987 Manual driving question. Struggling with gearing.
Discussion
The car isn't my primary transportation, so I don't often drive it in low speed scenarios, but compared to my normal turbocharged car I have found myself struggling in low speed scenarios because of the long gearing and low torque.
The long gearing of these cars is very well documented, and I have noticed that at 5-10Mph the car struggles in second gear (Rpm too low) but my feeling is it is still too fast to downshift into first. For example this is an issue when slowing for a junction or roundabout but without needing to stop. To deal with it I have found myself deliberately slowing to under 5Mph to get into first gear, despite it not being necessary according to road/traffic conditions.
How do other drivers deal with this situation? Would you go into first at higher speed or dip the clutch in second and give more throttle?
The long gearing of these cars is very well documented, and I have noticed that at 5-10Mph the car struggles in second gear (Rpm too low) but my feeling is it is still too fast to downshift into first. For example this is an issue when slowing for a junction or roundabout but without needing to stop. To deal with it I have found myself deliberately slowing to under 5Mph to get into first gear, despite it not being necessary according to road/traffic conditions.
How do other drivers deal with this situation? Would you go into first at higher speed or dip the clutch in second and give more throttle?
Definitely select first gear. You'll severely shorten the life of the clutch if you dip and give a bit more throttle in second.
Not sure about 987, but most of the Boxster/Caymans will do 35-40 mph in first gear. Selecting at 5-10 mph is really not an issue, just be positive and gentle to allow the synchromesh to catch up with your request from the gear lever.
Liam
Not sure about 987, but most of the Boxster/Caymans will do 35-40 mph in first gear. Selecting at 5-10 mph is really not an issue, just be positive and gentle to allow the synchromesh to catch up with your request from the gear lever.
Liam
Edited by LiamH66 on Sunday 1st October 22:08
seefarr said:
And if you want to look super cool and hunky whilst protecting the life of your syncros, learn to double-declutch back to 1st. Chicks really dig men who can double-declutch.
It certainly helps with getting into 1st gear. OP should give it a go; it will take some practice if you haven't done it before. 981 with really long gears here. But the answer is as above, use 1st way more than you would in a ‘normal’ car including slowing for junctions, any creaping, even tight hairpins. And get good at heel and toe down into 1st, it’s actually not that hard to get smooth if you practice. (Although I still to a little happy dance in my head when I get a really smooth heel and toe into 1st!) 
Devilspoke said:
981 with really long gears here. But the answer is as above, use 1st way more than you would in a ‘normal’ car including slowing for junctions, any creaping, even tight hairpins. And get good at heel and toe down into 1st, it’s actually not that hard to get smooth if you practice. (Although I still to a little happy dance in my head when I get a really smooth heel and toe into 1st!)
Do you nearly always rev-match when going into first? Would you downshift into first even at 10-15Mph? DarkVeil said:
Devilspoke said:
981 with really long gears here. But the answer is as above, use 1st way more than you would in a ‘normal’ car including slowing for junctions, any creaping, even tight hairpins. And get good at heel and toe down into 1st, it’s actually not that hard to get smooth if you practice. (Although I still to a little happy dance in my head when I get a really smooth heel and toe into 1st!)
Do you nearly always rev-match when going into first? Would you downshift into first even at 10-15Mph? As others have said, learn to either heal and toe or double declutch.
It’s very satisfying giving a huge blip of the throttle before dropping into 1st at 30mph, all beautifully smooth, before screaming out of a tight corner.
Aside from all the driving heroics, synchros tend to get better rather than worse with a little use (but not abuse). It laps the conical sections of the synchro hubs in closer. You can wear them out, but I haven't known anyone do it lately, especially not for 1st gear.
Rev matching and double de-clutching are not quite the same as one another. If you get good at the latter, you'll find the clutch is almost obsolete, at least for the hairpin at Prescott. However you seldom need to be thinking about other traffic pulling onto that hairpin, and coming to a stop, so any temptation to use the left foot to brake is best avoided in traffic, even if the clutch doesn't seem all that useful anymore. You need it to stop without stalling!
You can select first gear on the approach to an "almost stop" in a recent Porsche without any special techniques. Gentle push forwards out of second and towards first (clutch depressed unless you've got seriously good at the double de-clutch), then let it find its own way into gear.
Rev matching won't make that any quicker or easier. Double de-clutching definitely does help, but while everyone else seems to be saying how easy it is, it has never felt that natural for me. I was really glad when we found fewer cars without synchromesh for 1st gear (or for that matter on 2nd in a few I used to drive, and no synchros at all in some). Double de-clutching with heel and toe is a lot harder when it's the only possible way of getting down through the box!
Finally, the split-ring synchromesh used in most manual gearboxes today was a Porsche brainchild debuted in the 356 back in 1952. It would seem a shame not to let it do a bit of the heavy lifting with the gear changes in a modern Porsche!
Liam
Rev matching and double de-clutching are not quite the same as one another. If you get good at the latter, you'll find the clutch is almost obsolete, at least for the hairpin at Prescott. However you seldom need to be thinking about other traffic pulling onto that hairpin, and coming to a stop, so any temptation to use the left foot to brake is best avoided in traffic, even if the clutch doesn't seem all that useful anymore. You need it to stop without stalling!
You can select first gear on the approach to an "almost stop" in a recent Porsche without any special techniques. Gentle push forwards out of second and towards first (clutch depressed unless you've got seriously good at the double de-clutch), then let it find its own way into gear.
Rev matching won't make that any quicker or easier. Double de-clutching definitely does help, but while everyone else seems to be saying how easy it is, it has never felt that natural for me. I was really glad when we found fewer cars without synchromesh for 1st gear (or for that matter on 2nd in a few I used to drive, and no synchros at all in some). Double de-clutching with heel and toe is a lot harder when it's the only possible way of getting down through the box!
Finally, the split-ring synchromesh used in most manual gearboxes today was a Porsche brainchild debuted in the 356 back in 1952. It would seem a shame not to let it do a bit of the heavy lifting with the gear changes in a modern Porsche!
Liam
All manufacturers can be very different on their gear ratios, so if the car is giving feedback that it needs to be in 1st gear then put it in 1st gear. Some have very short 1st gears that are designed to be only used for setting off from a standstill whereas others have longer 1st gears.
The only manual Porsche I’ve driven is my old 994S2 and IIRC, it had a long first that I’d use for more than just setting off from a standstill.
The only manual Porsche I’ve driven is my old 994S2 and IIRC, it had a long first that I’d use for more than just setting off from a standstill.
DarkVeil said:
Devilspoke said:
981 with really long gears here. But the answer is as above, use 1st way more than you would in a ‘normal’ car including slowing for junctions, any creaping, even tight hairpins. And get good at heel and toe down into 1st, it’s actually not that hard to get smooth if you practice. (Although I still to a little happy dance in my head when I get a really smooth heel and toe into 1st!)
Do you nearly always rev-match when going into first? Would you downshift into first even at 10-15Mph? DarkVeil said:
The car isn't my primary transportation, so I don't often drive it in low speed scenarios, but compared to my normal turbocharged car I have found myself struggling in low speed scenarios because of the long gearing and low torque.
The long gearing of these cars is very well documented, and I have noticed that at 5-10Mph the car struggles in second gear (Rpm too low) but my feeling is it is still too fast to downshift into first. For example this is an issue when slowing for a junction or roundabout but without needing to stop. To deal with it I have found myself deliberately slowing to under 5Mph to get into first gear, despite it not being necessary according to road/traffic conditions.
How do other drivers deal with this situation? Would you go into first at higher speed or dip the clutch in second and give more throttle?
Look at the revs, don't look at the speed. The long gearing of these cars is very well documented, and I have noticed that at 5-10Mph the car struggles in second gear (Rpm too low) but my feeling is it is still too fast to downshift into first. For example this is an issue when slowing for a junction or roundabout but without needing to stop. To deal with it I have found myself deliberately slowing to under 5Mph to get into first gear, despite it not being necessary according to road/traffic conditions.
How do other drivers deal with this situation? Would you go into first at higher speed or dip the clutch in second and give more throttle?
Where will the big needle in the middle of your dash land if you go into 1st at your current speed? Ideally once you've changed down, the needle will be pointing directly up at about 4,000pm, right in the sweet spot.
DarkVeil said:
Do you nearly always rev-match when going into first? Would you downshift into first even at 10-15Mph?
Rev matching is what happens after you've selected first and let out the clutch, so it doesn't help with selecting 1st gear. To get into 1st more easily in the first place, double-clutching is needed.1. press clutch to go from 2nd to neutral, release clutch
2. blip the throttle (this gets the gearbox input shaft spinning. Somehow that gets synchros moving better
)3. press clutch again - 1st gear will now slot in more easily.
4. blip the throttle again if you want to rev match
5. release clutch
Drove my 987.1 2.7 for the first time recently after a few years in storage and after my daily remapped VAG TDi with about 300ft Ibs from no revs actually wondered if there was something wrong with the Boxster as zero pull from low down but quickly realised all was well and re-adjusted my driving style,just how they are!
Edited by evojam on Wednesday 4th October 18:49
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