Discussion
Hi all - Just wondering if anyone's got any suggestions - I've had a 944S for years now. I've put about 30k miles on it - it's now at 175,000. I've taken it off the road to give it a good restoration which I'm hoping to start in a couple of months. It's never idled properly and is just randomly up and down by a hundred rpm or so - I had taken to a Porsche specialist some years ago who changed the air flow metre and engine temp sensor but it made no difference. Anyway, the main problem is it feels very sluggish. It's always been this way since I've owned it. It's supposed to have 190bhp but feels like it's got about 130 ish maybe. I've had a guy in a 2001 Vauxhall Corsa leave me standing, and my friend who'd asked for a go in it made fun of it for months, saying his Corrado would have left it for dead. I've had the head reconditioned, it's quiet, doesn't smoke or rattle, and I change all of the normal service items etc regularly. Will I need to rebuild the engine properly this summer with new rings/bearings etc or is there something else this is likely to be? Are there others on here that have rebuilt their engines? I've not done a compression test yet. I've rebuilt about 5 Smart Car engines recently and can do them in a weekend, so I'm not scared of getting stuck in. I can't see any air leaks either. I've not driven another one of these so can't tell if I'm just expecting too much from it.
Any ideas gratefully received. Thanks,
Any ideas gratefully received. Thanks,
It leaks oil from the crankshaft oil seal but don't think it's burning any - there's no smoke from it. The exhaust is ancient. Could that be a factor if the baffles in the silencers are falling apart/blocking it? I've driven it for 3 years and it's not got any slower.
I'm thinking I'll do a wet & dry compression test an go from there really. I'm not sure on the availability of parts or anything yet, or how much engine parts costs so will see how it goes!
BTW one of my favourite things to watch on youtube are 'rolling road fails' - It's kinda put me off that sort of thing!
I'm thinking I'll do a wet & dry compression test an go from there really. I'm not sure on the availability of parts or anything yet, or how much engine parts costs so will see how it goes!
BTW one of my favourite things to watch on youtube are 'rolling road fails' - It's kinda put me off that sort of thing!
Well I've got so much history with it, and the body is so straight and rust free, I'm loathed to part with it. I know the reviews of the time were a mixed bag, but it's 30 bhp short of the S2 (on paper). Besides, it's got sentimental value. Think I'll go the whole hog and have a go at rebuilding the engine.
scoote7002 said:
Well I've got so much history with it, and the body is so straight and rust free, I'm loathed to part with it. I know the reviews of the time were a mixed bag, but it's 30 bhp short of the S2 (on paper). Besides, it's got sentimental value. Think I'll go the whole hog and have a go at rebuilding the engine.
I've driven both yours and the S2 and whatever the stats say there is big difference. Maybe transplant it with a second hand S2 engine?! You should take a good condition S for a drive and then take a good condition S2 for a drive if you haven't already.Wozy68 said:
IMIA said:
part ex it for a turbo or S2. Honestly very average that lump in your car even when new.
I have to agree. My old 240hp 968CS never really felt that quick ....... actually it wasn't. A 'new' 190 hp must have been pretty pedestrian.
You need to wring an S's neck to make it move. That was true even when they were new!
Now... they are probably struggling to match an 8v's output, but this can be rectified by having the head rebuilt and ensuring that it is optimised.
edited to add: the cam timing, that is.
Now... they are probably struggling to match an 8v's output, but this can be rectified by having the head rebuilt and ensuring that it is optimised.
edited to add: the cam timing, that is.
Edited by GC8 on Sunday 4th January 22:51
You do have to wring the ar$e off 'em to get them to move, an S2 in comparison feels a lot more grunty than the S than the on paper figures would suggest, due to it's extra midrange mojo.
190 bhp & not much midrange don't make it a v rapid car, still was a good step on from an 8v lux tho- as long as you revved em, & not really slow vs normal cars.
Do a compression check & if seems OK is
Is worth a run on a dyno, ideally one that has seen many 944s & in particular your model. Ignore the power figs as imho dyno figs are all over but use it as a comparison tool.
Only trouble us there won't be many of those anymore, turbos yes, but folks dynoing an S are not 10 a penny, emc might be able to point you where to go to (don't think they have an in house dyno)
I can recommend 2 dynos personally, Charlie at Surrey rolling rd & Jez at H dev in Newbury, I have run 4 of my cars on the H dev dyno, its an honest dyno so no silly over optimistic figs.
190 bhp & not much midrange don't make it a v rapid car, still was a good step on from an 8v lux tho- as long as you revved em, & not really slow vs normal cars.
Do a compression check & if seems OK is
Is worth a run on a dyno, ideally one that has seen many 944s & in particular your model. Ignore the power figs as imho dyno figs are all over but use it as a comparison tool.
Only trouble us there won't be many of those anymore, turbos yes, but folks dynoing an S are not 10 a penny, emc might be able to point you where to go to (don't think they have an in house dyno)
I can recommend 2 dynos personally, Charlie at Surrey rolling rd & Jez at H dev in Newbury, I have run 4 of my cars on the H dev dyno, its an honest dyno so no silly over optimistic figs.
Edited by iguana on Sunday 4th January 23:35
Wozy68 said:
I have to agree. My old 240hp 968CS never really felt that quick ....... actually it wasn't.
A 'new' 190 hp must have been pretty pedestrian.
Not many 968 hit the 240bhp when I worked for a co with a usually bang on dyno back in the day, generally all porkers hit & often exceeded the numbers they should have, other than 968s well actually 993RS also.A 'new' 190 hp must have been pretty pedestrian.
At 175,000 miles a 944 engine bottom-end shouldn't need rebuilding. Assuming that the head rebuild was done well then you have a problem elsewhere, OR it could just be that the very peaky characteristics of the S engine are not to your taste. It always was a top-end engine, which needed to be revved hard to make good progress. Many people didn't like that which is one of the reasons why the S2 was developed.
A rolling road would be a good place to start to find out whether it is ill or not. However if it turns out that everything is as it should be then I'd leave the car as it is and not think about swapping engines. An honest, straight 944 is a thing of beauty and no 944 had a terribly special engine - 4-pots are never as characterful as 6's and cars were slower 25 years ago. However the handling should be as sweet as that of any 944, which is where the car should shine.
Oli.
A rolling road would be a good place to start to find out whether it is ill or not. However if it turns out that everything is as it should be then I'd leave the car as it is and not think about swapping engines. An honest, straight 944 is a thing of beauty and no 944 had a terribly special engine - 4-pots are never as characterful as 6's and cars were slower 25 years ago. However the handling should be as sweet as that of any 944, which is where the car should shine.
Oli.
Assuming the top end is good (as it was rebuilt)
- Check cam timing
- Check or replace all ignition components to be in good health
- Check pump and fuel pressure regulator
- Check compression and leak down.
To do all the above properly I would recommend one of the outfits that is very familiar with the cars and getting bang on performance from them such as EMC Motorsport, NineX or JMG (Jon Mitchell).
At the end of the day having been on race tracks in my S2 against 2.7 S, 8v and 924 race cars the biggest performance gap is between the S2 and the others, I don't think there is any real difference in performance between an S and a healthy 8v, certainly a healthy earlier 8v with its lower weight would match it. IMHO the gap between the 924 and 8v or S 944 is fairly small in practice.
- Check cam timing
- Check or replace all ignition components to be in good health
- Check pump and fuel pressure regulator
- Check compression and leak down.
To do all the above properly I would recommend one of the outfits that is very familiar with the cars and getting bang on performance from them such as EMC Motorsport, NineX or JMG (Jon Mitchell).
At the end of the day having been on race tracks in my S2 against 2.7 S, 8v and 924 race cars the biggest performance gap is between the S2 and the others, I don't think there is any real difference in performance between an S and a healthy 8v, certainly a healthy earlier 8v with its lower weight would match it. IMHO the gap between the 924 and 8v or S 944 is fairly small in practice.
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