987 Gen 2 Annual Budget
Discussion
I keep reading there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche, but what is a realistic annual budget to keep a 987 Caymen in road worthy and usable condition? I'm not talking about removing every paint chip, or fitting top of the range tyres every year, but would fix something like the air con, suspension knocks etc. The 987.2 should be less expensive than gen 1 with no IMS or RMB to watch out for? The budget would stretch to a higher mileage gen 2, rather than a low mileage example.
Bought mine 5.5 years ago (late 2011 model) with 24K miles on the clock and now just ticked over to 80K. I drive it all year round, in snow, salty roads, (occasional) sunshine and I've always fixed anything like knocking, creaking sounds and such like, but I'm not concerned about keeping it looking perfect as I bought it to drive it.
I feel like the last few years it's averaged £2-3K per year in terms of servicing and fixing things that have gone awry. Mine's a manual so clutch and flywheel (seems like the latter is often in need of replacement at the same time) was at about 60K miles. Coolant crossoverpipes needed doing (subframe drop required) around that time. Every year or so numerous suspension components start knocking and need replacing (control arms, drop links, anything with a rubber bush in it basically) and I had the front shocks (PASM) and springs replaced last year. Likewise front top mounts start creaking and don't seem to last more than about 40K miles for me, if that. I also had the transmission cables snap on me so that's another £800 or so with the upgraded parts. Mine has the sports exhaust which ended up with broken actuators so I just replaced the whole thing (the Porsche upgrade kit is half the price of each half). Oh and discs and pads last me 2 years max.
My previous 2009 base Cayman (which I also drove in the same manner) went through almost identical replacement parts over the years at about the same intervals.
What I will say is Micheline PS4S seem to last a lot longer than previous tyres I've had on either car so a worthy upgrade for longevity as well as how good a tyre they are in general. Also I fitted radiator grilles when I bought it and have never had an issue with the aircon rads on the front being damaged / leaking.
It seems like you either want to get one with low miles before these things need doing and sell it before they do. Or buy a high mileage one that's been well maintained knowing you wan't have this long list of things to keep on top of (so lots of receipts for the sort of things I've mentioned above). A high mileage one that's not been well maintained can certainly be crazily expensive to get up to "standard", depending on your standard. So I'd be careful.
Anyway, got some more front suspensions knocking sounds to sort out in a couple of weeks so no doubt that'll take me back up to my annual average again! Love the car though and having fitted wireless Apple Carplay to the existing PCM unit I've not been remotely tempted to change it for anything newer.
I feel like the last few years it's averaged £2-3K per year in terms of servicing and fixing things that have gone awry. Mine's a manual so clutch and flywheel (seems like the latter is often in need of replacement at the same time) was at about 60K miles. Coolant crossoverpipes needed doing (subframe drop required) around that time. Every year or so numerous suspension components start knocking and need replacing (control arms, drop links, anything with a rubber bush in it basically) and I had the front shocks (PASM) and springs replaced last year. Likewise front top mounts start creaking and don't seem to last more than about 40K miles for me, if that. I also had the transmission cables snap on me so that's another £800 or so with the upgraded parts. Mine has the sports exhaust which ended up with broken actuators so I just replaced the whole thing (the Porsche upgrade kit is half the price of each half). Oh and discs and pads last me 2 years max.
My previous 2009 base Cayman (which I also drove in the same manner) went through almost identical replacement parts over the years at about the same intervals.
What I will say is Micheline PS4S seem to last a lot longer than previous tyres I've had on either car so a worthy upgrade for longevity as well as how good a tyre they are in general. Also I fitted radiator grilles when I bought it and have never had an issue with the aircon rads on the front being damaged / leaking.
It seems like you either want to get one with low miles before these things need doing and sell it before they do. Or buy a high mileage one that's been well maintained knowing you wan't have this long list of things to keep on top of (so lots of receipts for the sort of things I've mentioned above). A high mileage one that's not been well maintained can certainly be crazily expensive to get up to "standard", depending on your standard. So I'd be careful.
Anyway, got some more front suspensions knocking sounds to sort out in a couple of weeks so no doubt that'll take me back up to my annual average again! Love the car though and having fitted wireless Apple Carplay to the existing PCM unit I've not been remotely tempted to change it for anything newer.
Condi said:
I keep reading there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche, but what is a realistic annual budget to keep a 987 Caymen in road worthy and usable condition? I'm not talking about removing every paint chip, or fitting top of the range tyres every year, but would fix something like the air con, suspension knocks etc. The 987.2 should be less expensive than gen 1 with no IMS or RMB to watch out for? The budget would stretch to a higher mileage gen 2, rather than a low mileage example.
I don't think there will be a material yearly maintenance cost difference between a well kept 2.7 987C and a well kept 2.9 987.2C Gen 2 no cheaper to maintain, just has lower risk of catastrophic failure.
Impossible to put a figure on it, anyway. You might buy one and run it for several years and have few costs outside servicing, brakes and tyres. Or over the same time frame you might need coolant pipes, rads, a clutch, condensers, loads of suspension arms and mounts, a high pressure fuel pump, cam solenoids, gear cables, belt tensioner, lambda sensors, blowing exhaust, blown heater matrix etc etc etc.
Could easily have bills of £3-4k in a short period. Or none at all.
I have owned 4x 987, two gen one, two gen two, and done a total of about 150k miles across the four cars. If you're planning on really using the car, I'd budget on minimum £2k repairs a year beyond normal scheduled servicing.
Others will tell you they cost less than that, but that will generally be people who don't use the car much. If you only do a few thousand miles a year or fewer, you could easily go several years without requiring many or even any repairs.
Impossible to put a figure on it, anyway. You might buy one and run it for several years and have few costs outside servicing, brakes and tyres. Or over the same time frame you might need coolant pipes, rads, a clutch, condensers, loads of suspension arms and mounts, a high pressure fuel pump, cam solenoids, gear cables, belt tensioner, lambda sensors, blowing exhaust, blown heater matrix etc etc etc.
Could easily have bills of £3-4k in a short period. Or none at all.
I have owned 4x 987, two gen one, two gen two, and done a total of about 150k miles across the four cars. If you're planning on really using the car, I'd budget on minimum £2k repairs a year beyond normal scheduled servicing.
Others will tell you they cost less than that, but that will generally be people who don't use the car much. If you only do a few thousand miles a year or fewer, you could easily go several years without requiring many or even any repairs.
esotericar said:
Gen 2 no cheaper to maintain, just has lower risk of catastrophic failure.
Impossible to put a figure on it, anyway. You might buy one and run it for several years and have few costs outside servicing, brakes and tyres. Or over the same time frame you might need coolant pipes, rads, a clutch, condensers, loads of suspension arms and mounts, a high pressure fuel pump, cam solenoids, gear cables, belt tensioner, lambda sensors, blowing exhaust, blown heater matrix etc etc etc.
Could easily have bills of £3-4k in a short period. Or none at all.
I have owned 4x 987, two gen one, two gen two, and done a total of about 150k miles across the four cars. If you're planning on really using the car, I'd budget on minimum £2k repairs a year beyond normal scheduled servicing.
Others will tell you they cost less than that, but that will generally be people who don't use the car much. If you only do a few thousand miles a year or fewer, you could easily go several years without requiring many or even any repairs.
Good post. I'm in the latter camp (I've done about 1500 miles since purchase in November last year) and have spent approx £150 on suspension parts.Impossible to put a figure on it, anyway. You might buy one and run it for several years and have few costs outside servicing, brakes and tyres. Or over the same time frame you might need coolant pipes, rads, a clutch, condensers, loads of suspension arms and mounts, a high pressure fuel pump, cam solenoids, gear cables, belt tensioner, lambda sensors, blowing exhaust, blown heater matrix etc etc etc.
Could easily have bills of £3-4k in a short period. Or none at all.
I have owned 4x 987, two gen one, two gen two, and done a total of about 150k miles across the four cars. If you're planning on really using the car, I'd budget on minimum £2k repairs a year beyond normal scheduled servicing.
Others will tell you they cost less than that, but that will generally be people who don't use the car much. If you only do a few thousand miles a year or fewer, you could easily go several years without requiring many or even any repairs.
I've fitted them myself at zero cost though.
Part of the trick is buying well, and knowing what to look for. Suspension knocks, weight of the clutch and rad/condenser condition all spring to mind.
Driven snesibly they dont cost the earth in fuel though. I've just come back from a 400 mile road trip where it averaged 35mpg, including quite a high speed run back down the M1. Nursing it cross country from Leic to Whitby saw 38mpg.
deebs said:
I don't think there will be a material yearly maintenance cost difference between a well kept 2.7 987C and a well kept 2.9 987.2C
Interesting, thanks. I assumed with the additional potentially large bills from the 1st generation cars they would be worth staying away from. Thanks for all the replies. Something to think about.
I've had my 2008 987 for 8 years so its now 14 years old. Total bills for the whole 14 years come to £9600. That does not include road tax but does include all MOT's, regular serving to schedule and all replacements e.g tyres, condensers, batteries etc. So on average it's costing less than £700pa.
purple haze said:
I've had my 2008 987 for 8 years so its now 14 years old. Total bills for the whole 14 years come to £9600. That does not include road tax but does include all MOT's, regular serving to schedule and all replacements e.g tyres, condensers, batteries etc. So on average it's costing less than £700pa.
That's really positive data. Very helpful re man maths.
And won't have depreciated badly either. Result !
purple haze said:
I've had my 2008 987 for 8 years so its now 14 years old. Total bills for the whole 14 years come to £9600. That does not include road tax but does include all MOT's, regular serving to schedule and all replacements e.g tyres, condensers, batteries etc. So on average it's costing less than £700pa.
How many miles have you put on the car in that time? I don't even want to look at my total running costs over the past 6 years and 55k miles but it's a lot higher than that. (I'll total it up when I get home).Has to be fairly moderate mileage with that sort of spend. Having done a total of 150k miles across numerous 987s, annual costs have been far higher than that. Far, far higher.
That's with four different cars. All of them have needed significant regular spend as a consequence of actually driving them. I'd say £2k annually minimum not including tyres.
That's with four different cars. All of them have needed significant regular spend as a consequence of actually driving them. I'd say £2k annually minimum not including tyres.
What kind of mileage will you cover?
As someone else said, Gen 2 won't be any cheaper than a Gen 1 to run really. Maybe the high road tax particular to the Gen 1 3.4 is the main difference. The 2.7 more robust by all accounts if you do go Gen 1 due to the bore score thing which seems to mainly affect the 3.4.
Servicing at a Porsche Specialist Independent - and the scope of what they actually do can vary - is likely to cost in the region of £500-600 every 2 years (perhaps including belt check/change if necessary, oil change and brake fluid change) and jumping to £700-800 every 4 years for a 'major' service which is typically when the spark plugs are changed in addition.
Whether you do an interim annual oil change will depend on what mileage you cover, probably not needed if you are are less than 2000 or so miles a year and not tracking it.
I can't really comment on long term average costs, but I bought a car where pretty much all the common checklist stuff had been done (clutch, crossover pipes, aircon, new brake discs and pads, four new Pilot Sports) at great cost by the previous owner.
But even then after nearly a year of ownership it needed a major service, AOS replaced and then waterpump replaced.
I did the latter myself, so just £120 for the pump plus some coolant. So total spend in year one, mostly near the end, about £1200.
I'm hoping year two will be minimal spend as no consumables likely due, everything I mention above done, and I cover a v low mileage.
So no specialist service due until year 3. But you never know what might crop up - as johnconners mentioned, probably a suspension component will be next.
If you are unlucky and buy a car with a lot of things due, you could easily blow £5k in year one. One reason I would avoid buying any car owned for less than at least a couple of years if possible. You want one where someone has treated it as a keeper rather than something to own briefly before shifting on.
The basics of a meticulous stack of paperwork and four top quality matching tyres, not too many former keepers, reasonable long time for most recent keeper. Properly get underneath it and have look and/or get an independent inspection done.
Even if you don't get an inspection done, ask the owner if they mind it being inspected - and if they do then walk.
Hope that helps. Don't want to put you off, they are very special cars, but be prepared.
As someone else said, Gen 2 won't be any cheaper than a Gen 1 to run really. Maybe the high road tax particular to the Gen 1 3.4 is the main difference. The 2.7 more robust by all accounts if you do go Gen 1 due to the bore score thing which seems to mainly affect the 3.4.
Servicing at a Porsche Specialist Independent - and the scope of what they actually do can vary - is likely to cost in the region of £500-600 every 2 years (perhaps including belt check/change if necessary, oil change and brake fluid change) and jumping to £700-800 every 4 years for a 'major' service which is typically when the spark plugs are changed in addition.
Whether you do an interim annual oil change will depend on what mileage you cover, probably not needed if you are are less than 2000 or so miles a year and not tracking it.
I can't really comment on long term average costs, but I bought a car where pretty much all the common checklist stuff had been done (clutch, crossover pipes, aircon, new brake discs and pads, four new Pilot Sports) at great cost by the previous owner.
But even then after nearly a year of ownership it needed a major service, AOS replaced and then waterpump replaced.
I did the latter myself, so just £120 for the pump plus some coolant. So total spend in year one, mostly near the end, about £1200.
I'm hoping year two will be minimal spend as no consumables likely due, everything I mention above done, and I cover a v low mileage.
So no specialist service due until year 3. But you never know what might crop up - as johnconners mentioned, probably a suspension component will be next.
If you are unlucky and buy a car with a lot of things due, you could easily blow £5k in year one. One reason I would avoid buying any car owned for less than at least a couple of years if possible. You want one where someone has treated it as a keeper rather than something to own briefly before shifting on.
The basics of a meticulous stack of paperwork and four top quality matching tyres, not too many former keepers, reasonable long time for most recent keeper. Properly get underneath it and have look and/or get an independent inspection done.
Even if you don't get an inspection done, ask the owner if they mind it being inspected - and if they do then walk.
Hope that helps. Don't want to put you off, they are very special cars, but be prepared.
KPB1973 said:
esotericar said:
Gen 2 no cheaper to maintain, just has lower risk of catastrophic failure.
Impossible to put a figure on it, anyway. You might buy one and run it for several years and have few costs outside servicing, brakes and tyres. Or over the same time frame you might need coolant pipes, rads, a clutch, condensers, loads of suspension arms and mounts, a high pressure fuel pump, cam solenoids, gear cables, belt tensioner, lambda sensors, blowing exhaust, blown heater matrix etc etc etc.
Could easily have bills of £3-4k in a short period. Or none at all.
I have owned 4x 987, two gen one, two gen two, and done a total of about 150k miles across the four cars. If you're planning on really using the car, I'd budget on minimum £2k repairs a year beyond normal scheduled servicing.
Others will tell you they cost less than that, but that will generally be people who don't use the car much. If you only do a few thousand miles a year or fewer, you could easily go several years without requiring many or even any repairs.
Good post. I'm in the latter camp (I've done about 1500 miles since purchase in November last year) and have spent approx £150 on suspension parts.Impossible to put a figure on it, anyway. You might buy one and run it for several years and have few costs outside servicing, brakes and tyres. Or over the same time frame you might need coolant pipes, rads, a clutch, condensers, loads of suspension arms and mounts, a high pressure fuel pump, cam solenoids, gear cables, belt tensioner, lambda sensors, blowing exhaust, blown heater matrix etc etc etc.
Could easily have bills of £3-4k in a short period. Or none at all.
I have owned 4x 987, two gen one, two gen two, and done a total of about 150k miles across the four cars. If you're planning on really using the car, I'd budget on minimum £2k repairs a year beyond normal scheduled servicing.
Others will tell you they cost less than that, but that will generally be people who don't use the car much. If you only do a few thousand miles a year or fewer, you could easily go several years without requiring many or even any repairs.
I've fitted them myself at zero cost though.
Part of the trick is buying well, and knowing what to look for. Suspension knocks, weight of the clutch and rad/condenser condition all spring to mind.
Good Post from Esotericar
Buying well can help but it really depends a lot on the type of owner / enthusiast you are
If you have to have everything right then you will spend more for the privilege
If you are willing to flex a little on how right is right for You then you could spend less
Perfect fresh suspension will work better but the car will still work with older tired suspension so you pays your money and you makes your choice
Also being willing to tackle some jobs yourself can help a lot with costs as mechanical work can cost 60, 80, 100 or whatever per hour so obviously doing stuff yourself will save you
Stuff like brakes is relatively simple and other stuff I've done is window regulator - the thing which makes the windows go up and down - oil changes - simple gearbox, trickier PDK fluids and engine - suspension arms - exhaust etc
I like to talk about doing jobs myself but in reality it seems I spend more time talking about this than actually doing it
It can feel good when you finally finish a job you've been putting off for a while and in a way I prefer this to just paying someone else to do it but obviously I understand that some people just want it done by a professional which I am clearly not
johnconners said:
Bought mine 5.5 years ago (late 2011 model) with 24K miles on the clock and now just ticked over to 80K. I drive it all year round, in snow, salty roads, (occasional) sunshine and I've always fixed anything like knocking, creaking sounds and such like, but I'm not concerned about keeping it looking perfect as I bought it to drive it.
I feel like the last few years it's averaged £2-3K per year in terms of servicing and fixing things that have gone awry. Mine's a manual so clutch and flywheel (seems like the latter is often in need of replacement at the same time) was at about 60K miles. Coolant crossoverpipes needed doing (subframe drop required) around that time. Every year or so numerous suspension components start knocking and need replacing (control arms, drop links, anything with a rubber bush in it basically) and I had the front shocks (PASM) and springs replaced last year. Likewise front top mounts start creaking and don't seem to last more than about 40K miles for me, if that. I also had the transmission cables snap on me so that's another £800 or so with the upgraded parts. Mine has the sports exhaust which ended up with broken actuators so I just replaced the whole thing (the Porsche upgrade kit is half the price of each half). Oh and discs and pads last me 2 years max.
My previous 2009 base Cayman (which I also drove in the same manner) went through almost identical replacement parts over the years at about the same intervals.
What I will say is Micheline PS4S seem to last a lot longer than previous tyres I've had on either car so a worthy upgrade for longevity as well as how good a tyre they are in general. Also I fitted radiator grilles when I bought it and have never had an issue with the aircon rads on the front being damaged / leaking.
It seems like you either want to get one with low miles before these things need doing and sell it before they do. Or buy a high mileage one that's been well maintained knowing you wan't have this long list of things to keep on top of (so lots of receipts for the sort of things I've mentioned above). A high mileage one that's not been well maintained can certainly be crazily expensive to get up to "standard", depending on your standard. So I'd be careful.
Anyway, got some more front suspensions knocking sounds to sort out in a couple of weeks so no doubt that'll take me back up to my annual average again! Love the car though and having fitted wireless Apple Carplay to the existing PCM unit I've not been remotely tempted to change it for anything newer.
How did you fit Apple CarPlay to the existing PCM unit. Could you please post link or Info?I feel like the last few years it's averaged £2-3K per year in terms of servicing and fixing things that have gone awry. Mine's a manual so clutch and flywheel (seems like the latter is often in need of replacement at the same time) was at about 60K miles. Coolant crossoverpipes needed doing (subframe drop required) around that time. Every year or so numerous suspension components start knocking and need replacing (control arms, drop links, anything with a rubber bush in it basically) and I had the front shocks (PASM) and springs replaced last year. Likewise front top mounts start creaking and don't seem to last more than about 40K miles for me, if that. I also had the transmission cables snap on me so that's another £800 or so with the upgraded parts. Mine has the sports exhaust which ended up with broken actuators so I just replaced the whole thing (the Porsche upgrade kit is half the price of each half). Oh and discs and pads last me 2 years max.
My previous 2009 base Cayman (which I also drove in the same manner) went through almost identical replacement parts over the years at about the same intervals.
What I will say is Micheline PS4S seem to last a lot longer than previous tyres I've had on either car so a worthy upgrade for longevity as well as how good a tyre they are in general. Also I fitted radiator grilles when I bought it and have never had an issue with the aircon rads on the front being damaged / leaking.
It seems like you either want to get one with low miles before these things need doing and sell it before they do. Or buy a high mileage one that's been well maintained knowing you wan't have this long list of things to keep on top of (so lots of receipts for the sort of things I've mentioned above). A high mileage one that's not been well maintained can certainly be crazily expensive to get up to "standard", depending on your standard. So I'd be careful.
Anyway, got some more front suspensions knocking sounds to sort out in a couple of weeks so no doubt that'll take me back up to my annual average again! Love the car though and having fitted wireless Apple Carplay to the existing PCM unit I've not been remotely tempted to change it for anything newer.
Thank you.
khushy said:
I have owned my 987.2 Spyder since 2011 when it had 700 miles on it - now its on 130,000 miles - apart from rigorous annual servicing by the book via an indie, tyres and fuel - its never gone wrong, let me down or cost me an extra bean - utterly bomb proof
Servicing "by the book" covers only replacing fluids, filters, belts, plugs and "inspecting" and or "checking" (but not replacing) components. If so, are you saying that, in 11 years and 130k miles, you've never had to replace any suspension components, batteries, condensers, cooling hoses, brake components, carry out alignments, etc.? I can't think your Sypder will be driving that well anymore.
RiccardoG said:
khushy said:
I have owned my 987.2 Spyder since 2011 when it had 700 miles on it - now its on 130,000 miles - apart from rigorous annual servicing by the book via an indie, tyres and fuel - its never gone wrong, let me down or cost me an extra bean - utterly bomb proof
Servicing "by the book" covers only replacing fluids, filters, belts, plugs and "inspecting" and or "checking" (but not replacing) components. If so, are you saying that, in 11 years and 130k miles, you've never had to replace any suspension components, batteries, condensers, cooling hoses, brake components, carry out alignments, etc.? I can't think your Sypder will be driving that well anymore.
ATM said:
He does mention annual servicing - that is better than Porsche which is 20k or 2 years.
Indeed, I'm on board with that programme as I do the same myself. But every year I do something above and beyond the service. This year was the lazy starter motor, last year the engine mounts (and seized caliper nipples), the year before 4x shock absorbers... etc.Also, the idea that a car that's had a lot spent on it will definitely need a lot more spent makes no sense.
There are lots of items like coolant crosspipes, gearshift cables and the high pressure fuel pump that are unlikely to need replacing multiple times in a short period of time. So if significant money has been spent on that kind of thing, it's a very good thing not a bad thing as some of them (eg coolant pipes) are guaranteed to need doing if they haven't already been done. And others are far less likely to hit you if they've been done recently.
So, on the contrary, it's the 100k mile car that's never 'needed' anything doing that will be carrying loads of deterioration issues associated with common faults.
There are lots of items like coolant crosspipes, gearshift cables and the high pressure fuel pump that are unlikely to need replacing multiple times in a short period of time. So if significant money has been spent on that kind of thing, it's a very good thing not a bad thing as some of them (eg coolant pipes) are guaranteed to need doing if they haven't already been done. And others are far less likely to hit you if they've been done recently.
So, on the contrary, it's the 100k mile car that's never 'needed' anything doing that will be carrying loads of deterioration issues associated with common faults.
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