Porsche Panamera 971 Turbo damaged by Air Filter?

[RobBell737]

Has anyone had any issues with the Air filter getting sucked into the Turbo and causing damage?

The car is under warranty but Porsche wont honour it as they are saying the filter was wet.

[IMI A]

Bad luck. Why is it wet? Worth making a FOS complaint if its an extended warranty hence a financial product.

[RobBell737]

I don’t know they are saying I must have driven through a puddle but I haven’t and it was dry on the day it happened.

The filter is damp only at one end.

[IMI A]

Speak to dealer principle. If that doesn't help call Porsche GB Customer Service and escalate. If that doesn't work put in Financial Ombudsman Complaint in if is perhaps on an extended warranty. If you get the wrong person in service dept or wrong OPC they can be a complete nightmare. All the people I dealt with connected to this OPC thankfully fired. Very prejudiced and dodgy environment previously. They're improving (slowly). I only use OPC Reading nowadays.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Porschekiduk]

I had a Cayenne customer that had running problems, the bottom half of the filter was so wet,some of it also got drawn into turbo, but luckily no damage.

[IREvans]

RobBell737 said:

Has anyone had any issues with the Air filter getting sucked into the Turbo and causing damage?

The car is under warranty but Porsche wont honour it as they are saying the filter was wet.

I love working on Porsches, but replacing the air filter on a 971 Turbo is the most ridiculously complicated job ever, involves removing the headlights and front bumper to expose the airbox in order to access the air filter element.

Anyway, the engine air intakes are exposed quite low in the front bumper, and if the air filter is wet, then some water has forced its way up through the intakes into the air filter. It’s conceivable for the air filter to then fragment and then get drawn into the turbocharger.

Whether paper fragments could damage the vanes of the turbocharger is questionable, but it’s possible that other foreign objects like stones or road grit could have entered the turbo along with the damaged filter.

Sorry for the long winded reply, but in summary I’d want the dealer to show me the wording in the warranty which excludes cover for the turbocharger due to water ingress into the air box.

Out of interest, have they shown you evidence of damage to the vanes of the turbocharger…? Why did you take the car in, what symptoms did you have..?

[RobBell737]

Thanks for the information.

It happened on a dry day accelerating up a hill with no water on the road and the car went into limp mode with the Engine Control Fault displayed on the screen.

I managed to get the car home and called Porsche assistance who sent the AA the next day. The car could not be fixed so was recovered to the dealership the next day when it was raining.

Initially I was told it was the Electronic Control Unit that needed replacing then a week later I was asked if I had driven through any water and told this was the problem.

I went to see the car and does look like this but I havent been through any water and like you said questionable whether just paper could do this damage.

So far this is what the dealer are saying regarding warranty:

1. We have not found evidence of a warrantable defect on your car.
2. Our inspection lacks evidence of water ingress around the air filter housing, leading us conclude that significant water has been ingested through the intake.
3. We have used an endoscope today to check the intercooler and have found clear evidence the air filter has been sucked into the intercooler, as a result of excessive water entering the system.

Unfortunately, this is not covered under the Porsche warranty.

[RobBell737]

[IREvans]

RobBell737 said:

Thanks for the information.

It happened on a dry day accelerating up a hill with no water on the road and the car went into limp mode with the Engine Control Fault displayed on the screen.

I managed to get the car home and called Porsche assistance who sent the AA the next day. The car could not be fixed so was recovered to the dealership the next day when it was raining.

Initially I was told it was the Electronic Control Unit that needed replacing then a week later I was asked if I had driven through any water and told this was the problem.

I went to see the car and does look like this but I havent been through any water and like you said questionable whether just paper could do this damage.

So far this is what the dealer are saying regarding warranty:

1. We have not found evidence of a warrantable defect on your car.
2. Our inspection lacks evidence of water ingress around the air filter housing, leading us conclude that significant water has been ingested through the intake.
3. We have used an endoscope today to check the intercooler and have found clear evidence the air filter has been sucked into the intercooler, as a result of excessive water entering the system.

Unfortunately, this is not covered under the Porsche warranty.

Depending on the orientation of the air filter, one side of the air intake has ingested some water, and it could have been months ago. For water to get up the air inlet tract as far as the air filter, it would have been forced up there by hydraulic effect from a deep puddle or ford etc. (You wouldn’t be able to get water up there with a jet wash)

A wet air filter will act like a seal, and not allow as much air through it, forcing the turbocharger to suck even harder against the air filter, eventually the wet air filter will deteriorate and break free, then get sucked into the cold side of the turbocharger. (A competition air filter like K&N or BMC will have a metal mesh gauze surrounding it to prevent a wet air filter from degrading, and breaking free into the turbo)

I’m still surprised the paper element damaged the cold side of the turbo, unless of course there’s damage there which I can’t see in your image..?

Porsche will only want to supply you with a new turbo, but there are many companies out there (Owen developments etc) who will rebuild that one for you. If the damage is limited to the cold side impeller, then it can be repaired or replaced…

[RobBell737]

This is the only other picture I have of the car.

It seems like a design flaw if the filter does not have some kind of mesh to stop this issue as you said other brands do.

I still dont know what work is required to fix the vehicle and currently exploring insurance while I try to get them to honour the warranty.

Thanks for you help.

[Koln-RS]

Interesting and unusual scenario.

One would assume that, if this has been caused by a manufacturing or design defect, then it should be covered under Warranty.

However, if Porsche can say conclusively that it was a consequence of a significant water contamination event, then that should be covered under your normal vehicle insurance.

Of course, the air filter should be inspected and changed at regular service intervals, so your service history should help identify when this was last carried out.

[IREvans]

RobBell737 said:

This is the only other picture I have of the car.

It seems like a design flaw if the filter does not have some kind of mesh to stop this issue as you said other brands do.

I still dont know what work is required to fix the vehicle and currently exploring insurance while I try to get them to honour the warranty.

Thanks for you help.

I can’t quite work out from your image if the vanes on the cold side of the turbocharger are damaged. That impeller will spin at at least 100,000rpm at full boost, so when a lump of air filter hits it, it’ll almost certainly damage the delicate vanes.

As for what’ll fix it, I haven’t seen it, but I can’t imagine it’s anything worse than a new or repaired turbocharger.

Out of interest, have they given you a quote or estimate to repair it..? I’m assuming the turbo vanes are damaged, otherwise they could have put the intake system back together and tested the car.

Regarding air filters - every road car will use a paper air filter element, it tends only to be motorsport applications that use a mesh coated air filter.

[Pope]

Any chance your car was driven through somewhere like Rufford Ford?

How long have you had it?? The filter deterioration wasn't caused the day it failed - likely weeks or months prior.....

Edited by Pope on Thursday 13th April 07:38

[The Wookie]

Not a great design, easy to foresee water contamination in a heavy rain downpour or following another car when there's a lot of spray

[IMI A]

With the amount of standing water we've had over last 3-4 months literally all the Panamera 971 may have this issue unless they live in Dubai. Poor form from Porsche IMO. Its clearly a design fault. Whats an owner expected to do when there is a small river in front of him? Its happened to me a few times. The radiator steam after from GT2 nose vent is like a bull breathing air. Quite cool unless your car has an air filter there too!

[RobBell737]

I've had the car for 20 months and the filter was brand new in July 21. The manufacture guidance is 10,000 miles or 2 years and it hasnt done the miles or the time.

The Driver’s manual also does not state anywhere not to drive when it is wet.

I have spoken to another owner with the same problem and his filter failed in the same place.

[ras62]

Have a look at the filter and the date stamp on it. Was it actually changed in 21? Quite possible the filter hasn't been changed and is original

[paralla]

ras62 said:

Have a look at the filter and the date stamp on it. Was it actually changed in 21? Quite possible the filter hasn't been changed and is original

This was my first thought. If a service item is difficult or time consuming (which this air filter seems to be, since it involves removing the front bumper) it can sometimes be overlooked.

If the date on the filter is older than the last time it was supposed to have been replaced, that's evidence that whoever carried out the service didn't replace it according to the manufacturers spec. If that turns out to be the case I'd imagine you have strong reason to ask the service people to pay for whatever corrective work is required now.

Check the service records of the car.

[Schuey_911]

paralla said:

ras62 said:

Have a look at the filter and the date stamp on it. Was it actually changed in 21? Quite possible the filter hasn't been changed and is original

This was my first thought. If a service item is difficult or time consuming (which this air filter seems to be, since it involves removing the front bumper) it can sometimes be overlooked.

If the date on the filter is older than the last time it was supposed to have been replaced, that's evidence that whoever carried out the service didn't replace it according to the manufacturers spec. If that turns out to be the case I'd imagine you have strong reason to ask the service people to pay for whatever corrective work is required now.

Check the service records of the car.

It's a good thought and hopefully as simple as that. However, these parts are mass produced and therefore might be sitting around on their parts shelf for a while. If it's a couple of months older than when it was supposed to be changed, then I guess it won't prove anything. If it's a year or so older, then I suppose there's an argument to be had?

[RobBell737]

Finally got a repair bill.

The dealer is still saying not covered by warranty but Porsche customer care are now involved and are looking at making a payment towards the repair although they are also looking into it being covered by warranty!!!