928 GT - worth?
Discussion
XJR500bhp said:
Hi Guys
What is a 928 GT worth these days? 100k on the clock and all the essential work has been undertaken.
Also does anyone know what Porsche turbo cup wheels are worth?
Cheers
If it's a GT then it's a manual gearbox.What is a 928 GT worth these days? 100k on the clock and all the essential work has been undertaken.
Also does anyone know what Porsche turbo cup wheels are worth?
Cheers
OP a few questions
Are you buying or selling the 928 GT?
Do you have a picture, sizes and part numbers of the "Porsche turbo cup wheels"?
A friend of mine acquired a 928 SE manual a couple of years ago and I was lucky enough to be passenger in it last November for the annual 928.org.uk meet at the Merry Miller pub in Oxfordshire and I have to say it had a totally different character to my 928 S4 auto. I'm pretty sure it had a dog-leg change from 1st to 2nd gear which catches out most new owners, but it was a lovely drive down from Nottingham and the manual gear-changes certainly made for a very interesting drive.
I'm pretty sure that the GT was manual gearbox only, with the GTS being released to cater for both manual and auto buyers.
Certainly the SE, GT and GTS were manufactured in far fewer numbers than the auto S4 models, though not so sure as to whether the premium demanded for a manual is worth more down to the scarcity numbers of manual cars than actual improvements in the driving experience.
I do know one guy who owned several Porsche 911 and 928s (manual and auto) over the years, and whom drove 50,000+ miles per year, so it might be worthwhile contacting him for his comments as to which he thought was the better car to drive.
In terms of values, I have a 1990 S4 auto in very good condition with less than 100,000 on the clock, together with massive service history, and the insurance company recently agreed the value at £18,000, so prices are definitely rising. I would say that any SE, GT or GTS in similar condition and miles should be valued far higher than this.
I'm pretty sure that the GT was manual gearbox only, with the GTS being released to cater for both manual and auto buyers.
Certainly the SE, GT and GTS were manufactured in far fewer numbers than the auto S4 models, though not so sure as to whether the premium demanded for a manual is worth more down to the scarcity numbers of manual cars than actual improvements in the driving experience.
I do know one guy who owned several Porsche 911 and 928s (manual and auto) over the years, and whom drove 50,000+ miles per year, so it might be worthwhile contacting him for his comments as to which he thought was the better car to drive.
In terms of values, I have a 1990 S4 auto in very good condition with less than 100,000 on the clock, together with massive service history, and the insurance company recently agreed the value at £18,000, so prices are definitely rising. I would say that any SE, GT or GTS in similar condition and miles should be valued far higher than this.
rich888 said:
A friend of mine acquired a 928 SE manual a couple of years ago and I was lucky enough to be passenger in it last November for the annual 928.org.uk meet at the Merry Miller pub in Oxfordshire and I have to say it had a totally different character to my 928 S4 auto. I'm pretty sure it had a dog-leg change from 1st to 2nd gear which catches out most new owners, but it was a lovely drive down from Nottingham and the manual gear-changes certainly made for a very interesting drive.
I'm pretty sure that the GT was manual gearbox only, with the GTS being released to cater for both manual and auto buyers.
Certainly the SE, GT and GTS were manufactured in far fewer numbers than the auto S4 models, though not so sure as to whether the premium demanded for a manual is worth more down to the scarcity numbers of manual cars than actual improvements in the driving experience.
I do know one guy who owned several Porsche 911 and 928s (manual and auto) over the years, and whom drove 50,000+ miles per year, so it might be worthwhile contacting him for his comments as to which he thought was the better car to drive.
In terms of values, I have a 1990 S4 auto in very good condition with less than 100,000 on the clock, together with massive service history, and the insurance company recently agreed the value at £18,000, so prices are definitely rising. I would say that any SE, GT or GTS in similar condition and miles should be valued far higher than this.
I remember when you could barely give these away. Must be a bit of a handful to keep in good order? Wasn't aware of an SE model either thought it was 928, S, S2, S4, GT, GTS? I'm pretty sure that the GT was manual gearbox only, with the GTS being released to cater for both manual and auto buyers.
Certainly the SE, GT and GTS were manufactured in far fewer numbers than the auto S4 models, though not so sure as to whether the premium demanded for a manual is worth more down to the scarcity numbers of manual cars than actual improvements in the driving experience.
I do know one guy who owned several Porsche 911 and 928s (manual and auto) over the years, and whom drove 50,000+ miles per year, so it might be worthwhile contacting him for his comments as to which he thought was the better car to drive.
In terms of values, I have a 1990 S4 auto in very good condition with less than 100,000 on the clock, together with massive service history, and the insurance company recently agreed the value at £18,000, so prices are definitely rising. I would say that any SE, GT or GTS in similar condition and miles should be valued far higher than this.
jakesmith said:
I remember when you could barely give these away. Must be a bit of a handful to keep in good order? Wasn't aware of an SE model either thought it was 928, S, S2, S4, GT, GTS?
Easier than a comparable age 911 - 928 don't usually rust as much as the beetles... The Europeans also got the 928 Club Sport - rarer than hens teeth, and now beginning to command serious money. jakesmith said:
I remember when you could barely give these away. Must be a bit of a handful to keep in good order? Wasn't aware of an SE model either thought it was 928, S, S2, S4, GT, GTS?
Yes those were the days when you could buy a Lamborghini Countach LP400 for £35,000 that's now valued at nearly £1000,000, and yup, I missed out on buying it... along with a LP400S a few years earlier which was priced at a similar amount!!!Be honest, as with buying any car on the market, you get what you pay for. Buying cheap may cost you dear long-term. Remember, the purchase price is only the initial down-payment. They are advertised cheap on auction sites for a reason!
So far this year my 928 S4 has cost me two new front Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tyres which were anticipated costs, a yearly MOT, and an annual service including the flex-plate check and change of the automatic transmission oil so she changes silky smooth now, no other maintenance has been required.
For clarification, the 'SE Sport' was a limited edition GT model only available in RHD in the UK market, and known as the 'Club Sport' for the rest of Europe.
EDIT: Fix typo error!
Edited by rich888 on Sunday 19th July 06:46
rich888 said:
Certainly the SE, GT and GTS were manufactured in far fewer numbers than the auto S4 models, though not so sure as to whether the premium demanded for a manual is worth more down to the scarcity numbers of manual cars than actual improvements in the driving experience.
It's both factors combined.As a daily supercar I cannot fault my S4. It does everything supremely.
However, my GT is a more urgent experience and requires more focused attention, even with the 959 shared PSD, and as such makes for a more visceral weekend weapon.
Bo_apex said:
rich888 said:
Certainly the SE, GT and GTS were manufactured in far fewer numbers than the auto S4 models, though not so sure as to whether the premium demanded for a manual is worth more down to the scarcity numbers of manual cars than actual improvements in the driving experience.
It's both factors combined.As a daily supercar I cannot fault my S4. It does everything supremely.
However, my GT is a more urgent experience and requires more focused attention, even with the 959 shared PSD, and as such makes for a more visceral weekend weapon.
If you get the chance later in the year why not take so time out to attend the annual 928 meet at the Merry Miller pub in Oxfordshire. Last year the pub car park was totally full of 928s which was quite astonishing.
Pics shown below to any 928 owners or enthusiasts which took place at the Merry Miller pub in November 2014...
benjj said:
If it's a manual please PM me details, I'm in the market for one and would rather buy from an enthusiast at £X than a dealer at £X+£10k for a £200 wash and polish 
I am in my 5th year of ownership with my GT. I reckon I have spentabout 10 to 15k on it with all bills to prove. When I bought it
in 2010 it was an excellent car mechanically that needed set up again with belts
and major service items, and I set about spending really whatever it needed
attending to with no regard at that stage to its long term value, I purely
wanted to make the car as close to how it would have looked and performed as it came
out the factory and for it to drive perfect whenever it took my fancy.
It did not have the value 5 years ago it has now which has already been pointed
out in a roundabout sort of way, that is not the point, we deal with now and
the situations we all create for ourselves. In 2010 an 83 SC Coupe was worth about
8k and an 88 coupe only a few k more, these basic air cooled cars have not tripled
but almost quadrupled in price.
As for the manual auto debate, no contest. The Auto is agricultural and has to be
given the message to jump down a gear, I did own an S4 with a gearbox tweak of some
sort that made the shift map quicker which was better but a manual it was not.
Recently someone I know who knows a bit about engines remarked that the 928 engine
was never designed as a performance engine, well the statement stuck with me and it
got me thinking, he is right, it is a massively powerful engine with huge reserves
of power, not to be confused with a 911 unit which is an outright performance
motor. Which is why in my opinion it must have a manual gearbox to be a pure
drivers Porsche, it allows that massive power to be unleashed.
I now have a well sorted car and I am seeking 30K for it and wont take less.
Modern Classics said:
Recently someone I know who knows a bit about engines remarked that the 928 engine
was never designed as a performance engine, well the statement stuck with me and it
got me thinking, he is right, it is a massively powerful engine with huge reserves
of power, not to be confused with a 911 unit which is an outright performance
motor. Which is why in my opinion it must have a manual gearbox to be a pure
drivers Porsche, it allows that massive power to be unleashed.
I now have a well sorted car and I am seeking 30K for it and wont take less.
Cheburator mk2 said:
Modern Classics said:
Recently someone I know who knows a bit about engines remarked that the 928 engine
was never designed as a performance engine, well the statement stuck with me and it
got me thinking, he is right, it is a massively powerful engine with huge reserves
of power, not to be confused with a 911 unit which is an outright performance
motor. Which is why in my opinion it must have a manual gearbox to be a pure
drivers Porsche, it allows that massive power to be unleashed.
I now have a well sorted car and I am seeking 30K for it and wont take less.
Is it true that you can fit the cams from an S2 into an S4 to transform the power characteristics from a very laid back cruiser to a bit of a stonker?
A friend of mine who owns an early S4 commented that there is an adjustment screw located in the passenger well to adjust the richness of the fuel, drawback being increased fuel consumption, but that's not the purpose of the exercise is it? Unfortunately my S4 was a newer model with a different board and no adjustment screw!!!
In terms of horsepower, the 928 engine is not particularly highly tuned, so tweaks to the management system and other subtle changes can result in far higher power outputs being achieved, as you mentioned, 500BHP is possible. And there are a few 928s knocking around with six litre engines and some even have superchargers fitted aka the bright orange 928, which has to be one of the more obvious modded cars...
Getting back to what a 928GT is worth, well they were all manuals from what I can gather, though were fitted with a 4957cc engine which was the same size as the S4, just tweaked a little to increase the horsepower by 10 BHP and cost £55,000 in 1988, which was £5,000 more than a comparable S4 of the same year. So are values anywhere near the original prices?
The GTS was available from 1992 to 1995 and was fitted out with a far more powerful 5399cc engine putting out 350BHP in both auto and manual transmission options, unfortunately it cost a staggering £65,000 in 1992 which was rather steep compared to offerings from Mercedes and BMW.
With the 40th anniversary of the 928 in 2017, values of the 928 are almost certainly going to continue to rise, especially if the rumour of a 928 replacement is true. I can't imagine Porsche missing out on such a marketing opportunity to release a new and enhanced 928 for 2017. Though it will have to be very good to beat the original masterpiece.
rich888 said:
With the 40th anniversary of the 928 in 2017, values of the 928 are almost certainly going to continue to rise, especially if the rumour of a 928 replacement is true. I can't imagine Porsche missing out on such a marketing opportunity to release a new and enhanced 928 for 2017. Though it will have to be very good to beat the original masterpiece.
Probably be coupe based on the panamera platform, I'm sure it will have fantastic performance but will be a bloated heavyweight- like the 928 was always labelled, and yet today it seems quite svelte compared to most modern cars.I've just accepted an offer on my S2, for a fair bit more than I paid, so prices are definitely on the up, will be sad to see it go, but its another car ticked of the list of cars I've always wanted to own, just need to decide what to replace it with!
rich888 said:
Brilliant post...
Is it true that you can fit the cams from an S2 into an S4 to transform the power characteristics from a very laid back cruiser to a bit of a stonker?
A friend of mine who owns an early S4 commented that there is an adjustment screw located in the passenger well to adjust the richness of the fuel, drawback being increased fuel consumption, but that's not the purpose of the exercise is it? Unfortunately my S4 was a newer model with a different board and no adjustment screw!!!
In terms of horsepower, the 928 engine is not particularly highly tuned, so tweaks to the management system and other subtle changes can result in far higher power outputs being achieved, as you mentioned, 500BHP is possible. And there are a few 928s knocking around with six litre engines and some even have superchargers fitted aka the bright orange 928, which has to be one of the more obvious modded cars...
Getting back to what a 928GT is worth, well they were all manuals from what I can gather, though were fitted with a 4957cc engine which was the same size as the S4, just tweaked a little to increase the horsepower by 10 BHP and cost £55,000 in 1988, which was £5,000 more than a comparable S4 of the same year. So are values anywhere near the original prices?
The GTS was available from 1992 to 1995 and was fitted out with a far more powerful 5399cc engine putting out 350BHP in both auto and manual transmission options, unfortunately it cost a staggering £65,000 in 1992 which was rather steep compared to offerings from Mercedes and BMW.
e.
You cannot fit S2 cams into 32v engine like the S4, because the S2 used 16v heads. You can fit GT cams into GTS heads, which with a bit of Sharktuning (remap) would allow you to achieve around 370bhp from the 5.4ltr GTS engine. The GT, unlike the S4, had higher compression pistons at a true 10:1, the aforementioned sharper cams, individually port-matched intake manifold and different fuel and ignition maps. The GT also had a lighter, some add that it was also better flowing, exhaust system than the S4. Is it true that you can fit the cams from an S2 into an S4 to transform the power characteristics from a very laid back cruiser to a bit of a stonker?
A friend of mine who owns an early S4 commented that there is an adjustment screw located in the passenger well to adjust the richness of the fuel, drawback being increased fuel consumption, but that's not the purpose of the exercise is it? Unfortunately my S4 was a newer model with a different board and no adjustment screw!!!
In terms of horsepower, the 928 engine is not particularly highly tuned, so tweaks to the management system and other subtle changes can result in far higher power outputs being achieved, as you mentioned, 500BHP is possible. And there are a few 928s knocking around with six litre engines and some even have superchargers fitted aka the bright orange 928, which has to be one of the more obvious modded cars...
Getting back to what a 928GT is worth, well they were all manuals from what I can gather, though were fitted with a 4957cc engine which was the same size as the S4, just tweaked a little to increase the horsepower by 10 BHP and cost £55,000 in 1988, which was £5,000 more than a comparable S4 of the same year. So are values anywhere near the original prices?
The GTS was available from 1992 to 1995 and was fitted out with a far more powerful 5399cc engine putting out 350BHP in both auto and manual transmission options, unfortunately it cost a staggering £65,000 in 1992 which was rather steep compared to offerings from Mercedes and BMW.
e.
The changes are not so subtle if you want to achieve more than 400bhp - look at the car in my garage. What I was driving at is that the basic ingredients of a performance engine are there already.
As for comparing the 928 to the competition from BMW and Mercedes from the same era - it absolutely destroyed them in pretty much every aspect, except interior noise. Look up tests against the M635CSi, the 850CSi and the SL500. The 928 walks away the clear winner despite being 10yrs older as a design. Perhaps the premium, in retrospect, was justified?
Cheburator mk2 said:
Someone who knows about engines, maybe does not know that much about engines... A 3.2SC is at 64bhp/ltr, while a 4.7S is at 66bhp/ltr - very basic comp. A S4 engine is a lot more modern and performance orientated engine than a 964 lump with 4v per cylinder heads, individual cylinder knock control, resonance plenum etc. Don't be fooled by the 320bhp and stump pulling 440Nm of the 32v S4 - the cams are ludicrous in terms the way they strangle the engine. The heads themselves are a work of art - they flow so much as they left the factory it is not real. The ECU(s) are far more advanced than most Motronics fitted up to the 996. The GTS uses pretty good forged rods and pistons. Porsche elected to strangle the 928, not that it was not designed as a performance engine. Any standard engine which can take 6 seasons of being mercilessly beaten on track - BIG GT2 on here - and secure podium finishes in a very competitive field is not just ordinary. Perhaps your friend cares to explain how I got to 500bhp out of 5.4ltrs - the basics engine still has 928 part numbers in a lot of key places...
So exactly, just what you said yourself, its not an outright performance engine like saya 911 Turbo, its not even close but not meant to be I suppose. For me the GT comes intoplay
above 80 mph, everything harmonizes and it squats and tucks in, and its fast after then too..
Modern Classics said:
So exactly, just what you said yourself, its not an outright performance engine like say
a 911 Turbo, its not even close but not meant to be I suppose. For me the GT comes intoplay
above 80 mph, everything harmonizes and it squats and tucks in, and its fast after then too..
Porsche left plenty on the table with the 928S4, the GT and the GTS. These cars are trivially easy to get more power from, as Cheb said it is all in the cams. a 911 Turbo, its not even close but not meant to be I suppose. For me the GT comes intoplay
above 80 mph, everything harmonizes and it squats and tucks in, and its fast after then too..
Probably the sweet spot in terms of letting the performance cat out of the bag was the original 928S with 300bhp, and mechanical fuel injection. That was a seriously quick car in 1980, certainly quicker in mid-range + than any contemporaneous 911. They learned the lesson after that and "managed" the performance of the '28 against other Porsches.
Still, nothing we can't fix, right?
Joel - 79 pre-S manual with 4.7 engine, GT brakes/suspension and 320bhp/320ft-lb
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