Is the 944 4 cylinder interesting enough?
Discussion
KittyLitter said:
Current prices are eye-watering. I turned one of these down, from a respected independent a few years ago, for £7k!ChrisW. said:
But that doesn't mean that the car wasn't worth the asking price 
It just wasn't to you ....
What surprises me are the cars that aren't sold for months and the prices increase .... maybe the dealers covering their stocking costs with stock appreciation ?
Oh, I'm sure it was. My point was just how much the prices have risen since then. That was in 2013.It just wasn't to you ....
What surprises me are the cars that aren't sold for months and the prices increase .... maybe the dealers covering their stocking costs with stock appreciation ?
My Dad had an N/A 944 back in the early noughties. I drove it a fair bit.
I found it to be very capable but unengaging. It handled very well and did the job it was designed to do, but lacked charm. A more characterful engine would have helped.
Never drove a turbo, but I'm not sure that just more power from the same lump would be the answer.
I found it to be very capable but unengaging. It handled very well and did the job it was designed to do, but lacked charm. A more characterful engine would have helped.
Never drove a turbo, but I'm not sure that just more power from the same lump would be the answer.
Talk to Jon Mitchell of JMG:
https://jmgporsche.co.uk/
The 944 turbo is sweetest at 400 bhp / 400 lb /ft state of tune - in that state of tune the performance is similar to a stock 996 turbo, maybe a bit quicker.
There are guys in the US running 3 litre 16 valve turbo's at 500+ whp but that's very expensive & the returns are diminishing.
Jon can readily tune a 2.5 litre 8 valve turbo to around 420 bhp / 420 lb /ft - after that the costs start to get out of hand.
https://jmgporsche.co.uk/
The 944 turbo is sweetest at 400 bhp / 400 lb /ft state of tune - in that state of tune the performance is similar to a stock 996 turbo, maybe a bit quicker.
There are guys in the US running 3 litre 16 valve turbo's at 500+ whp but that's very expensive & the returns are diminishing.
Jon can readily tune a 2.5 litre 8 valve turbo to around 420 bhp / 420 lb /ft - after that the costs start to get out of hand.
paulguitar said:
ChrisW. said:
But that doesn't mean that the car wasn't worth the asking price
It just wasn't to you ....
What surprises me are the cars that aren't sold for months and the prices increase .... maybe the dealers covering their stocking costs with stock appreciation ?
Oh, I'm sure it was. My point was just how much the prices have risen since then. That was in 2013.It just wasn't to you ....
What surprises me are the cars that aren't sold for months and the prices increase .... maybe the dealers covering their stocking costs with stock appreciation ?
Penguinracer said:
That's a really old link now, accurate but old (last modified 2013!). I don't know how much 944 work Jon (or anyone else to some extent) does now as they are significantly less prevalent than they were 10 years ago. Most "old" porsches are 996s and boxsters now. I don't think they make a good number of the repro parts they used to for 944s or at least only to order.I drive mine 2 or 3 times a week. You can get 300bhp and a bit very easily with bolt on mods, wastegate, exhaust, ecu/dme chips. KWv3 dampers are good but not cheap etc. They are a good drive when set up properly, mine is ok but I dare say for proper fast road driving there is still lots to do.
16" tyre options are getting a bit thin on the ground too now.
Special - more than it used to be, certainly more people seem to like seeing it. It has passed just being an old car in the being appreciated group.
But prices for good ones are high and I'd want to look very carefully at how good a 25k car is as they are quite capable of big bills.
Oh and they rust, alot.
I ran a lightly modified (300ish bhp) turbo in the late 90s / early 00s.
The old school boost never got boring, even if the engine sound isn't that great. As in-line 4s go it's a good engine. 300 bhp is easily achieved, and reliable. Handling wise, they're great and nicely balanced.
I prefer the sound of my Boxster, but I do miss the nothing . . nothing . . nothing .. boooooooost feeling of the 944 sometimes.
The old school boost never got boring, even if the engine sound isn't that great. As in-line 4s go it's a good engine. 300 bhp is easily achieved, and reliable. Handling wise, they're great and nicely balanced.
I prefer the sound of my Boxster, but I do miss the nothing . . nothing . . nothing .. boooooooost feeling of the 944 sometimes.
My 2.7 litre original block 944 turbo rebuild is 90% complete just needing the Emtron KV8 ECU wired up & mapped.
My spec is essentially:
(1) Darton MID 104mm wet liners (closed deck)
(2) Dry-sumped (3-stage scavenge pump) & Petersen 3 gallon oil tank mounted in the spare wheel well.;
(3) Carillo rods;
(4) Mahle Motorsport pistons (8:1);
(5) N/A Cylinder head (ported & polished by Speed Force Racing (SFR);
(6) Ferrea Super alloy valves;
(6) Jon Milledge engineering 8SR-14A Camshaft;
(7) Garrett GTX3576R Gen 2 turbo;
(8) Emtron KV8 ECU;
(9) SFR intake manifold with 70mm Porsche 928 tb;
(10) Elephant Racing Rose-joined suspension;
(11) KW Clubsport coilovers;
(12) SFR Stage 2 intercooler;
(13) Wizard alloy radiator;
(14) Setrab transmission oil cooler;
(15) Setrab power steering oil cooler;
(16) Setrab 925 engine oil cooler;
(17)Tarrett Engineering ARB's;
(18) Front brakes - Porsche Big Blacks with Paid RS29 pads & Titanium backing plates & 5/33 proportioning valve;
(19) Recaro Classic Pole Position seats (leather)
(20) 2sets of 18" wheels - Porsche Technology hollow spokes & Fuchs 18" forged;
(21) Tyres - set of Yokohama A048R & a set of Yokohama A052R (F 225/40/18; R 265/35/18)
(21) Rennline alloy under body trays;
(22) SFR stage 2 fuel system with twin Bosch 044 feed pumps & a 044 lift pump;
(23) Lindsey Racing (LR) valve springs;
(24) LR engine and trans Ultramounts;
(25) Kennedy Engineering Stage 1 clutch plate;
(26) Kennedy Engineering Stage & Stage 2 pressure plates;
(27) TTV flywheel with 60-2 ring gear for crank sensor;
(28) Clewett Enginnering cam sensor kit (fully sequential ignition & injection);
(29) Raceware head studs;
(30) Plex SDM-200 micro display in the central console cubby pace;
(31) Selectable engine map rotary switch on the centre console;
(32) Tial F46 wastegate;
(33) Tial QR BOV;
(34) Racers Edge Billet control arms
(35) ID1300X injectors;
(36) reinforce bulkhead / firewall;
(37) Bracing Bracket for clutch m/c
Numerous supporting mods.
My spec is essentially:
(1) Darton MID 104mm wet liners (closed deck)
(2) Dry-sumped (3-stage scavenge pump) & Petersen 3 gallon oil tank mounted in the spare wheel well.;
(3) Carillo rods;
(4) Mahle Motorsport pistons (8:1);
(5) N/A Cylinder head (ported & polished by Speed Force Racing (SFR);
(6) Ferrea Super alloy valves;
(6) Jon Milledge engineering 8SR-14A Camshaft;
(7) Garrett GTX3576R Gen 2 turbo;
(8) Emtron KV8 ECU;
(9) SFR intake manifold with 70mm Porsche 928 tb;
(10) Elephant Racing Rose-joined suspension;
(11) KW Clubsport coilovers;
(12) SFR Stage 2 intercooler;
(13) Wizard alloy radiator;
(14) Setrab transmission oil cooler;
(15) Setrab power steering oil cooler;
(16) Setrab 925 engine oil cooler;
(17)Tarrett Engineering ARB's;
(18) Front brakes - Porsche Big Blacks with Paid RS29 pads & Titanium backing plates & 5/33 proportioning valve;
(19) Recaro Classic Pole Position seats (leather)
(20) 2sets of 18" wheels - Porsche Technology hollow spokes & Fuchs 18" forged;
(21) Tyres - set of Yokohama A048R & a set of Yokohama A052R (F 225/40/18; R 265/35/18)
(21) Rennline alloy under body trays;
(22) SFR stage 2 fuel system with twin Bosch 044 feed pumps & a 044 lift pump;
(23) Lindsey Racing (LR) valve springs;
(24) LR engine and trans Ultramounts;
(25) Kennedy Engineering Stage 1 clutch plate;
(26) Kennedy Engineering Stage & Stage 2 pressure plates;
(27) TTV flywheel with 60-2 ring gear for crank sensor;
(28) Clewett Enginnering cam sensor kit (fully sequential ignition & injection);
(29) Raceware head studs;
(30) Plex SDM-200 micro display in the central console cubby pace;
(31) Selectable engine map rotary switch on the centre console;
(32) Tial F46 wastegate;
(33) Tial QR BOV;
(34) Racers Edge Billet control arms
(35) ID1300X injectors;
(36) reinforce bulkhead / firewall;
(37) Bracing Bracket for clutch m/c
Numerous supporting mods.
There's also Zircotec ceramic coated SFR headers & 3" exhaust system in there with a single Borla XL muffler.
The turbo has a compressor wheel speed sensor feeding data to the ECU & there's a Turbosmart OPR V2 oil pressure regulator feeding the turbo.
These modes should realise its potential.
It's a matching numbers car, so taking the bore to 104mm to make it a 2.7 litre was as far as I wanted to go as the short stroke keeps it revvy, good rod angles, reduces piston speeds & optimises the rod length: stroke ratio.
The turbo has a compressor wheel speed sensor feeding data to the ECU & there's a Turbosmart OPR V2 oil pressure regulator feeding the turbo.
These modes should realise its potential.
It's a matching numbers car, so taking the bore to 104mm to make it a 2.7 litre was as far as I wanted to go as the short stroke keeps it revvy, good rod angles, reduces piston speeds & optimises the rod length: stroke ratio.
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