Mid engined driving tips

[Johnson897210]

Have just bought a 981 Cayman GTS after a succession of BMWs so I'm used to RWD but is there anything to watch out for with these mid engined cars? I recall a thread some time ago about a guy who aquaplaned one into the central reservation and am conscious of the weather now we are getting into winter proper as I will daily drive it year round. Cheers for any tips or guidance, circuit or trailbraking tips also appreciated vs driving on the road.

Edited by Johnson897210 on Tuesday 19th November 14:11

[DJMC]

I bought my 981C in November and immediately booked a "half day warm up" at the Porsche Experience Centre so as to get to grips with how it handles. I asked my nearest and dearest for it as an early Christmas present.
I thoroughly recommend you do the same.

[LennyM1984]

Everything you will ever need to know about driving a Cayman (or indeed any car) is contained in the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbuRCLQEsQ

Key takeouts are:

1. Smash it into gear
2. Treat the rev counter like one of those punch bags at an amusement park (you win if you can get it right to the very top on a downshift)
3. Keep weight distribution centred by only ever having one hand on the steering wheel

The rest will just come with experience...

ETA: Just noticed another key driving tip in this video, always remember to release and then reapply the throttle aggressively mid corner (it helps to boost fuel economy)

Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 19th November 19:24

[DarkVeil]

LennyM1984 said:

Everything you will ever need to know about driving a Cayman (or indeed any car) is contained in the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbuRCLQEsQ

Key takeouts are:

1. Smash it into gear
2. Treat the rev counter like one of those punch bags at an amusement park (you win if you can get it right to the very top on a downshift)
3. Keep weight distribution centred by only ever having one hand on the steering wheel

The rest will just come with experience...

ETA: Just noticed another key driving tip in this video, always remember to release and then reapply the throttle aggressively mid corner (it helps to boost fuel economy)

Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 19th November 19:24

I saw this too. Absolutely shocking.

[rbh]

DJMC said:

I bought my 981C in November and immediately booked a "half day warm up" at the Porsche Experience Centre so as to get to grips with how it handles. I asked my nearest and dearest for it as an early Christmas present.
I thoroughly recommend you do the same.

Are you implying that your nearest and dearest my pay for the day?

[Caddyshack]

Treat it like a RWD, just keep it smooth and manage weight transfer like you would in any car.

[SkinnyPete]

Johnson897210 said:

Have just bought a 981 Cayman GTS after a succession of BMWs so I'm used to RWD but is there anything to watch out for with these mid engined cars? I recall a thread some time ago about a guy who aquaplaned one into the central reservation and am conscious of the weather now we are getting into winter proper as I will daily drive it year round. Cheers for any tips or guidance, circuit or trailbraking tips also appreciated vs driving on the road.

Edited by Johnson897210 on Tuesday 19th November 14:11

Not really. 981s are very benign.

[ChrisW.]

I think what you have seen probably had more to do with:

1. Poor tyre choice
2. Cold tyres
3. Inappropriate speed
4. The unexpected ... road ... spill ... driver ... car technical issue

There's been an interesting discussion about what mid engined / rear engined / front engined really means ... it's more to do with front to rear weight distribution and polar momentum. And physics ... so the bottom line is to be mindful of all those things that might cause you a problem.

As such mid engined cars having lower polar momentum change direction more easily but if they do it unexpectedly require quicker hands to catch them ... which could be fun. For the best chance select as above ... -1, -2, -3, and try to anticipate 4

I hope this makes sense !!

[LennyM1984]

DarkVeil said:

I saw this too. Absolutely shocking.

In fairness though (and relevant to this topic) it does show how forgiving the handling of a standard Cayman is. That guy is literally doing everything possible to unbalance a car and it still just about makes it through every corner facing the right way.

I did the first trackday in my Cayman for several years on Saturday (I've been racing another car the past few years) and I was reminded just how lovely the handling was. I was only driving at 6 or 7/10ths (I went to learn the circuit for next year and to escape the kids for a day) but the car would just turn in so nicely and then effortlessly maintain a perfect amount of slide through the mid corner and exit.

[Caddyshack]

LennyM1984 said:

DarkVeil said:

I saw this too. Absolutely shocking.

In fairness though (and relevant to this topic) it does show how forgiving the handling of a standard Cayman is. That guy is literally doing everything possible to unbalance a car and it still just about makes it through every corner facing the right way.

I did the first trackday in my Cayman for several years on Saturday (I've been racing another car the past few years) and I was reminded just how lovely the handling was. I was only driving at 6 or 7/10ths (I went to learn the circuit for next year and to escape the kids for a day) but the car would just turn in so nicely and then effortlessly maintain a perfect amount of slide through the mid corner and exit.

Yes, many cars with less sophisticated chassis / electronics and benign handling would have punted him off before the third corner…I’d love to see him try that in a 1984 carrera.

[ChrisW.]

LennyM1984 said:

Everything you will ever need to know about driving a Cayman (or indeed any car) is contained in the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbuRCLQEsQ

Key takeouts are:

1. Smash it into gear
2. Treat the rev counter like one of those punch bags at an amusement park (you win if you can get it right to the very top on a downshift)
3. Keep weight distribution centred by only ever having one hand on the steering wheel

The rest will just come with experience...

ETA: Just noticed another key driving tip in this video, always remember to release and then reapply the throttle aggressively mid corner (it helps to boost fuel economy)

Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 19th November 19:24

Always remember, keep your hand on the gear lever at all times

A great spoof .. even down to the Dave Botterell crash helmet ?

Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 19th November 21:04

[Skyedriver]

With a mid engined car the polar moment of inertia is lower than a front engined rear wheel drive car so you can corner faster.There's less pendulum motion. But when it lets go it's usually more snap and rotate.

[n12maser]

Waiting for Steve Rance to come in and basically say you should drive it like you drive any other car on the road. And he knows a thing or two about driving

[DJMC]

rbh said:

DJMC said:

I bought my 981C in November and immediately booked a "half day warm up" at the Porsche Experience Centre so as to get to grips with how it handles. I asked my nearest and dearest for it as an early Christmas present.
I thoroughly recommend you do the same.

Are you implying that your nearest and dearest my pay for the day?

I think you missed out the words "use" and "credit card to" as in:

"Are you implying that your nearest and dearest use my credit card to pay for the day?"

I did wonder if you'd volunteer to pay, and I was right, you have!

[Crudeoink]

I find trail braking more advantageous in my Porsche than other cars I've driven. Other than that I'd just recommend spending time getting used to the car. The only time I ever got a bit caught out was braking into a corner in the wet and was surprised how much the front pushed on, in fairness it was on old tyres at the time and I've since removed some toe in from the front axle along with new tyres it turns in much better now!

[LiamH66]

ChrisW. said:

<snip> There's been an interesting discussion about what mid engined / rear engined / front engined really means ... it's more to do with front to rear weight distribution and polar momentum. And physics ... so the bottom line is to be mindful of all those things that might cause you a problem.

As such mid engined cars having lower polar momentum change direction more easily but if they do it unexpectedly require quicker hands to catch them ... which could be fun. For the best chance select as above ... -1, -2, -3, and try to anticipate 4

I hope this makes sense !!

This! Fast hands, slow feet turn out to be the answer when you get into difficulties. They are absolute pussycats 99% of the time, but always bear in mind how close you are sitting to the centre of gravity, which is great in terms of absolute grip, but means it's harder to feel unintentional rotation, or lack of it (AKA spinning the car, or heading into a hedge straight on).

I've spent a serious amount of time on the Porsche Experience Centre Silverstone (PEC) low friction circuits making sure I'll likely avoid stuffing a Cayman, and many hours on track without doing that thing yet. In an understeer situation, it's all relatively similar to any other car, albeit with less weight on the front axle. But oversteer can catch you out when you're not used to it. If you leave all the driver aids on it's fairly easy to keep everything looking tidy. Can get a bit out of hand if you've turned them all off.

A trip to the PEC is a good investment as suggested. Most instructors have said unprompted that although the mid-engined cars are probably the best handling, they are the hardest to catch and balance a controlled slide with. 4th and 5th Cayman for me so far, and I have a lot of serious kart racing experience, but I don't ever underestimate that it's a learnt experience, so I've concentrated on learning it.

They really don't bite without being provoked, but it's a good idea to get a feel for when you might be provoking them. It's a little different from most.

Liam

Edited by LiamH66 on Wednesday 20th November 22:31

[Caddyshack]

LiamH66 said:

ChrisW. said:

<snip> There's been an interesting discussion about what mid engined / rear engined / front engined really means ... it's more to do with front to rear weight distribution and polar momentum. And physics ... so the bottom line is to be mindful of all those things that might cause you a problem.

As such mid engined cars having lower polar momentum change direction more easily but if they do it unexpectedly require quicker hands to catch them ... which could be fun. For the best chance select as above ... -1, -2, -3, and try to anticipate 4

I hope this makes sense !!

This! Fast hands, slow feet turn out to be the answer when you get into difficulties. They are absolute pussycats 99% of the time, but always bear in mind how close you are sitting to the centre of gravity, which is great in terms of absolute grip, but means it's harder to feel unintentional rotation, or lack of it (AKA spinning the car, or heading into a hedge straight on).

I've spent a serious amount of time on the PEC low friction circuits making sure I'll likely avoid stuffing a Cayman, and many hours on track without doing that thing yet. In an understeer situation, it's all relatively similar to any other car, albeit with less weight on the front axle. But oversteer can catch you out when you're not used to it. If you leave all the driver aids on it's fairly easy to keep everything looking tidy. Can get a bit out of hand if you've turned them all off.

A trip to the PEC is a good investment as suggested. Most instructors have said unprompted that although the mid-engined cars are probably the best handling, they are the hardest to catch and balance a controlled slide with. 4th and 5th Cayman for me so far, and I have a lot of serious kart racing experience, but I don't ever underestimate that it's a learnt experience, so I've concentrated on learning it.

They really don't bite without being provoked, but it's a good idea to get a feel for when you might be provoking them. It's a little different from most.

Liam

You might need to explain what PEC means or where it is? We used to use Motor industry Reasearch (MIRA)

The biggest thing I learned on wet handling courses is to unwind the lock when the car understeers (any car) as tyres grip best when straight ahead. The natural reaction is to turn the wheel more when it pushes on (see the terrible vid of the cayman) but if you unwind the lock the grip returns….it takes practice for it to become second nature but feels like witch craft when the grip comes back immediately.

[Slippydiff]

ChrisW. said:

Always remember, keep your hand on the gear lever at all times

A great spoof .. even down to the Dave Botterell crash helmet ?

I was doing my best, my instructor told me to make use of all the circuit, so I maximised my use of it on corner exit. It seemed to be working ok I thought ?

My instructor said I should be on the edge of the front tyre’s adhesion during the braking phase (or perhaps he meant the breaking phase?) either way, I listened out until the tyres were squealing heavily and the car seemed to slow down pretty well.
As the front tyres were clearly at the point of maximum adhesion, I figured the rears should be too, so I changed down as many gears as I could, as quickly as I could (helped by my newly installed quick shift, it’s a new brand called the Achme Synchro Destroyer) having my hand on the gearshift all the time allows me to execute faster shifts without have to think about it, and this seemed to very efficiently bring the rear tyres to the limit of their adhesion and help to rotate the car into the corner. I’ve heard the F1 drivers talking about this stuff, and I have to say, it did work for me rather well I thought ?

On some corners I think my corner entry speed was spot on, so much so the front tyres were right on the limit of adhesion (some might even say I was over it) I then employed the Ayrton Senna technique of mashing the throttle as hard as I could, followed by lifting off the throttle completely, this enabled the front tyres to grip, and also caused the rear of the car to rotate, this crude form of traction control also enabled me to maximise my use of the available space on track (some may say off it as well) but all I can say is the circuit owners did actually thank me for my grass-cutting services after the session…

This was my 27th trackday, and I’m glad to say my driving is now far smoother and my lap times more consistent than my first trackday outing in April of this year.
I’ve gradually finessed my heel and toe downshifts to the point they’re all but imperceptible.

I’ve got through quite a lot of valve springs, valves and a few pistons too, but I suspect this is just the inherent weakness of the M97 engine, rather than any issue with my driving or my maintenance schedule.

I’m considering changing to Mezger engined 996 or 997 GT3 next year, as I’m told the Mezger is ”all but bullet-proof” and being able to change down from 6th to 3rd by block shifting, and the engine being able to survive 9,500 rpm downshifts, should drastically improve my lap times.

As can be seen from my video, I’ve already perfected the subtle art of using weight transfer to load up the front tyres, so the transition to the 911 chassis should be pretty easy for me as I understand it ?

I look forward to seeing you guys out on track next year

[JayK12]

LennyM1984 said:

Everything you will ever need to know about driving a Cayman (or indeed any car) is contained in the below video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbuRCLQEsQ

Key takeouts are:

1. Smash it into gear
2. Treat the rev counter like one of those punch bags at an amusement park (you win if you can get it right to the very top on a downshift)
3. Keep weight distribution centred by only ever having one hand on the steering wheel

The rest will just come with experience...

ETA: Just noticed another key driving tip in this video, always remember to release and then reapply the throttle aggressively mid corner (it helps to boost fuel economy)

Edited by LennyM1984 on Tuesday 19th November 19:24

"why change brake pads when you can just change the engine" - best comment haha.

[JayK12]

Johnson897210 said:

Have just bought a 981 Cayman GTS after a succession of BMWs so I'm used to RWD but is there anything to watch out for with these mid engined cars? I recall a thread some time ago about a guy who aquaplaned one into the central reservation and am conscious of the weather now we are getting into winter proper as I will daily drive it year round. Cheers for any tips or guidance, circuit or trailbraking tips also appreciated vs driving on the road.

Edited by Johnson897210 on Tuesday 19th November 14:11

Having had both, GTS's and BMW M Cars also, honestly you have nothing to worry about. The mechanical grip of the GTS is plenty on the road. Good tyres that aren't really really old and drive to the conditions and its fine. I'd have PS4S or SC7 than P Zero's especially over the winter. On the limit things change with front rwd and mid rwd, on the limit I found the M cars to be more progressive and easier to balance when they do step out, although the M2s short wheel base did make it snappy, the GTS will break away quicker when it goes and it need quicker reactions imo, however on the road its fine, you really have to be on the limit to have any issues. Enjoy, there great fun!