Thinking of a 944 Turbo
Discussion
Hi
I'm currently thinking about a 944 Turbo (S2) model and have a few questions.
At the moment I'm driving a Lotus Elise S2 and the obvious compromises are becoming tiresome so I think a change is in need. I previously had a 996 C4 and a 928S. The 996 didn't really inspire me, I found the interior to be awful and the drive to be quite unfulfilling, whilst the fear of catastrophic failure got too much. The 928S wasn't a good purchase and spent most of its time rotting away, it leaked, it had various faults, it was ultimately a bad example.
Whilst the heads telling me to buy something sensible, I'm using man maths and new car depreciation to justify the consideration of a 944. I've always fancied a Nissan GTR R32, but at my age they're too boy racerish and chavvy looking.
Am I living in cloud cuckoo land to expect a decent 944 1990/91 to be less of a disaster than the 1981 928S I purchased 10 years ago? Will it leak? Is the interior likely to be coming apart? Will one with recent belts, servicing and good history etc be a good reliable car? I'm not expecting it to be a new car by any stretch of imagination but the 928 was a real money pit, a terrible example, and I worry that I'll be revisiting this.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Cheers
I'm currently thinking about a 944 Turbo (S2) model and have a few questions.
At the moment I'm driving a Lotus Elise S2 and the obvious compromises are becoming tiresome so I think a change is in need. I previously had a 996 C4 and a 928S. The 996 didn't really inspire me, I found the interior to be awful and the drive to be quite unfulfilling, whilst the fear of catastrophic failure got too much. The 928S wasn't a good purchase and spent most of its time rotting away, it leaked, it had various faults, it was ultimately a bad example.
Whilst the heads telling me to buy something sensible, I'm using man maths and new car depreciation to justify the consideration of a 944. I've always fancied a Nissan GTR R32, but at my age they're too boy racerish and chavvy looking.
Am I living in cloud cuckoo land to expect a decent 944 1990/91 to be less of a disaster than the 1981 928S I purchased 10 years ago? Will it leak? Is the interior likely to be coming apart? Will one with recent belts, servicing and good history etc be a good reliable car? I'm not expecting it to be a new car by any stretch of imagination but the 928 was a real money pit, a terrible example, and I worry that I'll be revisiting this.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Cheers
I love these cars and have covered 100,000 miles in a 944 turbo. it was eye wateringly expensive to maintain but mine was a dd. As a weekend toy I think they're fine especially if you can service it yourself but as a dd I'd try and buy something newer. If you can get a good rust free 911 3.2C (even a targa) I'd go for one of those instead as they are so much more reliable - whatever you do make sure you get an inspection at a top Porsche indy before parting with any money. Having said that the two 944 S2 I had were very reliable. Just make sure they have had their cam belts done and again that there is no rot - haven't seen a good one for sale for years though or if they do come up for sale mint ones are circa £20k.
I'm lucky enough to have work on my doorstep, its literally a 15 minute walk or a 2 minutes by car, so whilst it'll get regular use on my days off, I won't rely on it.
I've had a look through the parts section of a couple of suppliers and the prices seem to be far better than a 928. I don't think the budget would stretch to a decent old 911 as the prices seem to be going up all the time, and I feel I could get a decent 944 for my money or a poor 911.
I'm not interested in an M3 at all.
I've had a look through the parts section of a couple of suppliers and the prices seem to be far better than a 928. I don't think the budget would stretch to a decent old 911 as the prices seem to be going up all the time, and I feel I could get a decent 944 for my money or a poor 911.
I'm not interested in an M3 at all.
RowntreesCabana said:
I'm lucky enough to have work on my doorstep, its literally a 15 minute walk or a 2 minutes by car, so whilst it'll get regular use on my days off, I won't rely on it.
I've had a look through the parts section of a couple of suppliers and the prices seem to be far better than a 928. I don't think the budget would stretch to a decent old 911 as the prices seem to be going up all the time, and I feel I could get a decent 944 for my money or a poor 911.
I'm not interested in an M3 at all.
A good local independent workshop, a realistic annual budget and I'd do it again in a heart beat.I've had a look through the parts section of a couple of suppliers and the prices seem to be far better than a 928. I don't think the budget would stretch to a decent old 911 as the prices seem to be going up all the time, and I feel I could get a decent 944 for my money or a poor 911.
I'm not interested in an M3 at all.
The 968 is a good call though.
The 80's booOOST is addictive but ultimately adds cost anbd complexity to the running gear. The NA of a good S2 or 968 might well prove the better bet.
RowntreesCabana said:
Its the turbo boost that I'm attracted too though, I've not done it yet, always had NA.
So what are these cars like with regards to leaks etc? Is it going to be a condensation nightmare in the winter? Whats it like to run through a british winter?
they're a handful in the wet but very well built. You have to check old rubber seals though as these perish and can allow water through rear tailgate etc. Turbo boost is addictive. Just make sure you buy good one preferably a car thats been kept in a garage as they're prone to rust.So what are these cars like with regards to leaks etc? Is it going to be a condensation nightmare in the winter? Whats it like to run through a british winter?
yep sills rust is a biggy, and around the hatch latches, battery container in the rear....sunroof mechanism if there is one.
replace the rubber work as and when you can really...
Aluminium caliper sliders can corode and stick too.
aero mirrors, 3 spoke steering wheel, MO30 suspension, bridge spoiler
for the use you have intended for one, you'll grin alot and it should look after you fine.
replace the rubber work as and when you can really...
Aluminium caliper sliders can corode and stick too.
aero mirrors, 3 spoke steering wheel, MO30 suspension, bridge spoiler
for the use you have intended for one, you'll grin alot and it should look after you fine.
I've had my 951 getting on a year now and I'm smitten by it. They're practical, exciting and with some very basic modifications they are as quick a car as you need on the public roads IMO.
Most will need some bits doing and parts can be pricy and some jobs are very time consuming, but if you're handy with the spanners like me they're quite a nice car to work on. The engineering for the period is second to none.
I recently considered selling up and moving on to a 996, but after driving a friend's very nice C2 I was left cold by the experience. Jumping back in the 951 after that (we were on the Evo Triangle at the time...) just felt like home! They're a far more mechanical drive than a modern Porsche, which I really like.
You'll hear the usual horror stories that go around for any old depreciated premium car, but this is normally down to poor maintenance. Providing they’re well maintained they should be reliable. I’ve done around 5k in mine this year, including a trip to the fartherland and it hasn’t missed a beat and even turns a good number on the fuel economy stakes (unless using lots of boost). It did let me down once though which was entirely my own fault!!! Note: remember to use Loctite on the rotor arm screw… If well maintained they should be very reliable.
Some bits are expensive, but it’s a Porsche and you shouldn’t be replacing the same part twice (consumables aside). I’ve not owned a 928, but reputations would suggest a 951 has the potential to be the more reliable car and should be easier to maintain. I’m a handy engineer type and I know I wouldn’t go near a 928, but then again it’s a bit too much of a GT for my tastes.
Just for info there’s no such car as a 944 Turbo S2; the later 951’s were ‘SE’ models which shared a lot of parts with the Turbo S, the S2 is the 3.0 16v model that was a replacement for the earlier ‘S’ model. S2 doesn’t designate ‘series 2’ as many people expect, the 944 is a continuous model line.
Here’s a cheeky vid of mine around Curborough which shows how much fun they can be (note this is on worn old Koni’s…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcscJUtd4bE
HTH!
R
Most will need some bits doing and parts can be pricy and some jobs are very time consuming, but if you're handy with the spanners like me they're quite a nice car to work on. The engineering for the period is second to none.
I recently considered selling up and moving on to a 996, but after driving a friend's very nice C2 I was left cold by the experience. Jumping back in the 951 after that (we were on the Evo Triangle at the time...) just felt like home! They're a far more mechanical drive than a modern Porsche, which I really like.
You'll hear the usual horror stories that go around for any old depreciated premium car, but this is normally down to poor maintenance. Providing they’re well maintained they should be reliable. I’ve done around 5k in mine this year, including a trip to the fartherland and it hasn’t missed a beat and even turns a good number on the fuel economy stakes (unless using lots of boost). It did let me down once though which was entirely my own fault!!! Note: remember to use Loctite on the rotor arm screw… If well maintained they should be very reliable.
Some bits are expensive, but it’s a Porsche and you shouldn’t be replacing the same part twice (consumables aside). I’ve not owned a 928, but reputations would suggest a 951 has the potential to be the more reliable car and should be easier to maintain. I’m a handy engineer type and I know I wouldn’t go near a 928, but then again it’s a bit too much of a GT for my tastes.
Just for info there’s no such car as a 944 Turbo S2; the later 951’s were ‘SE’ models which shared a lot of parts with the Turbo S, the S2 is the 3.0 16v model that was a replacement for the earlier ‘S’ model. S2 doesn’t designate ‘series 2’ as many people expect, the 944 is a continuous model line.
Here’s a cheeky vid of mine around Curborough which shows how much fun they can be (note this is on worn old Koni’s…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcscJUtd4bE
HTH!
R
I find the clubsport wheel gives me really sweaty palms, must be my soft hands... Oh and the air freshner is the only thing I could bring myself to buy amongst all the tat they sell there these days!! This video from back in the day when these cars were the original Porsche Cup car is one of the best adverts ever for these cars;
http://youtu.be/5GRZSU-c3tI
http://youtu.be/5GRZSU-c3tI
I think your challenge is finding a good one.. Although having said that there are a couple of people on the PCGB forum floating ideas about selling a couple of nice ones. What's your budget? You can probably pay between £5k and £20k for a 944 turbo now.
How much work & ongoing maintenance are you happy to do yourself? If the answer is not much, do you have a good local garage with 944 experience? You will need it at some point.
Great cars, easy to drive day to day, robust interiors and very solidly built. I didn't find them a problem in the wet. Proper mechanical feel to them and very satisfying to drive. They are getting on a bit now, and almost all of them will need some sort of remedial work. Sunroofs can be leaky, but may not be detected if the PO has always garaged their car.
I think all turbos had aircon as standard - not many still have it working though. Find one that does (and is leak free) and I don't see why you should have any condensation problems.
How much work & ongoing maintenance are you happy to do yourself? If the answer is not much, do you have a good local garage with 944 experience? You will need it at some point.
Great cars, easy to drive day to day, robust interiors and very solidly built. I didn't find them a problem in the wet. Proper mechanical feel to them and very satisfying to drive. They are getting on a bit now, and almost all of them will need some sort of remedial work. Sunroofs can be leaky, but may not be detected if the PO has always garaged their car.
I think all turbos had aircon as standard - not many still have it working though. Find one that does (and is leak free) and I don't see why you should have any condensation problems.
Edited by edh on Monday 24th November 11:15
edh said:
I think your challenge is finding a good one.. Although having said that there are a couple of people on the PCGB forum floating ideas about selling a couple of nice ones. What's your budget? You can probably pay between £5k and £20k for a 944 turbo now.
Putting aside something like a one owner, very, very low mileage factory mint car, I think anyone that pays anything like £20k in the current market wants their head looking at. Someone that disagrees probably has their own agenda. There are still enough cars around between £5-15k to satisfy the very limited demand.IMI A said:
they're a handful in the wet but very well built. You have to check old rubber seals though as these perish and can allow water through rear tailgate etc. Turbo boost is addictive. Just make sure you buy good one preferably a car thats been kept in a garage as they're prone to rust.
Forgot to mention this in my earlier replies, but it's interesting you should say that about the wet weather handling as much like Ed I find mine is great in the wet and I'd go as far to say its one of the most enjoyable and predicable cars to punt around in wet conditions. Sure if you're too greedy the rear will step out, but it's always intuitive and predicable. Mine has an LSD which helps with traction, but not necessary stability on gnarly B roads so I'd expect an open diff'd car to be if anything more stable in wet conditions. That Turbo Cup vid is a fun watch! The only proof you need to show how involving a 944 can be
oh and the noise, who says an inline 4 sounds boring!!.. I have owned 2 944s in my time (the first being an S2) and my final one was a Turbo 250, with these being my thoughts .
IMO if you are willing to swallow the odd large bill (surely, most old cars come with these) in addition to maintaining them well (IMO doing part of it yourself does go a long way) a 944 should not treat you badly.
I owned my Turbo for almost 2 years and 9,000 miles with it being a sturdy machine. The mileage was higher than my first S2 by quite a way and initially it did not even look as pretty intiially as my S2 but it was a better car by quite a way as a result of the money being spent on the car over the years.
As for them being iffy in the wet I agree that they demand respect in the wet but with good tyres, suspension and geometry they are just fine. With any of the above being out kilter things certainly become interesting and spoil the 944 experience IME.
In short, go for it but choose wisely ; finding the right car can be tricky.
.IMO if you are willing to swallow the odd large bill (surely, most old cars come with these) in addition to maintaining them well (IMO doing part of it yourself does go a long way) a 944 should not treat you badly.
I owned my Turbo for almost 2 years and 9,000 miles with it being a sturdy machine. The mileage was higher than my first S2 by quite a way and initially it did not even look as pretty intiially as my S2 but it was a better car by quite a way as a result of the money being spent on the car over the years.
As for them being iffy in the wet I agree that they demand respect in the wet but with good tyres, suspension and geometry they are just fine. With any of the above being out kilter things certainly become interesting and spoil the 944 experience IME.
In short, go for it but choose wisely ; finding the right car can be tricky.
By modern standards a 944 turbo is a handful in the wet - perhaps tyres have improved but compared to my current hack which is a 911 turbo road limpet edition. I never had an issue with my car but there were lots of opposite lock moments especially in the wet if trying to press on. Far more so than in my S2. God that was a long time ago!
I had a 1991 Turbo SE for a couple of years, in Germany.
Pros
A real sports car/GT.
Capable handling..Fun/chuckable at low speeds, very precise/predictable & stable at high speeds.
Very tied down damping, yet very consistent grip on rough roads.
Quick, feels faster than the figures suggest, especially above 80mph.
Reliable.
Fuel efficient, if you drive with the normal traffic flow.
Cons
Powertrain torque control, basically when you back off the throttle the engine feels like it has delayed torque reduction. This makes the car more difficult to manage in power oversteer. It is not terrible, just worse than a NA engine.
Oil consumption with continuous high speed, 1l per fuel tank. In normal use the car used no oil.
I drove mine hard in the wet, never noticed it was tricky to drive. It was very comfortable over long distances, as the seats and ergonomics are very good.
Pros
A real sports car/GT.
Capable handling..Fun/chuckable at low speeds, very precise/predictable & stable at high speeds.
Very tied down damping, yet very consistent grip on rough roads.
Quick, feels faster than the figures suggest, especially above 80mph.
Reliable.
Fuel efficient, if you drive with the normal traffic flow.
Cons
Powertrain torque control, basically when you back off the throttle the engine feels like it has delayed torque reduction. This makes the car more difficult to manage in power oversteer. It is not terrible, just worse than a NA engine.
Oil consumption with continuous high speed, 1l per fuel tank. In normal use the car used no oil.
I drove mine hard in the wet, never noticed it was tricky to drive. It was very comfortable over long distances, as the seats and ergonomics are very good.
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