Boxster/Cayman phased out in Europe?

[RDMcG]

This is not good at all:...

https://www.thedrive.com/news/porsche-stops-sellin...

I think the brand needs a broader price range with more at the entry level. Used to be that it was possible to buy something below a very high price, and now it seems as if there will be nothing below the 911 and Cayenne.

[stanlow45]

Thankfully the UK is no longer part of the EU..

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[SkinnyPete]

stanlow45 said:

Thankfully the UK is no longer part of the EU..

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Amen.

[D4rez]

No point in updating for some markets given the new EV version gets launched next year. They won’t recoup the investment

[Slippydiff]

SkinnyPete said:

stanlow45 said:

Thankfully the UK is no longer part of the EU..

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Amen.

Oh come on, what could you possibly find even vaguely troubling about something like this :

“The objective is to protect Europeans against traffic accidents, poor air quality and climate change, empower them with new mobility solutions that match their changing needs, and defend the competitiveness of European industry.”

Imagine that, the EU empowering it’s citizens

https://911uk.com/threads/intelligent-speed-assist...

Anyone would think these laws were being passed by unelected, unaccountable bureauprats.
Oh hang on …

[HighwayStar]

Slippydiff said:

SkinnyPete said:

stanlow45 said:

Thankfully the UK is no longer part of the EU..

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Amen.

Oh come on, what could you possibly find even vaguely troubling about something like this :

“The objective is to protect Europeans against traffic accidents, poor air quality and climate change, empower them with new mobility solutions that match their changing needs, and defend the competitiveness of European industry.”

Imagine that, the EU empowering it’s citizens

https://911uk.com/threads/intelligent-speed-assist...

Anyone would think these laws were being passed by unelected, unaccountable bureauprats.
Oh hang on …

Hmmm… we can see what the ultimate end of all that will be.

[PaulD86]

Without wishing to upset those of a brexity disposition, the regulation (UNR155) applies to the UNECE. The UNECE contains the following countries:

Albania
Andorra
Armenia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Canada
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Monaco
Montenegro
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Republic of Moldova
North Macedonia
Romania
Russian Federation
San Marino
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Tajikistan
Türkiye
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
United States of America
Uzbekistan

I'm pretty sure many of the above aren't in the EU.... To be fair, it's poor reporting from The Drive, but then again where is the fun in letting the facts get in the way of the story

[Fink-Nottle]

PaulD86 said:

I'm pretty sure many of the above aren't in the EU.... To be fair, it's poor reporting from The Drive, but then again where is the fun in letting the facts get in the way of the story

Help me understand. The UNECE is the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe, and yet per your list the UK and the US are part of it? If so, why according to you will the Boxster and Cayman be sold the UK and the US beyond 2024?

[PaulD86]

Fink-Nottle said:

PaulD86 said:

I'm pretty sure many of the above aren't in the EU.... To be fair, it's poor reporting from The Drive, but then again where is the fun in letting the facts get in the way of the story

Help me understand. The UNECE is the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe, and yet per your list the UK and the US are part of it? If so, why according to you will the Boxster and Cayman be sold the UK and the US beyond 2024?

I haven't commented on where the Boxster and Cayman may be sold beyond 2024. It also isn't "my list", it's a list of countried that are part of the UNECE.

What I have done is to point out that the reason Porsche may be deciding not to continue to sell them in Europe (according to the linked article) has got nothing to do with the EU, as some posters are suggesting. The directive is a UNECE one, not an EU one, and the two are very different. Hope that clarifies.

Edited by PaulD86 on Wednesday 27th March 11:31

[Fink-Nottle]

Right, so you have no thoughts or knowledge on the actual topic of this thread but still couldn't help riding your hobbyhorse into it.

[Youforreal.]

Fink-Nottle said:

Right, so you have no thoughts or knowledge on the actual topic of this thread but still couldn't help riding your hobbyhorse into it.

And your two posts cleared it right up?

[PaulD86]

Fink-Nottle said:

Right, so you have no thoughts or knowledge on the actual topic of this thread but still couldn't help riding your hobbyhorse into it.

Curious that you mention my post as having no thoughts or knowledge of the actual topic, and yet have no issue with the other posts that not only don't have knowledge or thoughts on the topic but go further and post incorrect information on it. My contribution to the thread has been to point out some facts relating to the topic of the thread. You might not like those, but that's your problem. You have contributed nothing. From your tone, I suspect that’s standard for you.

[kevinon]

PaulD86 said:

Fink-Nottle said:

Right, so you have no thoughts or knowledge on the actual topic of this thread but still couldn't help riding your hobbyhorse into it.

Curious that you mention my post as having no thoughts or knowledge of the actual topic, and yet have no issue with the other posts that not only don't have knowledge or thoughts on the topic but go further and post incorrect information on it. My contribution to the thread has been to point out some facts relating to the topic of the thread. You might not like those, but that's your problem. You have contributed nothing. From your tone, I suspect that’s standard for you.

The information that Porsche are not deciding their product strategy because of 'the 'EU' is key info IMHO.

Thanks PaulD. But your info will agitate many here I'm afraid.

[DJMC]

PaulD86 said:

Without wishing to upset those of a brexity disposition, the regulation (UNR155) applies to the UNECE. The UNECE contains the following countries:

Albania
Andorra
Armenia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Belgium
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Bulgaria
Canada
Croatia
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
France
Georgia
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Malta
Monaco
Montenegro
Netherlands
Norway
Poland
Portugal
Republic of Moldova
North Macedonia
Romania
Russian Federation
San Marino
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Tajikistan
Türkiye
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
United States of America
Uzbekistan

I'm pretty sure many of the above aren't in the EU.... To be fair, it's poor reporting from The Drive, but then again where is the fun in letting the facts get in the way of the story

A very informative post. Many thanks for sharing.

[Tony B2]

So what "cyber-security risks" are these regulations designed to combat?

[jamsp00n]

According to this pretty convincing Substack post, it's a bit of both re EU versus UNECE. Though mostly, it's the UNECE.

https://mikeentnergomez.substack.com/p/how-unece-r...

The pertinent reg is indeed UN R155, but it seems it's up to member states if they wish to implement. Apparently, it's been adopted by 54 out of 56 UNECE member states. The exceptions are the US and Canada. Hence Caysters can continue on sale in those countries.

The regulation dictates that all new cars sold from July 2024 must comply. Already, any newly homologated cars had to comply from July 2022 - ie any new model introduced from July 2022 had to comply.

So, as disappointing as it will be for Brexit fantasists, like pretty much every other supposed benefit this isn't one for their ledger. As a matter of objective fact, this is not an EU pox on all our houses. It originates from the UN. It's just the EU has chosen to adopt it and the US hasn't, hence all the coverage implying it's an EU thing - it makes basic sense if all you know is that there's some cyber security reg that applies in the EU but not the US. A quick Google search also throws up this UN doc that confirms we're signed up in the UK (also confirms that UNECE members may 'disagree' with the regulation and choose not to adopt it):

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/MTDSG/Volu...

Long story short, all this seems to imply that the Cayster and ICE Macan are toast in the UK from July, too.

Also, this doesn't seem to be a hang over from the UK's EU membership. The UN doc says the first draft of the treaty amendment containing R155 was dated July 2020, roughly six months after we left the EU. So, we've signed up to it voluntarily and unilaterally, with no EU involvement even indirectly.

[finmac]

jamsp00n said:

According to this pretty convincing Substack post, it's a bit of both re EU versus UNECE. Though mostly, it's the UNECE.

https://mikeentnergomez.substack.com/p/how-unece-r...

The pertinent reg is indeed UN R155, but it seems it's up to member states if they wish to implement. Apparently, it's been adopted by 54 out of 56 UNECE member states. The exceptions are the US and Canada. Hence Caysters can continue on sale in those countries.

The regulation dictates that all new cars sold from July 2024 must comply. Already, any newly homologated cars had to comply from July 2022 - ie any new model introduced from July 2022 had to comply.

So, as disappointing as it will be for Brexit fantasists, like pretty much every other supposed benefit this isn't one for their ledger. As a matter of objective fact, this is not an EU pox on all our houses. It originates from the UN. It's just the EU has chosen to adopt it and the US hasn't, hence all the coverage implying it's an EU thing - it makes basic sense if all you know is that there's some cyber security reg that applies in the EU but not the US. A quick Google search also throws up this UN doc that confirms we're signed up in the UK (also confirms that UNECE members may 'disagree' with the regulation and choose not to adopt it):

https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/MTDSG/Volu...

Long story short, all this seems to imply that the Cayster and ICE Macan are toast in the UK from July, too.

Also, this doesn't seem to be a hang over from the UK's EU membership. The UN doc says the first draft of the treaty amendment containing R155 was dated July 2020, roughly six months after we left the EU. So, we've signed up to it voluntarily and unilaterally, with no EU involvement even indirectly.

Don’t dispute your research etc as it seems to make sense. However, if July was happening in UK also, why would they still be selling the cars - unlike Germany which is “sold out” for everything except the GT4RS and Spyder RS?

[Orangecurry]

jamsp00n said:

So, as disappointing as it will be for Brexit fantasists, like pretty much every other supposed benefit this isn't one for their ledger. As a matter of objective fact, this is not an EU pox on all our houses. It originates from the UN. It's just the EU has chosen to adopt it and the US hasn't, hence all the coverage implying it's an EU thing.

Thanks for your research and factual information of the whole picture.

[Orangecurry]

PaulD86 said:

Without wishing to upset those of a brexity disposition, the regulation (UNR155) applies to the UNECE.

To be fair, it's poor reporting from The Drive, but then again where is the fun in letting the facts get in the way of the story

Thanks for the balanced reporting

[jamsp00n]

finmac said:

Don’t dispute your research etc as it seems to make sense. However, if July was happening in UK also, why would they still be selling the cars - unlike Germany which is “sold out” for everything except the GT4RS and Spyder RS?

Yeah, that's unclear, hence I said "all this seems to imply" rather than "it's definitely the case" that 718 and Macan ICE sales are toast in the UK from July.

We'll have to wait and see. OPCs so often get basic facts relating to stuff like this wrong, I wouldn't take any information from that direction as definitive. Also not clear how the reg applies. Perhaps it allows for orders to be taken through to July as opposed to deliveries until July?

Or perhaps there's scope for UNECE member states to adjust the timing of implementation or the reg. Whatever, it certainly wouldn't be surprising at all if 718 and Macan ICE sales do indeed halt in the UK from July.