from them 4 months later, for quite a bit less than they paid me for it. I think that used up any goodwill points I had with the dealership!
Re: brakes, my fronts needed replacement at 40k miles and the rears at around 50k miles although that was mainly due to corrosion when the car wasn’t used for 2-3 months of wet weather.
As a daily, I find it a very easy going car, hence why I’m on my third Panamera in a row. I actually sold mine in September 2022 when the Truss / Kwarteng debacle happened. My Porsche dealer did all the work (front end repay, service etc) and I watched it get reduced by £2k every 2-3 weeks before I bought it back from them 4 months later, for quite a bit less than they paid me for it. I think that used up any goodwill points I had with the dealership!
Edited by Mosdef on Friday 3rd May 20:58
I'm late to the party here, but I have a 2023 Turbo S ST and I love it. It's just turned one year old and I've done 16k miles, lots of motorway and commuting into London. As a motorway car I can't imagine anything better, it has so much power all across the rev range and it's very spacious and comfortable. 7th and 8th gears are over drives so the engine is barely ticking over at motorway speeds that aids the relaxing feel, but give the throttle a tickle and it goes like a bullet.
The ride is not the nicest on not great roads. It's ok but you can tell its been tuned as a performance car. I've driven other cars with adaptive dampers that have more variation and go softer, as a luxury car it's the one thing that lets it down in my opinion, but it's miles from awful. The latest gen has fixed this but you need hybrid. It's a very wide and long car that makes itself known in London but again, it's ok, you just need to be careful.
As others have said, the boot isn't brilliant, especially compared to an RS6 or E63, but I like the shooting brake looks and I do tip runs and the like so it works for me. With the back seats down (they are powered 😎) it's cavernous. Fuel economy is decent.
On the options front the Turbo S comes with all the performance things ticked except the Sports Exhaust bizarrely. I had a 2019 Turbo ST previously and retrofitted the sports exhaust and it was rubbish. The 971.2 sports exhaust is much much better, it sounds great. If you're looking at 971.1 I wouldn't bother with it. The carbon ceramics are amazing, my old car had steels and it's such a big heavy car that goes so fast that they didn't inspire confidence. I would definitely be spec'ing them if they weren't standard. My old car didn't have rear wheel steer and the new one does and contrary to lots other views, I can't tell much difference, it wouldn't be a show stopper for me. It does help when manoeuvring but not massively. Surround view is a must, didn't have it on my old one and it made life a lot more difficult. The parking sensors are rediculously sensitive though and complain a lot in traffic that's really quite irritating.
All in all, an amazing car that largely flys under the radar (even my orange one) - but will out perform pretty much anything else on the road. If I were you I'd look at getting an early 971.2 model. The updates were subtle but make a difference. The infotainment is much better, the new steering wheel is lovely, the ride comfort is noticeably better, PSE is light years ahead. You can't really go wrong though with any ST, except if you go new or nearly new where you will lose your shirt to depreciation. I went in eyes open and like a previous poster will likely run mine into the ground. I can't see anything better ever coming out anyway. The new one certainly isn't an improvement and I'm a bit phobic when it comes to batteries.
The ride is not the nicest on not great roads. It's ok but you can tell its been tuned as a performance car. I've driven other cars with adaptive dampers that have more variation and go softer, as a luxury car it's the one thing that lets it down in my opinion, but it's miles from awful. The latest gen has fixed this but you need hybrid. It's a very wide and long car that makes itself known in London but again, it's ok, you just need to be careful.
As others have said, the boot isn't brilliant, especially compared to an RS6 or E63, but I like the shooting brake looks and I do tip runs and the like so it works for me. With the back seats down (they are powered 😎) it's cavernous. Fuel economy is decent.
On the options front the Turbo S comes with all the performance things ticked except the Sports Exhaust bizarrely. I had a 2019 Turbo ST previously and retrofitted the sports exhaust and it was rubbish. The 971.2 sports exhaust is much much better, it sounds great. If you're looking at 971.1 I wouldn't bother with it. The carbon ceramics are amazing, my old car had steels and it's such a big heavy car that goes so fast that they didn't inspire confidence. I would definitely be spec'ing them if they weren't standard. My old car didn't have rear wheel steer and the new one does and contrary to lots other views, I can't tell much difference, it wouldn't be a show stopper for me. It does help when manoeuvring but not massively. Surround view is a must, didn't have it on my old one and it made life a lot more difficult. The parking sensors are rediculously sensitive though and complain a lot in traffic that's really quite irritating.
All in all, an amazing car that largely flys under the radar (even my orange one) - but will out perform pretty much anything else on the road. If I were you I'd look at getting an early 971.2 model. The updates were subtle but make a difference. The infotainment is much better, the new steering wheel is lovely, the ride comfort is noticeably better, PSE is light years ahead. You can't really go wrong though with any ST, except if you go new or nearly new where you will lose your shirt to depreciation. I went in eyes open and like a previous poster will likely run mine into the ground. I can't see anything better ever coming out anyway. The new one certainly isn't an improvement and I'm a bit phobic when it comes to batteries.
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