981 GT4 purchase – advice sought

[thomasario]

Hello all. After some years of very happy Lotus ownership, I‘m thinking of returning to Porsche, specifically a 981 GT4.

However, since I don’t have the same finger on the pulse of all things Porsche as I did when I was last an owner I would very much welcome your thoughts and advice.

Here are the various questions I have:

1. 981 or 718?

This is probably a moot point since I don’t think my current budget can stretch to a 718. However, I’d be interested if there were any strong reasons to avoid a 981.

2. Multiple owners.

I’ve been keeping my eye on the OPC stock, and virtually all have 5 or 6 previous owners but low mileage. Why? (And is this likely to have an impact on future sale value)

3. Future values.

All automotive exotica seemed to skyrocket in value during COVID, but that blip seems to be rapidly declining. Finger in the air stuff, of course but any thoughts on future value

4. Reliability.

Years ago, when I bought a 997 C2S from an OPC, the minute it was out of the Porsche warranty, it developed an insatiable appetite for cash and become a nightmare in repair costs. Any thoughts on reliability?

5. Advantage to waiting until March?

Conventional wisdom says to wait until March when the new plate drops so the dealers are awash with PX bargains but my gut feeling suggests this isn’t particularly relevant to a car like this?

Any thoughts, observations or sage wisdom gratefully received.

Cheers, Tom.

Edited by thomasario on Thursday 16th February 13:35

[JayK12]

thomasario said:

Hello all. After some years of very happy Lotus ownership, I‘m thinking of returning to Porsche, specifically a 981 GT4.

However, since I don’t have the same finger on the pulse of all things Porsche as I did when I was last an owner I would very much welcome your thoughts and advice.

Here are the various questions I have:

1. 981 or 718?

This is probably a moot point since I don’t think my current budget can stretch to a 718. However, I’d be interested if there were any strong reasons to avoid a 981.

2. Multiple owners.

I’ve been keeping my eye on the OPC stock, and virtually all have 5 or 6 previous owners but low mileage. Why? (And is this likely to have an impact on future sale value)

3. Future values.

All automotive exotica seemed to skyrocket in value during COVID, but that blip seems to be rapidly declining. Finger in the air stuff, of course but any thoughts on future value

4. Reliability.

Years ago, when I bought a 997 C2S from an OPC, the minute it was out of the Porsche warranty, it developed an insatiable appetite for cash and become a nightmare in repair costs. Any thoughts on reliability?

5. Advantage to waiting until March?

Conventional wisdom says to wait until March when the new plate drops so the dealers are awash with PX bargains but my gut feeling suggests this isn’t particularly relevant to a car like this?

Any thoughts, observations or sage wisdom gratefully received.

Cheers, Tom.

Edited by thomasario on Thursday 16th February 13:35

1. 718 is the newer and faster car, some say a little less raw than the 981. You'd have to drive both really.
2. Most of these cars were flipped around for the first few owners, its nothing new
3. So hard to say but generally Porsche do well on residuals, I think the 981 will hold its money better but its hard to predict the future.
4. There reliable
5. No advantage in my opinion, price might even go up but new plates do not usually affect GT4 values.

[VH02 AML]

If you want to drop me a direct message then I can try to help depending on your budget. I’ve spent the last 3 weeks looking at most 981 and 718s in the 65-85k budget. Can give you some guidance on the cars.
I personally chose 718 as it suits my usage better and at 10-15k more I don’t think the gap will get much smaller. Just a hunch but may be proven wrong.

[thelostboy]

For me its all about what spec you can get for the money. No two cars are quite the same.

I would rather have a PTS 981 though, as the 981 is rarer to start with, an the PTS will make it even more unique.

[Twinfan]

As said above, you may need to drive one of each before deciding as they are a quite different. To me the 981 feels like an after hours skunkworks project that wasn't quite finished, the 718 a fully developed model. Most people will prefer one over the other.

I'm all about the driving, not the looks or noise, and as standard the engine in the 718 is significantly better IMHO.

[JayK12]

Twinfan said:

As said above, you may need to drive one of each before deciding as they are a quite different. To me the 981 feels like an after hours skunkworks project that wasn't quite finished, the 718 a fully developed model. Most people will prefer one over the other.

I'm all about the driving, not the looks or noise, and as standard the engine in the 718 is significantly better IMHO.

Didn't you change the exhaust on your 718? Must be a bit about the noise too somewhat surely?

I think the 981 will go down as the classic over the two, the more raw edge less refined version. Both great cars.

[Twinfan]

JayK12 said:

Didn't you change the exhaust on your 718? Must be a bit about the noise too somewhat surely?

I think the 981 will go down as the classic over the two, the more raw edge less refined version. Both great cars.

Yep, I've changed the exhaust on mine that's a fair comment but it wasn't just for the noise. The standard exhaust silencer is pretty restrictive. However, I'd take the standard exhaust on a 718 over the 981 for the engine improvement.

IMHO, YMMV, other opinons are available etc etc.

[TDT]

I was trying to resist responding to this one, as the topic has resurfaces a number of times over the winter months.

Most recently... in this thread

718 Cayman GT4 was a bit underwhelming

And then JayK12 - really summarised it well above also. You need to consider your budget and then buy the best car you can for it. Also will be informative to actually drive both gen yourself. Try to get same level of trim... i.e. Both CS, or both with buckets, both with Steel, etc, etc,

But speaking as a current 718 GT4 driver and formerly 981 GT4 it really depends on what you want the car for/how you're going to use it.

If you are going to be using the car more regularly and like to have the up-to-date mod-cons, and generally newer - then the 718 GT4 has a broader range of ability but is also a bit softer edged out-of-the-box, unless you get on it and start to work it and then it does wake up.
718 GT4 is pretty polished/refined and well behaved on the road and so if you aren’t in an environment to really drive it dynamically (not the same as fast!) then you aren’t going to get much back from it and it’s just going to look back at you as just rather inadequate, lol.

981 GT4 gives up some of its goods sooner, as it is more rough and ready out of the box, with its characteristics and foibles on display and it sounds fantastic and fruity from the off.
If its just your weekend car, and you want something that's just fun, rough and ready and a little bit of a hot rod - it has to be the 981 GT4 IMO. It was built to be like that - The little bad boy rebel terrier. Interestingly.. it is THIS characteristic that has been carried into the 4RS and turned up to 11.

981 GT4 is THE GT4.. It is the original and there was no RS to follow.. so it was as good as Porsche could do/wanted to do at that time.

718 GT4 is a brilliant facelift update to allow more people to get into the GT brand. Rapid, with some awesome improvements with the engine and aero, making for a more complete and developed product overall, yes, but then consciously held back as the 4RS with the 992 gen GT3 engine was already on plan.

I really enjoyed my time in my 981... but am also looking forward to my journey in the 718 as continuation of the platform.

If you haven't seen it.. this is the reference video for this debate... and covers off all the angles.

Edited by TDT on Thursday 16th February 17:01

[Twinfan]

TDT said:

981 GT4 is THE GT4.. It is the original and there was no RS to follow.. so it was as good as Porsche could do/wanted to do at that time.

718 GT4 is a brilliant facelift update to allow more people to get into the GT brand. Rapid, with some awesome improvements with the engine and aero, making for a more complete and developed product overall, yes, but then consciously held back as the 4RS with the 992 gen GT3 engine was already on plan.

The 981 GT4 was substantially held back T - that Carrera engine was very strangled as you know. It doesn't like to rev out and fuel economy isn't good.

I'm really suprised more people don't pick up on it.

[TDT]

Twinfan said:

The 981 GT4 was substantially held back T - that Carrera engine was very strangled as you know. It doesn't like to rev out and fuel economy isn't good.

I'm really suprised more people don't pick up on it.

981 GT4 3.8 delivered 15hp less than the donor 991 Carrera S. So the on paper difference it’s within the same order as 4RS vs 992 GT3. That said.. I do agree that the power delivery of the standard 981 GT4 vs the 991 Carrera S is different and peaks much earlier.

But context is everything... it depends on what you’ve driven before as to whether or not someone picks up on that type of detail. Drive a 991 GT3 at full chat and every N/A Porsche sports car engine other than Carrera GT is gonna feel breathless.

My point is that Porsche did everything they could at the time, with the 981 GT4
With the 718/982, they did an incremental step on 981 foundations (as they barely changed anything on the chassis side) all the while knowing to save a bit from here and there because we’re gonna build an RS. That’s now patently obvious.

Yep, Porsche HAD to develop a new engine out of necessity…. and it is very good, no about it, but if the 9A1 could have continued, for 718/982 they might well have just run with that like they did in the race car… with X51 powerkit and basically what I built.

At the end of the day 981 was Gen 1, and 718/982 was Gen 2… and as we’ve seen time and time again… as the cars are revised they are improved a number of areas and also lose something in a number of others… just depends what you like.

I have no axe to grind, as I’ve had 981GT4, standard, then tweaked it to X51/718 Clubsport spec, and now moved to 718GT4.. so I’ve spent my money!

Edited by TDT on Thursday 16th February 17:42

[thelostboy]

Actually forgot I had a 718 GT4 new. Imagine that might tell a bit of a story - it was bit easy to forget; a little too refined for me. Sound plays a big part, which I guess isn't Porsche's fault necessarily.

[Twinfan]

I'll have to disagree with you T In my opinion:

• Porsche didn't do everything they could with the 981 GT4 the engine is flawed IMHO. I don't think it's as good as the 3.4 in the S/GTS which is super sweet.
• The new engine is a great all rounder in either the GTS 4.0 or the 718 GT4 with no negatives that I can think of for a large NA lump.
• They haven't really held the regular 718 GT4 back on the chassis side when compared to the 4RS. Other than shocks and springs they're pretty much the same mechanically (aero aside) from what I can gather.

Anyhow, for the OP's benefit as that's what we're here for (!) both GT4s are great cars and people will prefer one over the other. Neither is "better" for everyone, there are pros and cons. You really need to drive them and see for yourself

[VH02 AML]

Twinfan said:

TDT said:

981 GT4 is THE GT4.. It is the original and there was no RS to follow.. so it was as good as Porsche could do/wanted to do at that time.

718 GT4 is a brilliant facelift update to allow more people to get into the GT brand. Rapid, with some awesome improvements with the engine and aero, making for a more complete and developed product overall, yes, but then consciously held back as the 4RS with the 992 gen GT3 engine was already on plan.

The 981 GT4 was substantially held back T - that Carrera engine was very strangled as you know. It doesn't like to rev out and fuel economy isn't good.

I'm really suprised more people don't pick up on it.

Yep, it’s a big reason I’ve gone 718. Long warm up, poor economy and a power/torque curve that’s not as good as it could have been. The 4.0l in the 718 rectifies these issues but also has a different character particularly in terms of sound attributes. Nice to have the choice and neither a bad option, just different as has been said.

[Taffy66]

I also owned a 981GT4 from new(Before track hobby) and currently own a stunning 718GT4. Both cars had buckets and PCCBs so pretty comparable. I bought an used Fabspeed exhaust for my 718 which transforms the car's character to beyond the 981 imo.
The engine in the 718 is superior in all aspects and now feels as fast as it needs to be although I suspect the Fabspeed has given it a little more sparkle at the top end. My late 2020 718 is easily worth the £95k I paid for it which I consider pretty good value for its breadth of abilities.
My new GT4 RS has been built and on its way to my OPC ready for pick up early March. Its going to be a bitter sweet experience as I haven't had enough time in GT4 which I'm going to miss especially the manual box.

[JayK12]

TDT said:

I was trying to resist responding to this one, as the topic has resurfaces a number of times over the winter months.

Most recently... in this thread

718 Cayman GT4 was a bit underwhelming

And then JayK12 - really summarised it well above also. You need to consider your budget and then buy the best car you can for it. Also will be informative to actually drive both gen yourself. Try to get same level of trim... i.e. Both CS, or both with buckets, both with Steel, etc, etc,

But speaking as a current 718 GT4 driver and formerly 981 GT4 it really depends on what you want the car for/how you're going to use it.

If you are going to be using the car more regularly and like to have the up-to-date mod-cons, and generally newer - then the 718 GT4 has a broader range of ability but is also a bit softer edged out-of-the-box, unless you get on it and start to work it and then it does wake up.
718 GT4 is pretty polished/refined and well behaved on the road and so if you aren’t in an environment to really drive it dynamically (not the same as fast!) then you aren’t going to get much back from it and it’s just going to look back at you as just rather inadequate, lol.

981 GT4 gives up some of its goods sooner, as it is more rough and ready out of the box, with its characteristics and foibles on display and it sounds fantastic and fruity from the off.
If its just your weekend car, and you want something that's just fun, rough and ready and a little bit of a hot rod - it has to be the 981 GT4 IMO. It was built to be like that - The little bad boy rebel terrier. Interestingly.. it is THIS characteristic that has been carried into the 4RS and turned up to 11.

981 GT4 is THE GT4.. It is the original and there was no RS to follow.. so it was as good as Porsche could do/wanted to do at that time.

718 GT4 is a brilliant facelift update to allow more people to get into the GT brand. Rapid, with some awesome improvements with the engine and aero, making for a more complete and developed product overall, yes, but then consciously held back as the 4RS with the 992 gen GT3 engine was already on plan.

I really enjoyed my time in my 981... but am also looking forward to my journey in the 718 as continuation of the platform.

If you haven't seen it.. this is the reference video for this debate... and covers off all the angles.

Edited by TDT on Thursday 16th February 17:01

Agree with you here. The 981 will be the classic GT4. Although i do think the 718 looks better, when I drove a 718 Spyder, the engine didn't give any wow factor, I think 981 GT4 maybe because of the sound gave abit more of an exciting feel. Your 981 in clubsport spec would do the trick for me? I dont want refinement, I was something exciting, raw, but still a bit usable, hence why I keep dropping back to the 981, and follow your path over a 718.

[TDT]

thelostboy said:

Actually forgot I had a 718 GT4 new. Imagine that might tell a bit of a story - it was bit easy to forget; a little too refined for me. Sound plays a big part, which I guess isn't Porsche's fault necessarily.

I can understand this... its pros and cons I think.

Twinfan said:

I'll have to disagree with you T In my opinion:

• Porsche didn't do everything they could with the 981 GT4 the engine is flawed IMHO. I don't think it's as good as the 3.4 in the S/GTS which is super sweet.
• The new engine is a great all rounder in either the GTS 4.0 or the 718 GT4 with no negatives that I can think of for a large NA lump.
• They haven't really held the regular 718 GT4 back on the chassis side when compared to the 4RS. Other than shocks and springs they're pretty much the same mechanically (aero aside) from what I can gather.

As you say everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I agree that the 9A1 3.8 in the GT4 doesn't rev out like the 3.4 in the 981 S/GTS... I had a 981 GTS also!. But they got the performance they had targeted from the engine they had.. and at that point in time that made it comparable numbers to a 996.2 GT3 with actually on the road performance akin to 997 GT3. It was a 1st gen car...they didn't know if the market would take it and had a budget to run to.
For the 718 the market was now proven... the new car HAD to have an NA engine... but the old one was no longer allowable... the other option was the GT3 unit.. but they held that back for the other thing they had coming... so they had to make something to fill the gap between old engine and planned 4RS product.

The new engine is powerful, efficient, clean, torquey. But IMO a little bit soulless out of the box... maybe couple choice tweaks might change that but we have to compare stock v stock right?

As for 718 GT4 being held back as a product... It doesn't address the key the criticisms of the 981 GT4 and imo lost out in some areas... but that isn't to say its not a still a great car... but the foundation was already very good.

For 718 GT4 vs 981 GT4

• Gearing was essentially the same manual and PDK... and actually end of gear speeds higher given the slightly higher rev limit.
• 'On paper' modest power lift... although actually it is a decent jump in performance in real life stock vs stock. But for me coming from my tweaked 981... much of a muchness.(which is why i said previously, context is important.. so don't project onto others!)
• Chassis.. untouched from 981 - same dampers, same spring rate - same part numbers.... maybe a PASM update at most, as it does ride differently.
• Sound, feel & weight ... Unfortunately saddled by legislation

4RS addresses and advances in every area..

• Shortest gearing of any Porsche production sports car
• 80hp Power increase
• Massively increased spring rates (almost double) and retuned damping for track work
• Revised lower arms and hubs (Fully rose-jointed/solid mounts - but maybe admittedly still missing one or two little bits for the full monty)
• Crazy soundstage for the driver.
• Body in white change for the front of the car
• Light-Weighted.

Now then TDT, why have you moved from 981 GT4 to 718 GT4.... if the 981 was sooo great?!
Because I fancied the change, after 5years and c36K miles and I wanted a baseline reset for my own driving.
As I stated earlier - the engine topic is moot for me... because I tweaked my 981, so there are pluses and minuses in that area as far as i'm concerned, so for me, I've focussed on the other areas...

• The updated look of the 718 GT4 has really grown on me,
• I like the aero advancements and that actually a number of the 4RS components are direct fitment..
• Full factory warranty is a lovely thing,
• Having a young fresh engine is a lovely thing
• Being able to just say... standard power is a cool thing again... speed will have to come from driving skill and ability to use chassis, aero and brakes.
• 'Cheap' to run and drive the wheels off.

Edited by TDT on Thursday 16th February 20:11

[anonymous-user]

thomasario said:

Here are the various questions I have:

1. 981 or 718?

This is probably a moot point since I don’t think my current budget can stretch to a 718. However, I’d be interested if there were any strong reasons to avoid a 981.

2. Multiple owners.

I’ve been keeping my eye on the OPC stock, and virtually all have 5 or 6 previous owners but low mileage. Why? (And is this likely to have an impact on future sale value)

3. Future values.

All automotive exotica seemed to skyrocket in value during COVID, but that blip seems to be rapidly declining. Finger in the air stuff, of course but any thoughts on future value

I offer what I can:

1. Strong reasons to avoid the 981 are you want a PDK; you want the higher revving 4.0 engine; you want a slightly quieter car.

2. Multiple owners. Lots of possible reasons here, but I’ll give you mine. I bought mine as a fun day/track day fourth car intending to keep it for a long time. I sold it after a year. Not because I didn’t like it, but simply because it wasn’t getting used enough to justify tying up the money; I realised that four cars was one more than we need; no one else in family liked being in it (it’s very much a car that’s enjoyed from the driver’s seat and only the driver’s seat); it wasn’t in truth that enjoyable when driven on roads that aren’t smooth, and a bit anodyne when not driven at 70% or more. So unexpectedly it acquired one more owner than I had expected it would have.

3. Ashgood today put up a 981 GT4 at £59,995. No idea of the spec. Mileage is 50k which explains a chunk of that price - values are very mileage sensitive. That’s odd because generally I think they are solid cars that can take - and benefit from - mileage. Maybe the market still regards them as semi collectible and high mileage cars suffer for that.

[JayK12]

Taffy66 said:

I also owned a 981GT4 from new(Before track hobby) and currently own a stunning 718GT4. Both cars had buckets and PCCBs so pretty comparable. I bought an used Fabspeed exhaust for my 718 which transforms the car's character to beyond the 981 imo.
The engine in the 718 is superior in all aspects and now feels as fast as it needs to be although I suspect the Fabspeed has given it a little more sparkle at the top end. My late 2020 718 is easily worth the £95k I paid for it which I consider pretty good value for its breadth of abilities.
My new GT4 RS has been built and on its way to my OPC ready for pick up early March. Its going to be a bitter sweet experience as I haven't had enough time in GT4 which I'm going to miss especially the manual box.

Got any sound clips of the fabspeed? Mega on the GT4RS, did you go WP? Reckon it will be a keeper finally?

[Taffy66]

JayK12 said:

Got any sound clips of the fabspeed? Mega on the GT4RS, did you go WP? Reckon it will be a keeper finally?

No sounds clips however It really does give the 718GT4 character which is slightly lacking with the standard exhaust IMO. Count myself very fortunate to get a 4RS as I never really begged my OPC for one. They said they want the 4RS going to good customers who regularly track their car.
Its a Black Weissach car with Indigo Blue Mag wheels and matching Accent pack. Inside is Dark Sea Blue with Titanium cage. Couldn't get PTS or PCCBs which is why I went for Black colour for both body and Brake calipers. Really looking forward to picking it up although as I've said will really miss my GT4.
As for it being a keeper, who knows as I said the same for my RS WP. My RS WP was kept for three years and over 8K miles despite everending welsh lockdowns and 14 track days.
The reason I sold my RS for a 718GT4 was because insurance was getting expensive and wanted a Porsche to take on track with much less value. I went from a £180k car down to a sensible £95K but now back up to £145k.
One aspect I much prefer the GT4(inc 4RS) over the 992GT3(RS) is the much more compact size which feels even smaller when driving on B roads.

[LamedonM]

On a lighter side, get the one with carbon package, The illuminated door sill with glowing GT4 decal especially at night makes me chuckle. I love seeing it.

You can surely daily 718 GT4 especially the PDK one. The fuel consumption is surprisingly reasonable, it is not even too harsh with PASM in Sport mode. The booming sound between 2000rpm and 3000 rpm usually when above 60mph in automatic mode (not in PDK Sport which tends to lessen the sound and makes the car more track ready) makes travelling on A road quite enjoyable.