GT4 PCCB to iron disc options
Discussion
Shown -
Girodisc - PFC
AP Racing (essexparts/immocars)
All essentially a two-piece iron rotor with an aluminium hats.
Girodisc and AP Racing using bolts and bobbins - for attaching rotor to hat
PFC uses a wrapped retaining spring clip.
They’ll have different vane counts ranging from 48-72 typically.
They’ll all be c408/410mm up front 390-400mm in the rear.
Direct replacement for the OEM system. Car might just need to be switched for Iron brakes via PIWIS.
I’d say choose based upon availability, reliability of supply and price.
Girodisc - PFC
AP Racing (essexparts/immocars)
All essentially a two-piece iron rotor with an aluminium hats.
Girodisc and AP Racing using bolts and bobbins - for attaching rotor to hat
PFC uses a wrapped retaining spring clip.
They’ll have different vane counts ranging from 48-72 typically.
They’ll all be c408/410mm up front 390-400mm in the rear.
Direct replacement for the OEM system. Car might just need to be switched for Iron brakes via PIWIS.
I’d say choose based upon availability, reliability of supply and price.
Exactly that Chris, didn’t want to absorb risks and potential high costs with PCCBs or Surface Transforms. Seen some good threads that the real life running costs can be similar but wanted to avoid the higher numbers!
The haven’t priced it up yet but looks about £900 a corner for iron disks plus pads for the GT4
The haven’t priced it up yet but looks about £900 a corner for iron disks plus pads for the GT4
What’s the thinking these day on the PCCB brakes for those who track regularly?
I sold my 997 GT3 at the beginning of the year and now considering either a 991.2 or 992 for next spring.
Is it still the case that the Carbon brakes aren’t up to the job of regular track days?
Just to expensive to due to wear or possible damage.
Is it worth the additional prelim for a PCCB car if you intend doing 10 TDs a year?
I sold my 997 GT3 at the beginning of the year and now considering either a 991.2 or 992 for next spring.
Is it still the case that the Carbon brakes aren’t up to the job of regular track days?
Just to expensive to due to wear or possible damage.
Is it worth the additional prelim for a PCCB car if you intend doing 10 TDs a year?
Discs without the hats once you’ve worn out the first set of discs will be a little cheaper than then £900 per corner for the initial set. You’ll need call the retailer to get them to price you naked discs as online I don’t think any of the usuals list the naked discs.
However as stated think about which type/brand you prefer and availability. The usual sources from experience do not carry the discs either assembled for naked in stock so replacement needs to be planned for, rather than a oh s
t I need new discs for X trackday.
However as stated think about which type/brand you prefer and availability. The usual sources from experience do not carry the discs either assembled for naked in stock so replacement needs to be planned for, rather than a oh s
t I need new discs for X trackday. As always it depends upon how hard you work them and how well you cool them down.
They are all consumables having a life measured in the number of sets of pads consumed by them, but there is also the question of heat soak particularly with PCCB's.
My experience on my GT4 was:
1. PCCB's fitted from new were replaced at 9000 miles with Surface transforms and subsequently measured to be half worn. PCCB pads (RSC1's) to half worn lasted three or four trackdays and were often badly cracked by heat soak, despite two cooling down laps. At that stage the PCCB's could not have done more than 15 track days and I still have them boxed up following the Carboteq evaluation.
2. My Surface Transforms required refurbishing after around 50 track days with pads (RSC1's) lasting around 10 track days per set. the cost of refurbishing was £2500 for all four and the wear on mine suggested that this could be done another four times.
3. I understand that PCCB's can be resurrected ... I had a set on my Cayman R successfully refurbished by Sicom who for a time ceased trading. This is what I have found currently:
https://www.rebrake.de/en/faq-ceramic-brake-discs-...
Steel brakes are cheaper, create a lot of brake dust, and do wear quickly when worked hard. they are also significantly heavier forcing the existing suspension to work harder / less well. How many trackdays per set ? How many trackdays per set of pads ??
4. Track miles are far harder on PCCB's than road ... heat is the enemy. On a road car they will last a very long time. On a track car, arguably not long enough !
5. Rebrake take care not to mention the long fibre Surface Transform technology which is on a different level ... and a UK company in Speke, Liverpool.
You pays your money and you takes your choice
P.S. Surface transforms are not a surface coating, they are a solid long fibre disc which can be skimmed by up to 1.5mm. Mine required skimming by 50 microns each side, and post high temperature thermal re-infusion were this skimmed another 50 microns per side, losing a total of 0.2mm of thickness in the process. Hence minor chips can be removed rather than scrapping the disc.
The danger of the surface coating of PCCB's is that any chip in the edge could result in the separation of the coating ...
You may find this interesting with PCCB's ... the Rebrake cost now appears to be around Euro 2000 per disc ...
https://www.rebrake.de/en/refurbishment/damage-to-...
They are all consumables having a life measured in the number of sets of pads consumed by them, but there is also the question of heat soak particularly with PCCB's.
My experience on my GT4 was:
1. PCCB's fitted from new were replaced at 9000 miles with Surface transforms and subsequently measured to be half worn. PCCB pads (RSC1's) to half worn lasted three or four trackdays and were often badly cracked by heat soak, despite two cooling down laps. At that stage the PCCB's could not have done more than 15 track days and I still have them boxed up following the Carboteq evaluation.
2. My Surface Transforms required refurbishing after around 50 track days with pads (RSC1's) lasting around 10 track days per set. the cost of refurbishing was £2500 for all four and the wear on mine suggested that this could be done another four times.
3. I understand that PCCB's can be resurrected ... I had a set on my Cayman R successfully refurbished by Sicom who for a time ceased trading. This is what I have found currently:
https://www.rebrake.de/en/faq-ceramic-brake-discs-...
Steel brakes are cheaper, create a lot of brake dust, and do wear quickly when worked hard. they are also significantly heavier forcing the existing suspension to work harder / less well. How many trackdays per set ? How many trackdays per set of pads ??
4. Track miles are far harder on PCCB's than road ... heat is the enemy. On a road car they will last a very long time. On a track car, arguably not long enough !
5. Rebrake take care not to mention the long fibre Surface Transform technology which is on a different level ... and a UK company in Speke, Liverpool.
You pays your money and you takes your choice
P.S. Surface transforms are not a surface coating, they are a solid long fibre disc which can be skimmed by up to 1.5mm. Mine required skimming by 50 microns each side, and post high temperature thermal re-infusion were this skimmed another 50 microns per side, losing a total of 0.2mm of thickness in the process. Hence minor chips can be removed rather than scrapping the disc.
The danger of the surface coating of PCCB's is that any chip in the edge could result in the separation of the coating ...
You may find this interesting with PCCB's ... the Rebrake cost now appears to be around Euro 2000 per disc ...
https://www.rebrake.de/en/refurbishment/damage-to-...
Edited by ChrisW. on Tuesday 1st October 10:55
Exactly that Chris, didn’t want to absorb risks and potential high costs with PCCBs or Surface Transforms. Seen some good threads that the real life running costs can be similar but wanted to avoid the higher numbers!
The haven’t priced it up yet but looks about £900 a corner for iron disks plus pads for the GT4
The haven’t priced it up yet but looks about £900 a corner for iron disks plus pads for the GT4
adbett said:
<snip>. They haven’t priced it up yet but looks about £900 a corner for iron disks plus pads for the GT4
Sounds about right. Somewhere around there for a complete set of discs, pads and sensors for my 981 GT4 last year at an indie. But I still don't understand if that is a straight fit for a PCCB car. I mean, the callipers are very yellow (or black), but does that make them totaly different from the callipers that are red (or black). One might hope discs and pads might be most of the conversion.Liam
prior to 718 RS and 992 gen GT.. steel rotors were 380mm F/R
PCCB are 410mm - F and 390mm R
PCCB callipers actually hadlonger stands/mounts as part of the casting to space them out further.
For converting a steel car to PCCB or CCST, you would need to add spacers to move the callipers out.
In 992 GT and 718 RS… steel is 408mm F and 380mm R so only the rear calliper needs spacing
In moving from PCCB to steel, the steel kits are PCCB sized so it’s just rotors.
Not other changes between the callipers as far as I know although I had heard anecdotally that the piston pucks or dust seals might be different? Not confirmed.
I’ve heard that Tequipment with Manthey offer an official PCCB conversion kit, for steel equipped cars… which supplies everything for c9k. Very interesting option, especially if Rebrake proves out…which seems to be the case.
PCCB are 410mm - F and 390mm R
PCCB callipers actually hadlonger stands/mounts as part of the casting to space them out further.
For converting a steel car to PCCB or CCST, you would need to add spacers to move the callipers out.
In 992 GT and 718 RS… steel is 408mm F and 380mm R so only the rear calliper needs spacing
In moving from PCCB to steel, the steel kits are PCCB sized so it’s just rotors.
Not other changes between the callipers as far as I know although I had heard anecdotally that the piston pucks or dust seals might be different? Not confirmed.
I’ve heard that Tequipment with Manthey offer an official PCCB conversion kit, for steel equipped cars… which supplies everything for c9k. Very interesting option, especially if Rebrake proves out…which seems to be the case.
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff