Panamera Diesel
Discussion
It may be the start of Porsche pullng out of diesels completely, time will tell. Stuttgart (Porsche & Mercedes) is now the most air polluted city in Germany due to diesel emissions. Next year all diesel vehicles will be banned in Stuttgart, other cities will follow. Tesla has just opened a swanky city centre showroom and are taking lots of orders. Times they are a changin!
Yes but they're going to be releasing the new Cayenne with a diesel so that doesn't make sense.
As I understand it, Porsche are developing a new exhaust to help combat further the emissions from both petrol and diesel engines.
This could be due to a gap in production until the new exhaust if ready for the diesel.
In terms of the banning of diesels, surely they wont be banning Euro 6 compliant diesels i.e. new diesels with ad-blue?
As I understand it, Porsche are developing a new exhaust to help combat further the emissions from both petrol and diesel engines.
This could be due to a gap in production until the new exhaust if ready for the diesel.
In terms of the banning of diesels, surely they wont be banning Euro 6 compliant diesels i.e. new diesels with ad-blue?
Just having a mooch at the Porsche AUC site...I think Porsche are having trouble shifting the Diesel. There are 31 cars listed which consists of 24 4S Diesels...the rest are Turbo's and Petrol 4S's. Not a single Hybrid. I remember the last time I spoke to my OPC about the Panamera he said there were long waits for the Petrol 4S and Hybrid and this was before the Diesel stuff really kicked off in the press. Loved the 4S Diesel I drove but the pricing vs the hybrid makes the Hybrid the one to have if you're worried about your pocket.
Cheib said:
Just having a mooch at the Porsche AUC site...I think Porsche are having trouble shifting the Diesel. There are 31 cars listed which consists of 24 4S Diesels...the rest are Turbo's and Petrol 4S's. Not a single Hybrid. I remember the last time I spoke to my OPC about the Panamera he said there were long waits for the Petrol 4S and Hybrid and this was before the Diesel stuff really kicked off in the press. Loved the 4S Diesel I drove but the pricing vs the hybrid makes the Hybrid the one to have if you're worried about your pocket.
As you know i picked up my new Panamera 4e hybrid a month ago and can guarantee its the only one which makes any fiscal sense to buy especially if you can capitalise on the business use tax benefits which can be huge. Last night i took it for its first thrashing along my favourite mountain route and if you ignore its parsimonious thirst and drive it like a porsche it beggars belief.
After playing with the settings with no family members to interfere or scold me i arrived at my preferred mode which is suspension in 'sport plus' and drive in 'sport mode' and it covers ground at an astonishing rate. Sport mode disables coasting and electric only mode and the electric motor just augments the turbo engine and totally eradicates lag.
The three stage air suspension feels at least two generations above the previous model with none of the wallowing i noticed previously, just iron clad confidence inspiring body control. The one option i consider a 'must have' is RAS which makes the 5m long 2t+ car feel like a much lighter and smaller sports saloon.
All in all very enjoyable especially gratifying considering i bought it with my head and not my heart and has a true split 'Jekyll and Hyde' character which i was not expecting.
Taffy66 said:
Cheib said:
Just having a mooch at the Porsche AUC site...I think Porsche are having trouble shifting the Diesel. There are 31 cars listed which consists of 24 4S Diesels...the rest are Turbo's and Petrol 4S's. Not a single Hybrid. I remember the last time I spoke to my OPC about the Panamera he said there were long waits for the Petrol 4S and Hybrid and this was before the Diesel stuff really kicked off in the press. Loved the 4S Diesel I drove but the pricing vs the hybrid makes the Hybrid the one to have if you're worried about your pocket.
As you know i picked up my new Panamera 4e hybrid a month ago and can guarantee its the only one which makes any fiscal sense to buy especially if you can capitalise on the business use tax benefits which can be huge. Last night i took it for its first thrashing along my favourite mountain route and if you ignore its parsimonious thirst and drive it like a porsche it beggars belief.
After playing with the settings with no family members to interfere or scold me i arrived at my preferred mode which is suspension in 'sport plus' and drive in 'sport mode' and it covers ground at an astonishing rate. Sport mode disables coasting and electric only mode and the electric motor just augments the turbo engine and totally eradicates lag.
The three stage air suspension feels at least two generations above the previous model with none of the wallowing i noticed previously, just iron clad confidence inspiring body control. The one option i consider a 'must have' is RAS which makes the 5m long 2t+ car feel like a much lighter and smaller sports saloon.
All in all very enjoyable especially gratifying considering i bought it with my head and not my heart and has a true split 'Jekyll and Hyde' character which i was not expecting.
I'd love a Panemera Gran Turismo as our next family car to replace our Cayenne some time in the future but Mrs Cheib loves the Cayenne.....can't think of a better car to drive to the Alps in which we do a couple of times a year.
Cheib said:
The 4S Diesel I drove had RWS and it certainly felt very agile for what is undoubtedly a bloody big car!
I'd love a Panemera Gran Turismo as our next family car to replace our Cayenne some time in the future but Mrs Cheib loves the Cayenne.....can't think of a better car to drive to the Alps in which we do a couple of times a year.
I had a similar dilemma when i picked up my Panamera as i originally intended to p/x my Cayenne for it but my wife loves the Cayenne and said she would not feel confident driving the huge Panamera. As a result we ended up keeping the Cayenne to run alongside the new one as they serve different purposes as the Cayenne has the electric tow hitch and 3500kg limit which is sometimes useful to us.I'd love a Panemera Gran Turismo as our next family car to replace our Cayenne some time in the future but Mrs Cheib loves the Cayenne.....can't think of a better car to drive to the Alps in which we do a couple of times a year.
Another Cayenne benefit is the middle rear seat sometimes useful when taking along our of my two kids's school friends.
Taffy66 said:
Cheib said:
The 4S Diesel I drove had RWS and it certainly felt very agile for what is undoubtedly a bloody big car!
I'd love a Panemera Gran Turismo as our next family car to replace our Cayenne some time in the future but Mrs Cheib loves the Cayenne.....can't think of a better car to drive to the Alps in which we do a couple of times a year.
I had a similar dilemma when i picked up my Panamera as i originally intended to p/x my Cayenne for it but my wife loves the Cayenne and said she would not feel confident driving the huge Panamera. As a result we ended up keeping the Cayenne to run alongside the new one as they serve different purposes as the Cayenne has the electric tow hitch and 3500kg limit which is sometimes useful to us.I'd love a Panemera Gran Turismo as our next family car to replace our Cayenne some time in the future but Mrs Cheib loves the Cayenne.....can't think of a better car to drive to the Alps in which we do a couple of times a year.
Another Cayenne benefit is the middle rear seat sometimes useful when taking along our of my two kids's school friends.
I am going to test drive a Panamera e-Hybrid and 4-V8 Diesel next week to replace my 2007 997 Turbo S. I know, I know but my arthritic back has had enough of trying to fiddle kiddy seats for my grandchildren into the back of a 911. I suspect I will like the diesel a lot better than the E-Hybrid with its very heavy Li-on battery in the boot. However as I keep my cars for long time, I don't think the diesel makes sense. Politicians, looking to suck up to greenies, will want to appear to have super clean credentials and will increasingly tax and ban all diesels, including Euro 6 compliant ones. After say 5 or 6 years, a diesel Panamera would have little value and there would be a number of cities in Europe, e.g. Stuttgart, I could not enter at all. The V8 petrol turbo is outside my budget sadly. The E-Hybrid makes better economic sense, as during the winter, a lot of my mileage is short runs, which I could do all on battery. With the electricity deal I have (7.7p/kWH), I reckon it would cost £1-60 for a full charge at night time tariff. If that takes you 30 miles (unlikely), that is the equivalent cost of a car doing over 100mpg.
WilsonLaidlaw said:
I am going to test drive a Panamera e-Hybrid and 4-V8 Diesel next week to replace my 2007 997 Turbo S. I know, I know but my arthritic back has had enough of trying to fiddle kiddy seats for my grandchildren into the back of a 911. I suspect I will like the diesel a lot better than the E-Hybrid with its very heavy Li-on battery in the boot. However as I keep my cars for long time, I don't think the diesel makes sense. Politicians, looking to suck up to greenies, will want to appear to have super clean credentials and will increasingly tax and ban all diesels, including Euro 6 compliant ones. After say 5 or 6 years, a diesel Panamera would have little value and there would be a number of cities in Europe, e.g. Stuttgart, I could not enter at all. The V8 petrol turbo is outside my budget sadly. The E-Hybrid makes better economic sense, as during the winter, a lot of my mileage is short runs, which I could do all on battery. With the electricity deal I have (7.7p/kWH), I reckon it would cost £1-60 for a full charge at night time tariff. If that takes you 30 miles (unlikely), that is the equivalent cost of a car doing over 100mpg.
I dont think you can actually buy a new diesel panamera now which says something. Whether they'll start selling them again when they release the new Cayenne diesel (if they release it) who knows. I think there has been a bit of scaremongering surrounding diesel but unless they can significantly clean it up, the future does look like its leaning more towards petrol hybrid.I have a 4.2 diesel Cayenne which is an absolutely amazing machine but I will be replacing it with a hybrid next year. On the other hand I read somewhere that a barrel of oil had to produce both fuels so if people are using less diesel, it will possibly come down in price, so a cheap fuel for as long as its needed. Not sure how true this is. If so, diesel will be cheap to buy but you car will be too...
Fokker said:
I dont think you can actually buy a new diesel panamera now which says something. Whether they'll start selling them again when they release the new Cayenne diesel (if they release it) who knows. I think there has been a bit of scaremongering surrounding diesel but unless they can significantly clean it up, the future does look like its leaning more towards petrol hybrid.
I have a 4.2 diesel Cayenne which is an absolutely amazing machine but I will be replacing it with a hybrid next year. On the other hand I read somewhere that a barrel of oil had to produce both fuels so if people are using less diesel, it will possibly come down in price, so a cheap fuel for as long as its needed. Not sure how true this is. If so, diesel will be cheap to buy but you car will be too...
There are loads of very low mileage diesel demonstrator V8 diesels at good prices and the dealers are running up the "we are negotiable" flag as well. Again as you say, indicative of a less than bright future for the the wonderful V8 diesel in the Panamera. The amount of diesel that cars use compared with trucks, buses, boats, generators and 35 sec heating oil is not a lot, so if diesel cars in Europe drop from the current around 50% to 25-35%, I would doubt if that would change total diesel consumption by even 5%. That is not going to move the price very much. Sadly what you and others say is inclining me more towards the E-Hybrid. I will just have to start driving more slowly. I have a 4.2 diesel Cayenne which is an absolutely amazing machine but I will be replacing it with a hybrid next year. On the other hand I read somewhere that a barrel of oil had to produce both fuels so if people are using less diesel, it will possibly come down in price, so a cheap fuel for as long as its needed. Not sure how true this is. If so, diesel will be cheap to buy but you car will be too...
WilsonLaidlaw said:
Fokker said:
I dont think you can actually buy a new diesel panamera now which says something. Whether they'll start selling them again when they release the new Cayenne diesel (if they release it) who knows. I think there has been a bit of scaremongering surrounding diesel but unless they can significantly clean it up, the future does look like its leaning more towards petrol hybrid.
I have a 4.2 diesel Cayenne which is an absolutely amazing machine but I will be replacing it with a hybrid next year. On the other hand I read somewhere that a barrel of oil had to produce both fuels so if people are using less diesel, it will possibly come down in price, so a cheap fuel for as long as its needed. Not sure how true this is. If so, diesel will be cheap to buy but you car will be too...
There are loads of very low mileage diesel demonstrator V8 diesels at good prices and the dealers are running up the "we are negotiable" flag as well. Again as you say, indicative of a less than bright future for the the wonderful V8 diesel in the Panamera. The amount of diesel that cars use compared with trucks, buses, boats, generators and 35 sec heating oil is not a lot, so if diesel cars in Europe drop from the current around 50% to 25-35%, I would doubt if that would change total diesel consumption by even 5%. That is not going to move the price very much. Sadly what you and others say is inclining me more towards the E-Hybrid. I will just have to start driving more slowly. I have a 4.2 diesel Cayenne which is an absolutely amazing machine but I will be replacing it with a hybrid next year. On the other hand I read somewhere that a barrel of oil had to produce both fuels so if people are using less diesel, it will possibly come down in price, so a cheap fuel for as long as its needed. Not sure how true this is. If so, diesel will be cheap to buy but you car will be too...
Cheib said:
I read a review of the Panny Diesel which mentioned that it's by no means certain that there will be a new Cayenne Diesel and likely to only be the V8 is there is one.
Audi have the new 4.0 V8 diesel in the Q7 so it would make you wonder why Porsche wouldn't use it as its there ready and waiting. Its not as if they have to design a completely new unit. Then again, is this Porsche's chance, as sports car maker to ditch the diesel stigma?Fokker said:
Audi have the new 4.0 V8 diesel in the Q7 so it would make you wonder why Porsche wouldn't use it as its there ready and waiting. Its not as if they have to design a completely new unit. Then again, is this Porsche's chance, as sports car maker to ditch the diesel stigma?
I am sure that has something to do with it, as Porsche have now been more implicated in dieselgate than they were at first. They can say to the German authorities: "look guv, we are being good boys and phasing out diesel all together". Bad news for folks who tow heavy trailers/caravans with Cayennes, as a petrol is nowhere near as good for towing. One interesting bit of information, I just received from Porsche GB is that to date, they have never had to replace a single Li-on high voltage battery from failure (presumably they have for accident or water damage). In addition the battery is guaranteed for 6 years or 120,000 miles. It is repairable unlike many car makers' batteries. However should you have to replace it, the current cost is an eye-watering £8,163.90 inclusive of VAT. Given that I have only done 58,000 miles in the last 10 years in my 997, that eliminates one worry. However I believe that when I have it down at my house in the south of France, it is best to avoid using the battery as much as you can in very hot weather (it reached 39.7º there this year and my tiled floor exploded from expansion in two places). Li-on batteries degrade far quicker when used in very hot weather. Hopefully I should have my Morgan three wheeler back by next spring. It has been in the garage since early May this year to have a failed chassis replaced under warranty. I can use the Morgan for all the short journeys.
Sounds good although the warranty on the battery will be 6 years or 120,000 miles so after 6 years is out of warranty even if you've done less than 120k.
I'm not sure if a Porsche extended warranty will cover the battery beyond that point, that's one thing to find out.
What I don't like about the Hybrid is that you have to use it like an electric car to a degree and actually charge the thing. If you let the engine charge the battery, it uses such a large amount of fuel its rediculous therefore you have to plan ahead more, especially if driving long distance such as south of France.
When you look at the cost is a 991 Turbo and Turbo S, £99k for a Cayenne Turbo doesn't seem so bad. I spec'd one the other day and it only needed £6 or 7k of options as they come very well spec'd form the outset. Its bloody tempting and you don't have to mess about with plugging the thing into the mains all the time.
I'm not sure if a Porsche extended warranty will cover the battery beyond that point, that's one thing to find out.
What I don't like about the Hybrid is that you have to use it like an electric car to a degree and actually charge the thing. If you let the engine charge the battery, it uses such a large amount of fuel its rediculous therefore you have to plan ahead more, especially if driving long distance such as south of France.
When you look at the cost is a 991 Turbo and Turbo S, £99k for a Cayenne Turbo doesn't seem so bad. I spec'd one the other day and it only needed £6 or 7k of options as they come very well spec'd form the outset. Its bloody tempting and you don't have to mess about with plugging the thing into the mains all the time.
Fokker said:
When you look at the cost is a 991 Turbo and Turbo S, £99k for a Cayenne Turbo doesn't seem so bad. I spec'd one the other day and it only needed £6 or 7k of options as they come very well spec'd form the outset. Its bloody tempting and you don't have to mess about with plugging the thing into the mains all the time.
The problem with both the Cayenne and Macan is I hate driving 4 X 4s. I had quite enough of it over the years I towed my Ralt-Judd F2 racing car round Europe for the European Hill Climb Championship. More recently, even sitting as a passenger in my classic rally co-driver's Range Rover, when we are towing my 1977 911 RSR to the beginning of a rally, I am uncomfortable and nervous, which I am not in lower cars, even when my co-driver is demonstrating just how sideways you can get a 911. Even the prospect of a new E-Hybrid Panamera is not totally filling me with joy. My cursor finger keeps straying to the list of ex-demo 991-2 Carrera GTS cars 
Fokker said:
Cheib said:
I read a review of the Panny Diesel which mentioned that it's by no means certain that there will be a new Cayenne Diesel and likely to only be the V8 is there is one.
Audi have the new 4.0 V8 diesel in the Q7 so it would make you wonder why Porsche wouldn't use it as its there ready and waiting. Its not as if they have to design a completely new unit. Then again, is this Porsche's chance, as sports car maker to ditch the diesel stigma?A Porsche dealer confirmed to me today that the V8 Diesel Panamera S has been dropped. Must be one of the shortest ever production lives of any Porsche. The dealers are really going to have to sharpen their pencils to sell their remaining stock of these. I wonder if the leasing rates indicate a poor potential residual in three years? Would be a good buy on a leasing deal (price dependant) but not one for me to buy cash to keep 7 or 8 years.
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