N Rated Tyres

[steady eddie]

2004 Boxster S
I need 4 tyres replaced.
Can’t get Michelin Pilot N3 fronts anywhere in Uk
Tried most tyre dealers and Porsche Belfast who confirmed that fronts are not available and rears have at least 6/8 weeks estimated delivery.
Pirelli Continental and Goodyear no longer do N3 only N4 and again no availability.
As I need to replace now, what do I do?
What non N rated quality tyres would be recommended.
Regards
Eddie

[Twinfan]

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is the obvious answer!

Mega tyres.

[isaldiri]

Definitely wouldn't be going back to a (much) older design tyre just for the sake of the N rating. As long as the size fits, any of the current 'high performance' tyres would be good enough and certainly better than the original pilot sport or PS2 as mentioned. Would always go for the Michelin option (ie PS4S or Cup2 if you want a track tyre) but the continental (whatever sportcontact now)/goodyear (eagle F1 supersport or something) equivalent would also be viable options. I have a bit of a dislike for Pirelli Pzeros so would never take them if I could fwiw but I'm likely a little biased after a couple of bad experiences....

[tr7v8]

isaldiri said:

Definitely wouldn't be going back to a (much) older design tyre just for the sake of the N rating. As long as the size fits, any of the current 'high performance' tyres would be good enough and certainly better than the original pilot sport or PS2 as mentioned. Would always go for the Michelin option (ie PS4S or Cup2 if you want a track tyre) but the continental (whatever sportcontact now)/goodyear (eagle F1 supersport or something) equivalent would also be viable options. I have a bit of a dislike for Pirelli Pzeros so would never take them if I could fwiw but I'm likely a little biased after a couple of bad experiences....

That is my thoughts to a T

[GeeTeeBee]

Any big brand high performance summer tyre in the right size, speed and load ratings will be fine.

Opinions will obviously vary as to which is the best choice. But pretty much all will be objectively better than the now very, very old N rated tyre designs for a 986.

[PaulD86]

The n rating system means that the same named tyre can have had a number of updates. Numbers start at N0 and increase by 1 each tyre update. For my Cayman the n rated tyre is the PS2 N4. People comment that the PS2 is an "old design" but the N4 is the 5th Porsche rated version of the tyre and is not the same as an original non n rated PS2. I'm not suggestuing the PS2 N4 is Michelins latest tyre, but it also isn't the old tech people make it out to be and tread and compounds have been updated.

From experience on a number of cars, I'd avoid P Zeros. I've found them very poor in the wet and cooler temps.

I went from N rated PS2s to PSS and the N rated PS2 was better, depsite being the "older tyre". PS4S are a fairly safe bet if nothing n rated is available - up to you if you want n rated tyres. For extended warranty, it's a must, but on a 19 year old car I don't imagine it is eligable and you can fit what you want. PS4S are 18" and up so you might not get them for your car, but worth a look.

Ultimately it's up to you what value you put on the n rating, but a higher n number (of the same tyre) is a good thing.

[Philvrs]

It would depend on size, but if 18/19” i would go for any non- n rated michelin ps4/goodyear f1/conti sport 7 etc.
For 17” your choice is limited, but again non n-rated dunlop/toyo/falken brand would be fine i’m sure.

[GeeTeeBee]

PaulD86 said:

I'm not suggestuing the PS2 N4 is Michelins latest tyre, but it also isn't the old tech people make it out to be and tread and compounds have been updated.

They're updated, but they're still old tech. And the PS2 'N4' version itself came out a long time ago, let alone the original PS2. Old tech on every level. Things have moved on since. A lot.

It's also worth noting that there are dramatic differences between N-spec tyres for a given car. If you're tried all the available N spec tyres for a given chassis, you quickly realise that N spec doesn't mean much. It doesn't guarantee you a particular sort of tyre or performance characteristics.

Broadly, and especially for older Porsche platforms, N spec is best ignored.

Also...

PaulD86 said:

For extended warranty, it's a must,

I believe this is no longer true.

[Twinfan]

GeeTeeBee said:

I believe this is no longer true.

It will depend if you need a 111-point check or not. If you're extending an existing warranty you'll be fine as no check is required0 however, if re-entering the system after a warranty expiry I think you'll need N-rated tyres to pass the check.

Happy to be corrected if N-rated is no longer part of the 111-point check

[Orangecurry]

steady eddie said:

2004 Boxster S
I need 4 tyres replaced.
Can’t get Michelin Pilot N3 fronts anywhere in Uk
Tried most tyre dealers and Porsche Belfast who confirmed that fronts are not available and rears have at least 6/8 weeks estimated delivery.
Pirelli Continental and Goodyear no longer do N3 only N4 and again no availability.
As I need to replace now, what do I do?
What non N rated quality tyres would be recommended.
Regards
Eddie

As above, IMO and IME steer clear of 1990s R&D of any PS2 and fit something modern....

It does depend on your wheel size:

Read https://www.tyrereviews.com/

specifically this https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...

or if on 17s

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...

Jon has a particular liking for Conti Premium 6 for fast/dry conditions, which you can still get in 17, but any of Goodyear, Conti or Mich in the above tests will never be the wrong tyre.

[AAAndy]

If it is a 2004 car we are talking about here, not sure that is still able to get an extended Porsche warranty. If so, no need to ensure that you've got N-rated tyres.

If it were my car I would likely just find the lastest Michelin tyre for your wheel size - Likely PS4S or PS5.

[kharma45]

AAAndy said:

If it is a 2004 car we are talking about here, not sure that is still able to get an extended Porsche warranty. If so, no need to ensure that you've got N-rated tyres.

If it were my car I would likely just find the lastest Michelin tyre for your wheel size - Likely PS4S or PS5.

Tyre reviews have done a few tests whether OE tyres are worth it or not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COA630Juf_U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JLvNj3z3oY

[Orangecurry]

kharma45 said:

AAAndy said:

If it is a 2004 car we are talking about here, not sure that is still able to get an extended Porsche warranty. If so, no need to ensure that you've got N-rated tyres.

If it were my car I would likely just find the lastest Michelin tyre for your wheel size - Likely PS4S or PS5.

Tyre reviews have done a few tests whether OE tyres are worth it or not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COA630Juf_U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JLvNj3z3oY

You (and Jon) are 100% correct that this should be considered..... IF we were talking about any even vaguely current tyre, which the PS2 is not.

'Recent' N-rated tyres don't fit the 986.

[edc]

986 is generally 17"and 18" and the latest PS4S and Cup 2 etc generally aren't available in the right size in 18" and barely available in any size in 17". They are mostly available for cars with 19" or bigger wheels.

[Twinfan]

'04 could be a 987?

[edc]

Twinfan said:

'04 could be a 987?

It would be an outlier as generally the earliest 987 is 54 plate. The last hurrah 986 the 550 Anniversary are all 04.

[Philvrs]

Orangecurry said:

As above, IMO and IME steer clear of 1990s R&D of any PS2 and fit something modern....

It does depend on your wheel size:

Read https://www.tyrereviews.com/

specifically this https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...

or if on 17s

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Tyre-Revi...

Jon has a particular liking for Conti Premium 6 for fast/dry conditions, which you can still get in 17, but any of Goodyear, Conti or Mich in the above tests will never be the wrong tyre.

I’d love it if jon- would test a new PS2 old tech tyre against a new new tech tyre on an older car like a 2004 boxster to settle the argument, but sadly will never happen ( I would even lend him my boxster equipped with 2021 date PS2 in 17” sizes to rag around a circuit)

[cslwannabe]

Size?
Had a set of N fitment PS2s on my 987 (18s) and now running a set of PS4 - better in every way imo and also cheaper.

[PaulD86]

GeeTeeBee said:

PaulD86 said:

I'm not suggestuing the PS2 N4 is Michelins latest tyre, but it also isn't the old tech people make it out to be and tread and compounds have been updated.

They're updated, but they're still old tech. And the PS2 'N4' version itself came out a long time ago, let alone the original PS2. Old tech on every level. Things have moved on since. A lot.

Lets put it like this. I've run different tyres on my Cayman R and can confirm that the handling on the N4 PS2 is excellent in dry and wet. Indeed they out performed the Pilot Super Sports which replaced them in most circumstances, despite the PSS having an initial launch date 8 years after the original PS2. And even the PS4S is now 7 years old and in the process of being replaced by the PSS5 (because they couldn't call it a 5S, could they). I've driven many miles in a 997 C4S in all weathers on the N-rated PS2 and struggle to think of a time where I thought they were lacking grip for road use... except in the snow. It's easy to get carried away with thinking the latest must be the greatest and to snub anything which is "old tech", but these are tyres for a car which is "old tech" and on these cars they work extremely well. I'll be clear, I'm not suggesting some newer offerings aren't better - they may be, but without trying a pile of tyres on the same car back to back, that's hard to say. What I am saying, however, is that on older Porsches, like the OP has, the PS2 performs very well and is not exactly lacking grip for road use. If the OP tracks their car, then I'd look elsewhere.

Also, do you have any link re the warranty? I'd be somewhat surprised if Porsche had dropped that requirement.

[deutsche.diagnostics]

The main difference between the N rated PS2 tyre is the outside 1/3 of the tyre uses a harder compound than the non N rated tyre, and also the PS4 and PS4S in fact.

This is why the steering feels sharper and the turn in feels far more precise, but you do get far more tyre noise and lose a fair bit of comfort.

Also, the N, N1, N3 and N4 are each time the tyre changes in that particular size, so you could get say a 235.45.18 N3 and a 265.40.18 N4 (made up examples) that are actually the same, just means the 265.40.18 is on its 5th revision as it that size has been out longer. All sizes get revised at the same time, so mixing N3 and N4 is fine if N3 was the latest version.


There is far more discussion on this subject on the US forums, where they do have PS4S's available in the correct sizes for the older cars like 986s, and many felt they lost really lost out on steering feel, even with the 4S, so went back to the N rated PS2.


Many seem to think that a marque rated tyre is when say Porsche or BMW simply test Michelin's tyre and say "Yeah that is good.". The reality is that they tend to work with the tyre manufacturer to get the feel they want from a tyre, which often means changing the compound, or changing the compound in certain parts of the tyre to achieve that. Not all of them, I'm sure more do just grab an off the shelf product and stick their approved mark on them, but I know Porsche did put a firmer compound on the outside 1/3 and sidewall of the later N rated PS2s. Actually, they always were firmer, they actually put a softer compound on the inside 2/3 of the later versions, which makes sense from a design perspective on a sporty car that many use daily.



I'm not saying buy N rated PS2 tyres or not, I don''t. But I know a lot of people in the States who really felt when they moved away from the N rated tyres the car lost some of its precision.

For me, with our crappy UK roads, loosing that steering feel is sort of worth the extra comfort a softer tyre brings and so much quieter. I do miss the steering feel when I get onto a nice smooth twisty road though.