981 Vs 981S - Which would you choose and why?
Discussion
Hello
I'm thinking of selling my my current Mégane RS Trophy which is an absolutely phenomenal car, but I miss the soft top openness that I used to have with my S2000.
After a lot of research, I am eyeing up either a 981 Boxster or Boxster S. I've watched all the videos saying how they differ etc but would like real world opinions from owners, ideally those who have had both. Coming from the Mégane, I do wonder if the base models 265 HP would suddenly feel slow? On paper it's actually not far off the Megane, but would lack the torque I've become accustomed too be too noticeable?
Driving is mostly on country back roads and villages to work, but on occasion I can get to put my foot down for a bit fun.
I'm sure this has been asked hundreds of times before, but as per the title, which would you choose? Or would you not choose either and go for a base 718 instead?
I've seen a few 981 2.7 for around the £20-£25k mark, with the S going for around £35k (albeit the S at this price having the PSE). Would you save the £10-£14k and go for the base 2.7 and spent extra getting upgrades done, such as infotainment upgrade and perhaps the PSE?
Finally, I've always been a die hard manual fan. I know how good autos are now days but I find they lack something. Are there any reasons to go for one other the other though?
Thank you
I'm thinking of selling my my current Mégane RS Trophy which is an absolutely phenomenal car, but I miss the soft top openness that I used to have with my S2000.
After a lot of research, I am eyeing up either a 981 Boxster or Boxster S. I've watched all the videos saying how they differ etc but would like real world opinions from owners, ideally those who have had both. Coming from the Mégane, I do wonder if the base models 265 HP would suddenly feel slow? On paper it's actually not far off the Megane, but would lack the torque I've become accustomed too be too noticeable?
Driving is mostly on country back roads and villages to work, but on occasion I can get to put my foot down for a bit fun.
I'm sure this has been asked hundreds of times before, but as per the title, which would you choose? Or would you not choose either and go for a base 718 instead?
I've seen a few 981 2.7 for around the £20-£25k mark, with the S going for around £35k (albeit the S at this price having the PSE). Would you save the £10-£14k and go for the base 2.7 and spent extra getting upgrades done, such as infotainment upgrade and perhaps the PSE?
Finally, I've always been a die hard manual fan. I know how good autos are now days but I find they lack something. Are there any reasons to go for one other the other though?
Thank you
We've got a 2.7 981 Cayman and my wife used it as her daily for more than 5 years. Based on what you want I think it'll meet your criteria easily. She likes it that much I don't think we'll ever sell it.
I also had a 2.0 718 Boxster and that is, in my opinion, the best sports car Porsche makes today for the money. If you can push the budget a bit more, that would be my choice. The only thing you lose is the flat six howl (which is aural utopia) but that doesn't mean the flat 4 sounds bad especially with PSE and pre PPF. Others will likely disagree with that but what's important is your ears not theirs.
Best thing is to drive examples of all and see which one you would be more happy with. Also don't discount the PDK box, it's a god send when stuck in stop start traffic and quicker than the manual.
I also had a 2.0 718 Boxster and that is, in my opinion, the best sports car Porsche makes today for the money. If you can push the budget a bit more, that would be my choice. The only thing you lose is the flat six howl (which is aural utopia) but that doesn't mean the flat 4 sounds bad especially with PSE and pre PPF. Others will likely disagree with that but what's important is your ears not theirs.
Best thing is to drive examples of all and see which one you would be more happy with. Also don't discount the PDK box, it's a god send when stuck in stop start traffic and quicker than the manual.
Edited by Voodoo Blue on Monday 12th August 14:55
I had a base 987.2 with the 2.9 engine & then went to a 981 GTS with 3.4 tuned so it's not the same comparison as it spans two generations.
You can have a lot of fun with the base model, even in that you'll be pushing 70 in second gear. Will that be fun in a manual though?
£10k premium of base over S seems steep but to each their own. Although PSE will be £3k+ if installed at OPC (you might want to enquire the costs rather than rely on the website price which is always 'starting from'). So man maths can quickly sort that out for you! It'll be cheaper if you go for a non-switchable version.
718 depends if you want a Turbo or NA engine. I think for a lot of owners the rawness & sound of the NA howl is addictive; and do sacrifice that for power over the turbocharged 718. There's a reason Porsche eventually launched the GTS 4.0 litre.
Would recommend a test drive of PDK vs manual too. Good luck!
You can have a lot of fun with the base model, even in that you'll be pushing 70 in second gear. Will that be fun in a manual though?
£10k premium of base over S seems steep but to each their own. Although PSE will be £3k+ if installed at OPC (you might want to enquire the costs rather than rely on the website price which is always 'starting from'). So man maths can quickly sort that out for you! It'll be cheaper if you go for a non-switchable version.
718 depends if you want a Turbo or NA engine. I think for a lot of owners the rawness & sound of the NA howl is addictive; and do sacrifice that for power over the turbocharged 718. There's a reason Porsche eventually launched the GTS 4.0 litre.
Would recommend a test drive of PDK vs manual too. Good luck!
I always found the 2.7 a bit sluggish so would want an S minimum. 718 also a good shout as mentioned above. This would be equivalent to a 981S in power terms with far more to choose from.
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/t1bz8aupp1pe
981s are quite old now coming up to ten years minimum although you can extend a warranty up to 15 years / 125k miles if it’s kept in the dealer network.
4.0 was reintroduced at a considerable premium to capture the die hard F6 market.
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/t1bz8aupp1pe
981s are quite old now coming up to ten years minimum although you can extend a warranty up to 15 years / 125k miles if it’s kept in the dealer network.
4.0 was reintroduced at a considerable premium to capture the die hard F6 market.
OP, I bought my 981 Boxster 2.7 PDK back in February after agonising over the same question. I came from a manual 987.2 Cayman with the wonderful 2.9 engine so the performance is comparable.
I totally get the want for a manual, however I wanted to try a PDK car as mine is a daily and my use case is going to be changing soon with a lot more motorway miles. So far so good, the PDK has exceeded my expectations and having the sports steering wheel with the paddles works for me when I want have a bit of fun on the right road. So I’d try it and see what you think, especially as the PDK box has 7 gears vs the manual’s 6 which helps with the tall gearing.
I test drove both the 981 3.4S and 2.7 base over a few hours on mixed roads. The 3.4 is significantly quicker and great fun, but I decided it wasn’t worth the cost premium over the base car for a daily and I wouldn’t be able to use the extra performance very often. That said, I think your comment about missing the torque of the Megane RS is valid, you have to rev the nuts off the 2.7 for it to feel quick, so again, I think test driving both is needed for you to know for certain.
I also test drove the 2.0 718 and agree with Voodoo’s comments about it being great. They’re quick cars and the extra torque is lovely. I didn’t mind the sound and only didn’t go for a 718 as the spec and condition of my 981 was perfect and it saved me £16k on the price of getting in a newer Boxster.
My car’s thread is here if you are interested.
I totally get the want for a manual, however I wanted to try a PDK car as mine is a daily and my use case is going to be changing soon with a lot more motorway miles. So far so good, the PDK has exceeded my expectations and having the sports steering wheel with the paddles works for me when I want have a bit of fun on the right road. So I’d try it and see what you think, especially as the PDK box has 7 gears vs the manual’s 6 which helps with the tall gearing.
I test drove both the 981 3.4S and 2.7 base over a few hours on mixed roads. The 3.4 is significantly quicker and great fun, but I decided it wasn’t worth the cost premium over the base car for a daily and I wouldn’t be able to use the extra performance very often. That said, I think your comment about missing the torque of the Megane RS is valid, you have to rev the nuts off the 2.7 for it to feel quick, so again, I think test driving both is needed for you to know for certain.
I also test drove the 2.0 718 and agree with Voodoo’s comments about it being great. They’re quick cars and the extra torque is lovely. I didn’t mind the sound and only didn’t go for a 718 as the spec and condition of my 981 was perfect and it saved me £16k on the price of getting in a newer Boxster.
My car’s thread is here if you are interested.
I went for a 981 and have loved every minute. The 2.7 engine is a proper gem but it does need to be worked for the performance, not a lot happens under 4500rpm which if you've come from a turbo car it will be a shock.
I picked the 2.7 as I felt that it was fast enough and gave me everything I needed, yes its nice to have more but to be honest the 981 is such a good car you dont really feel its missing anything.
I'd go and drive both, the lesser torque in the 2.7 might be a deal breaker.
The below is from the brochure and compares the outputs from the 981 and the S. Helps illustrate how peaky the 2.7 is.
I also tried both PDK and manual, manual just edged it for me as it completed the package. Saying that, if I went for an S i'd go PDK as I feel it suits the car more.
I picked the 2.7 as I felt that it was fast enough and gave me everything I needed, yes its nice to have more but to be honest the 981 is such a good car you dont really feel its missing anything.
I'd go and drive both, the lesser torque in the 2.7 might be a deal breaker.
The below is from the brochure and compares the outputs from the 981 and the S. Helps illustrate how peaky the 2.7 is.
I also tried both PDK and manual, manual just edged it for me as it completed the package. Saying that, if I went for an S i'd go PDK as I feel it suits the car more.
Depends on car history, usage and expectations I guess. Assuming that RS is the 300bhp one? I think you're really going to feel a step down in power going to the base 981. The S is not a ballistically fast car anyway, it's quick when it's on the boil - i.e. about 5000rpm to redline - but it still needs to be worked.
FWIW, I've been on track with my 981 CGTS against an A110S (same engine/power as your Megane?) and the GTS will pull away in a straight line, but it needs to be wide open throttle and red line in each gear. I certainly wouldn't want less power. I think the platform feels so capable and like it could take more power too, which exacerbates the issue.
I'd get the S.
FWIW, I've been on track with my 981 CGTS against an A110S (same engine/power as your Megane?) and the GTS will pull away in a straight line, but it needs to be wide open throttle and red line in each gear. I certainly wouldn't want less power. I think the platform feels so capable and like it could take more power too, which exacerbates the issue.
I'd get the S.
Edited by rawenghey on Tuesday 13th August 10:45
Thanks for the replies guys. All very useful information. I'm not too scared about the lack in torque (at least in my head!) per se, as you say, on paper the base 2.7 is almost as quick as the Mégane (yes it's the 300hp/400nm trophy). Having come from an S2000 previously too, I'm used to weak torque and revving the engine to get the most out of it but do wonder how much of a shock it would be now...
I've mostly been looking at models around the 40k miles mark, but should I be scared of higher mileage ones? I've seen a few around the 60k mark and these are often around the £20k mark which seems reasonable.
I need to have a look about test driving one as you say, but there are only a few near me within 30 miles.
Out of interest, do all models have the xenon lights? The Meg does have dual LED and I'll be honest, now I've had them I'm not sure if I could live without them or Xenons
I've mostly been looking at models around the 40k miles mark, but should I be scared of higher mileage ones? I've seen a few around the 60k mark and these are often around the £20k mark which seems reasonable.
I need to have a look about test driving one as you say, but there are only a few near me within 30 miles.
Out of interest, do all models have the xenon lights? The Meg does have dual LED and I'll be honest, now I've had them I'm not sure if I could live without them or Xenons
Champion Hero said:
I've mostly been looking at models around the 40k miles mark, but should I be scared of higher mileage ones? I've seen a few around the 60k mark and these are often around the £20k mark which seems reasonable.
No reason to be scared of higher mileage ones. It's more important to buy on condiiton.An extreme example but I was speaking to a 981 Cayman S owner last week. He bought his car on 20k miles & in 8 years ownership it's now on 188k! If you saw the car you wouldn't know it at all it's so well looked after, and serviced in accordance with the manufacturer guidelines.
What you will find though is most Porsche specialists seem to seek cars at <10 years old & 60k miles which must say something about the market.
There's definitely not a £10-15k premium for the S, I think it's around £5k like for like. You're probably looking at some very ambitiously priced 981Ss but in reality they will be changing hands for a lot less than that. I picked one up for sub £20k (albeit high mileage). But as long as it's been well maintained mileage shouldn't be an issue at all.
I faced the same dilemma when these cars were quite new, I test drove both engines, and settled on the 2.7.
The reason is that I wanted an engaging road car, and I found the 2.7 to be the right power level for exploiting on the road without worrying about your license too much. Also, and a big thing for me, I found the 2.7 to be a sweeter sounding engine, due to its smaller displacement, it has less of a boom and more of a wail in the way it sounds.
The only real trouble with a 2.7 is trying to find one with decent spec. Naturally people who added a load of options and went for the 3.4, in for a penny in for a pound. A sports exhaust is a must, however at this age the valves, will likely be at the end of the free moving life, and will potentially be close to if not already stuck. They default to being stuck open, which isn’t the worst thing in the world. The giveaways is when you hear a large chirp as they open and close, that means the end is nigh. This is not a serviceable item.
I think the extended leather inside is a must, and try to avoid the base seats, they really aren’t very comfortable.
The reason is that I wanted an engaging road car, and I found the 2.7 to be the right power level for exploiting on the road without worrying about your license too much. Also, and a big thing for me, I found the 2.7 to be a sweeter sounding engine, due to its smaller displacement, it has less of a boom and more of a wail in the way it sounds.
The only real trouble with a 2.7 is trying to find one with decent spec. Naturally people who added a load of options and went for the 3.4, in for a penny in for a pound. A sports exhaust is a must, however at this age the valves, will likely be at the end of the free moving life, and will potentially be close to if not already stuck. They default to being stuck open, which isn’t the worst thing in the world. The giveaways is when you hear a large chirp as they open and close, that means the end is nigh. This is not a serviceable item.
I think the extended leather inside is a must, and try to avoid the base seats, they really aren’t very comfortable.
WCZ said:
Dunbar871 said:
I always found the 2.7 a bit sluggish so would want an S minimum.
this, have driven both extensively and personally wouldn't even bother with a non SThe 2.7 Cayman we've got on the other hand loves to rev, has real world useable performance and screams at anything over 3k rpm which generally keeps you the right side of legal. Yes, you can go faster and enjoy the extra power the S has but in my opinion you'll get more pleasure more of the time from the 2.7 mostly keeping the right side of the law.
Having said that I still bought a completely useless 718 4.0 after having a very capable 718 2.0 so what do I know
Oh, and our 981 sounds 10 times better with PSE switched on than the 718 4.0 every day of the week
Voodoo Blue said:
I'd disagree to a certain extent. My current car is a 4.0 PDK Boxster which is bonkers fast and on a clear road is a magical experience. Problem is there is no such thing as a clear road in the UK and because of that it's just got too much power to enjoy the car's full capabilities, in second gear if you want to hear the engine scream you're doing plus 70mph which obviously creates other issues if you don't want any legal complications.
The 2.7 Cayman we've got on the other hand loves to rev, has real world useable performance and screams at anything over 3k rpm which generally keeps you the right side of legal. Yes, you can go faster and enjoy the extra power the S has but in my opinion you'll get more pleasure more of the time from the 2.7 mostly keeping the right side of the law.
Having said that I still bought a completely useless 718 4.0 after having a very capable 718 2.0 so what do I know
Oh, and our 981 sounds 10 times better with PSE switched on than the 718 4.0 every day of the week
I get what you're saying and imo this applies to something like a 458 vs the 296 etc where supercar performance has basically gotten absurdly unusable outside of the track but at a lower level I personally found the non-s to just sit a little below the threshold of what I'd want a sports car to be The 2.7 Cayman we've got on the other hand loves to rev, has real world useable performance and screams at anything over 3k rpm which generally keeps you the right side of legal. Yes, you can go faster and enjoy the extra power the S has but in my opinion you'll get more pleasure more of the time from the 2.7 mostly keeping the right side of the law.
Having said that I still bought a completely useless 718 4.0 after having a very capable 718 2.0 so what do I know
Oh, and our 981 sounds 10 times better with PSE switched on than the 718 4.0 every day of the week
I ran a 981 2.7 for 40k miles and it was actually bought by one of the members who replied above, coming from a m140i it did feel pretty slow but it was actually the long ratios with the manual that killed the joy on roads as most of the time you're basically in 2nd which tops out at 70+mph, once in 3rd the car doesn't have enough torque down low to really provide much fun coming out of corners etc. I moved on to a manual e92 m3 which was no torque monster but the shorter gearing and bigger engine actually made it a more enjoyable experience most of the time.
It's also not helped by the 265 section rears which is way too fat for the amount of power the car has!
It's also not helped by the 265 section rears which is way too fat for the amount of power the car has!
WCZ said:
Dunbar871 said:
I always found the 2.7 a bit sluggish so would want an S minimum.
This, have driven both extensively and personally wouldn't even bother with a non SBit of background - I have owned two 981 Boxster S cars. First one was pretty basic, the second one has PSE, PTV, PASM, Sport Chrono etc etc. Both cars were manual.
I've also driven the 987 Cayman R, the 718 Boxster S (2.5) and the 718 Cayman GTS4.0, all three PDK, as well as various 911s in 997 and 991 flavours in both manual and PDK.
The reason I've had two 981 Boxster S cars is that my first one was written off by a dozy taxi driver. I got the second one after the insurance payout, but in the meantime I had a 718 Boxster S as an insurance loaner for several weeks.
The 718 Boxster S is an amazing car, but I really missed the sound of the flat six engine which is why ultimately, I bought another 981. But the 718 has much nicer steering than either of my 981s. More feel and more feedback and a nicer weight. But the 987 Cayman R felt even better than the later cars due to its hydraulic steering.
If you are like me and really want a manual car, then be aware that the S with its 3.4L engine has quite tall gearing. You can reach 82mph in 2nd gear, which means that for blatting around mountain roads there really isn't as much opportunity as I would like for stirring the box. And if you want to pull through the gears, you'll be in licence-losing territory before you're out of third. These same gear ratios are shared between the S, the GTS and the GT4. Meanwhile, the ratios on the smaller engine as shorter meaning you get to change gear more often. I've not actually driven a base model car, but I think I would much prefer its gear ratios. They aren't that much different - top speed in third gear on the S is 113mph vs 110mph on the base model. But I'm told that it does make a difference when driving and you get much more opportunity to shift on the base model.
However, if you want a PDK gearbox (they are fantastic and the best way to go fast) then the gear ratios are exactly the same for the base model, the S and the GTS so it doesn't matter which you choose. PDK will make sure you are always in the right gear, so the tall gearing matters less. In fact the PDK cars have 7 gears, the last of which is VERY tall which gives a nice cruising gear which the manual cars with only 6 gears don't have. They could really use a taller 6th and a shorter 1st to 5th in my opinion.
The reason for the tall gearing on the 981 S cars is to prevent them from accelerating faster than the base 911 models. That's necessary because the 981 (being mid engined) actually handles better than a 911 and if not hobbled by its gearbox, ECU and induction system, would easily beat the 911 around a track. And that would be no good for Porsche's profit margins on 991s which cost a similar amount as a 981 to build - it is after all much the same car, with a different body and with the engine and gearbox mounted the other way around.
Boxster/Cayman 981 Gear Ratios.
I got this table from some forum somewhere several years ago - can't remember where.
Manual Gear Ratios 981 (Base Model):
Manual Gear Ratios 981 (S, GTS, GT4, NOT Base):
PDK Gear Ratios 981 (Base, S, GTS):
Final reduction axle ratio 3.25
Note: Speed calculated at 7700rpm with 20 inch wheels and 265/35 tyres for a diameter of 694mm. PDK ratios for the 981 are the same as the PDK ratios found in the Carrera S. The final reduction axle ratio in the Carrera S is 3.44.
I've also driven the 987 Cayman R, the 718 Boxster S (2.5) and the 718 Cayman GTS4.0, all three PDK, as well as various 911s in 997 and 991 flavours in both manual and PDK.
The reason I've had two 981 Boxster S cars is that my first one was written off by a dozy taxi driver. I got the second one after the insurance payout, but in the meantime I had a 718 Boxster S as an insurance loaner for several weeks.
The 718 Boxster S is an amazing car, but I really missed the sound of the flat six engine which is why ultimately, I bought another 981. But the 718 has much nicer steering than either of my 981s. More feel and more feedback and a nicer weight. But the 987 Cayman R felt even better than the later cars due to its hydraulic steering.
If you are like me and really want a manual car, then be aware that the S with its 3.4L engine has quite tall gearing. You can reach 82mph in 2nd gear, which means that for blatting around mountain roads there really isn't as much opportunity as I would like for stirring the box. And if you want to pull through the gears, you'll be in licence-losing territory before you're out of third. These same gear ratios are shared between the S, the GTS and the GT4. Meanwhile, the ratios on the smaller engine as shorter meaning you get to change gear more often. I've not actually driven a base model car, but I think I would much prefer its gear ratios. They aren't that much different - top speed in third gear on the S is 113mph vs 110mph on the base model. But I'm told that it does make a difference when driving and you get much more opportunity to shift on the base model.
However, if you want a PDK gearbox (they are fantastic and the best way to go fast) then the gear ratios are exactly the same for the base model, the S and the GTS so it doesn't matter which you choose. PDK will make sure you are always in the right gear, so the tall gearing matters less. In fact the PDK cars have 7 gears, the last of which is VERY tall which gives a nice cruising gear which the manual cars with only 6 gears don't have. They could really use a taller 6th and a shorter 1st to 5th in my opinion.
The reason for the tall gearing on the 981 S cars is to prevent them from accelerating faster than the base 911 models. That's necessary because the 981 (being mid engined) actually handles better than a 911 and if not hobbled by its gearbox, ECU and induction system, would easily beat the 911 around a track. And that would be no good for Porsche's profit margins on 991s which cost a similar amount as a 981 to build - it is after all much the same car, with a different body and with the engine and gearbox mounted the other way around.
Boxster/Cayman 981 Gear Ratios.
I got this table from some forum somewhere several years ago - can't remember where.
Manual Gear Ratios 981 (Base Model):
| Gear | Ratio | KPH | MPH (7700rpm) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 3.67 | 70 | 44 |
| 2 | 2.05 | 125 | 78 |
| 3 | 1.46 | 176 | 110 |
| 4 | 1.13 | 228 | 142 |
| 5 | 0.97 | 265 | 166 |
| 6 | 0.84 | 306 | 191 |
Manual Gear Ratios 981 (S, GTS, GT4, NOT Base):
| Gear | Ratio | KPH | MPH (7700rpm) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 3.31 | 77 | 48 |
| 2 | 1.95 | 130 | 82 |
| 3 | 1.41 | 180 | 113 |
| 4 | 1.13 | 225 | 141 |
| 5 | 1.08 | 268 | 167 |
| 6 | 0.95 | 314 | 196 |
PDK Gear Ratios 981 (Base, S, GTS):
| Gear | Ratio | KPH | MPH (7700rpm) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 3.91 | 79 | 49 |
| 2 | 2.29 | 134 | 84 |
| 3 | 1.65 | 187 | 117 |
| 4 | 1.30 | 237 | 138 |
| 5 | 1.08 | 285 | 178 (approx. drag limit GTS) |
| 6 | 0.88 | 359 | 219 (effectively overdrive) |
| 7 | 0.62 | 497 | 310 (effectively overdrive) |
Final reduction axle ratio 3.25
Note: Speed calculated at 7700rpm with 20 inch wheels and 265/35 tyres for a diameter of 694mm. PDK ratios for the 981 are the same as the PDK ratios found in the Carrera S. The final reduction axle ratio in the Carrera S is 3.44.
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