Tyres - 10 year old tyres on 987.1 from reputable specialist
Discussion
Hi all,
I purchased my first Porsche a couple of weekends ago, a 987.1 Cayman S.
I’ve had a smile for each of the 800 miles I’ve already put on it in, with the exception of a few metres when the back stepped out going around a dry roundabout in 2nd gear at less than 3,000 rpm!
Having checked the tyres I’ve found that the rear left is from 2012 with the rest being 2014 and 2015 (fronts). They’re Bridgestone Potenzas and whilst it wasn’t a warm evening I’d been driving for some time and it was above 5c. Tread levels are 5mm or above on all four corners.
I have three questions that I’d really appreciate some thoughts on:
1) is it acceptable that the specialist sold the vehicle with tyres of this age? If not, what’s my best course of action?
2) is the tyre age likely to be the cause of it stepping out at relatively low speed/revs?
3) what is the recommended replacement tyre? The car is used all year round and will be doing about 5k mile a year (that’s if I can stop making up excuses to go for a drive every day!)
Thanks very much in advance for any advice, I’m aware the tyres are something I could and should have looked at before buying the car but I overlooked that with all the excitement.
I purchased my first Porsche a couple of weekends ago, a 987.1 Cayman S.
I’ve had a smile for each of the 800 miles I’ve already put on it in, with the exception of a few metres when the back stepped out going around a dry roundabout in 2nd gear at less than 3,000 rpm!
Having checked the tyres I’ve found that the rear left is from 2012 with the rest being 2014 and 2015 (fronts). They’re Bridgestone Potenzas and whilst it wasn’t a warm evening I’d been driving for some time and it was above 5c. Tread levels are 5mm or above on all four corners.
I have three questions that I’d really appreciate some thoughts on:
1) is it acceptable that the specialist sold the vehicle with tyres of this age? If not, what’s my best course of action?
2) is the tyre age likely to be the cause of it stepping out at relatively low speed/revs?
3) what is the recommended replacement tyre? The car is used all year round and will be doing about 5k mile a year (that’s if I can stop making up excuses to go for a drive every day!)
Thanks very much in advance for any advice, I’m aware the tyres are something I could and should have looked at before buying the car but I overlooked that with all the excitement.
1. They are just on the cusp of the legal limit then.
If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now.
2. You need to get them changed as that effect is what is reported to have happened in that recent death of a driver.
3. https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pil...
https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/michelin...
If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now.
2. You need to get them changed as that effect is what is reported to have happened in that recent death of a driver.
3. https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pil...
https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/michelin...
If you ask the tyre manufacturer they would almost certainly say they would not recommend use beyond 5 years old.
The specialist will know that perfectly well.
They will of course also tell you that if they had changed them the car would have been £1k more expensive.
But yes, in consideration of the well known drop off in performance of old tyres they were bang out of order to sell a car like that with such old boots on it IMO.
Cheapskate b
ks "used mota" dealer behaviour.
The specialist will know that perfectly well.
They will of course also tell you that if they had changed them the car would have been £1k more expensive.
But yes, in consideration of the well known drop off in performance of old tyres they were bang out of order to sell a car like that with such old boots on it IMO.
Cheapskate b
ks "used mota" dealer behaviour. julian987R said:
1. They are just on the cusp of the legal limit then.
If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now.
2. You need to get them changed as that effect is what is reported to have happened in that recent death of a driver.
3. https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pil...
https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/michelin...
Did you read what he said, all above 5mm.If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now.
2. You need to get them changed as that effect is what is reported to have happened in that recent death of a driver.
3. https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pil...
https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/michelin...
From page 464 of the Cayman R thread:
I'm sad to say that is (or was) my car 
It happened a few weeks back on the way down to the Goodwood Breakfast Club. Enjoying a drive down some nice twisty roads to meet a friend in Midhurst, only to have the back end step out in a big way like never before and despite my best efforts to try and catch it, I ended up in a ditch at 50mph and must have hit all manner of bushes and something hard that did the damage to the pillars and screen.
As for the incident itself, I wasn't driving aggressively and was probably in 4th coming out of the bend. The road was damp in places as it was about 7.15am, probably around 10 degrees. My tyres were 5-6 Yr old Pilot Supersports with about 3mm on the rears. In the whole year I've had it I haven't had the back end step out like it did, so maybe a greasy road. Either way, it didn't end well. These mid-engined cars can bite!
Needless to say I will be looking to do some more limit driving or a PEC course in the future.
Although the damage is bad, I got away with little more than a few cuts and a bruised ego! Obviously completely gutted about the car, but the insurance company were good to deal with and paid out within a month. I only had the car just under a year, but did 9000 smile-filled miles and got a payout that was more than I paid when I bought it.
So despite the incident, my Porsche love hasn't ended and I hope to be back in another at some point. Most likely another R, but maybe something else. There were a few things I didn't get round to doing, like a track day or the NC500 so I still need to scratch that itch.
And if anyone is considering selling a manual R with buckets, then drop me a message.
Stay safe out there!
Replace at five years maximum for tyres, irrespective of how good/pristine they look, or indeed how much tread they have left (what planet are you on Julian ? 
)
As I’ve suggested before, if your car doesn’t do a huge annual mileage, sell the tyres at 3-4 years old when they’ve still got a decent amount of tread left on them, pocket the dish and put it towards a brand new set of grippy tyres. There’s always a polisher out there looking for tyres, which will enable you the driver to drive around on tyres with optimal grip.
IanB_76 said:
julian987R said:
ajondyh said:
Blimey that is a heck of a smash. Hope those involved were ok. That windscreen looks like a head went through it? It says it is repairable and once done worth £40K, seems optimistic to me considering that panel gap Collecting Cars one.
It happened a few weeks back on the way down to the Goodwood Breakfast Club. Enjoying a drive down some nice twisty roads to meet a friend in Midhurst, only to have the back end step out in a big way like never before and despite my best efforts to try and catch it, I ended up in a ditch at 50mph and must have hit all manner of bushes and something hard that did the damage to the pillars and screen.
As for the incident itself, I wasn't driving aggressively and was probably in 4th coming out of the bend. The road was damp in places as it was about 7.15am, probably around 10 degrees. My tyres were 5-6 Yr old Pilot Supersports with about 3mm on the rears. In the whole year I've had it I haven't had the back end step out like it did, so maybe a greasy road. Either way, it didn't end well. These mid-engined cars can bite!
Needless to say I will be looking to do some more limit driving or a PEC course in the future.
Although the damage is bad, I got away with little more than a few cuts and a bruised ego! Obviously completely gutted about the car, but the insurance company were good to deal with and paid out within a month. I only had the car just under a year, but did 9000 smile-filled miles and got a payout that was more than I paid when I bought it.
So despite the incident, my Porsche love hasn't ended and I hope to be back in another at some point. Most likely another R, but maybe something else. There were a few things I didn't get round to doing, like a track day or the NC500 so I still need to scratch that itch.
And if anyone is considering selling a manual R with buckets, then drop me a message.
Stay safe out there!
)As I’ve suggested before, if your car doesn’t do a huge annual mileage, sell the tyres at 3-4 years old when they’ve still got a decent amount of tread left on them, pocket the dish and put it towards a brand new set of grippy tyres. There’s always a polisher out there looking for tyres, which will enable you the driver to drive around on tyres with optimal grip.
supersport said:
julian987R said:
1. They are just on the cusp of the legal limit then.
If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now.
2. You need to get them changed as that effect is what is reported to have happened in that recent death of a driver.
3. https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pil...
https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/michelin...
Did you read what he said, all above 5mm.If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now.
2. You need to get them changed as that effect is what is reported to have happened in that recent death of a driver.
3. https://www.michelin.co.uk/auto/tyres/michelin-pil...
https://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/brands/michelin...
Makes no odds anyway, they need changing.
Slippydiff said:
From page 464 of the Cayman R thread:
I'm sad to say that is (or was) my car
It happened a few weeks back on the way down to the Goodwood Breakfast Club. Enjoying a drive down some nice twisty roads to meet a friend in Midhurst, only to have the back end step out in a big way like never before and despite my best efforts to try and catch it, I ended up in a ditch at 50mph and must have hit all manner of bushes and something hard that did the damage to the pillars and screen.
As for the incident itself, I wasn't driving aggressively and was probably in 4th coming out of the bend. The road was damp in places as it was about 7.15am, probably around 10 degrees. My tyres were 5-6 Yr old Pilot Supersports with about 3mm on the rears. In the whole year I've had it I haven't had the back end step out like it did, so maybe a greasy road. Either way, it didn't end well. These mid-engined cars can bite!
Needless to say I will be looking to do some more limit driving or a PEC course in the future.
Although the damage is bad, I got away with little more than a few cuts and a bruised ego! Obviously completely gutted about the car, but the insurance company were good to deal with and paid out within a month. I only had the car just under a year, but did 9000 smile-filled miles and got a payout that was more than I paid when I bought it.
So despite the incident, my Porsche love hasn't ended and I hope to be back in another at some point. Most likely another R, but maybe something else. There were a few things I didn't get round to doing, like a track day or the NC500 so I still need to scratch that itch.
And if anyone is considering selling a manual R with buckets, then drop me a message.
Stay safe out there!Replace at five years maximum for tyres, irrespective of how good/pristine they look, or indeed how much tread they have left (what planet are you on Julian ? )
As I’ve suggested before, if your car doesn’t do a huge annual mileage, sell the tyres at 3-4 years old when they’ve still got a decent amount of tread left on them, pocket the dish and put it towards a brand new set of grippy tyres. There’s always a polisher out there looking for tyres, which will enable you the driver to drive around on tyres with optimal grip.
You appear to be quoting me yet your comments seem to relate to Ian_B76. Unsure what you are on about to be honest….but for ease, yep I guess, I’m sold, <insert response that meets your approval>IanB_76 said:
julian987R said:
ajondyh said:
Blimey that is a heck of a smash. Hope those involved were ok. That windscreen looks like a head went through it? It says it is repairable and once done worth £40K, seems optimistic to me considering that panel gap Collecting Cars one.It happened a few weeks back on the way down to the Goodwood Breakfast Club. Enjoying a drive down some nice twisty roads to meet a friend in Midhurst, only to have the back end step out in a big way like never before and despite my best efforts to try and catch it, I ended up in a ditch at 50mph and must have hit all manner of bushes and something hard that did the damage to the pillars and screen.
As for the incident itself, I wasn't driving aggressively and was probably in 4th coming out of the bend. The road was damp in places as it was about 7.15am, probably around 10 degrees. My tyres were 5-6 Yr old Pilot Supersports with about 3mm on the rears. In the whole year I've had it I haven't had the back end step out like it did, so maybe a greasy road. Either way, it didn't end well. These mid-engined cars can bite!
Needless to say I will be looking to do some more limit driving or a PEC course in the future.
Although the damage is bad, I got away with little more than a few cuts and a bruised ego! Obviously completely gutted about the car, but the insurance company were good to deal with and paid out within a month. I only had the car just under a year, but did 9000 smile-filled miles and got a payout that was more than I paid when I bought it.
So despite the incident, my Porsche love hasn't ended and I hope to be back in another at some point. Most likely another R, but maybe something else. There were a few things I didn't get round to doing, like a track day or the NC500 so I still need to scratch that itch.
And if anyone is considering selling a manual R with buckets, then drop me a message.
Stay safe out there!
)As I’ve suggested before, if your car doesn’t do a huge annual mileage, sell the tyres at 3-4 years old when they’ve still got a decent amount of tread left on them, pocket the dish and put it towards a brand new set of grippy tyres. There’s always a polisher out there looking for tyres, which will enable you the driver to drive around on tyres with optimal grip.
InitialDave said:
I'd buy new tyres all round.
Yes, it's a bit irritating, but not as irritating as if the dealer had spotted them, replaced them all with new (rubbish) tyres, and then been firmer on price "because it's got new tyres".
I suspect it was probably the dealer who picked up the part worn tyres and fitted them to the car. Yes, it's a bit irritating, but not as irritating as if the dealer had spotted them, replaced them all with new (rubbish) tyres, and then been firmer on price "because it's got new tyres".
julian987R said:
You appear to be quoting me yet your comments seem to relate to Ian_B76. Unsure what you are on about to be honest….but for ease, yep I guess, I’m sold, <insert response that meets your approval>
I was quoting from another thread in which Ian_B76 stated he thought the aged tyres on his Cayman R may have been responsible for him crashing the car. I quoted your comment so Ian's comments were taken in context, nothing more, nothing less. You however have suggested the OP's tyres are just on the cusp of the legal wear limit of 1.6mm when in fact he clearly stated they are all 5mm, but not content with that you appear to be suggesting reporting the vendor for supplying the purchaser with a car with tyres that were on or close to the limit, and that he'd done so knowing the car had been MOT'd ...
I quote you verbatim :
julian987R said:
1. They are just on the cusp of the legal limit then.
If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now
So all you've actually done is muddied the waters with a less than straightforward response to the OP's question ... If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now
Slippydiff said:
julian987R said:
You appear to be quoting me yet your comments seem to relate to Ian_B76. Unsure what you are on about to be honest….but for ease, yep I guess, I’m sold, <insert response that meets your approval>
I was quoting from another thread in which Ian_B76 stated he thought the aged tyres on his Cayman R may have been responsible for him crashing the car. I quoted your comment so Ian's comments were taken in context, nothing more, nothing less. You however have suggested the OP's tyres are just on the cusp of the legal wear limit of 1.6mm when in fact he clearly stated they are all 5mm, but not content with that you appear to be suggesting reporting the vendor for supplying the purchaser with a car with tyres that were on or close to the limit, and that he'd done so knowing the car had been MOT'd ...
I quote you verbatim :
julian987R said:
1. They are just on the cusp of the legal limit then.
If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now
So all you've actually done is muddied the waters with a less than straightforward response to the OP's question ... If the tread has fallen below 1.6 mm and the seller knew via an MOT report then consider this case....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
but its your property now
quite what there is muddying the waters. I feel you are being a bit bent out of shape here over nothing and purposely trying to find fault as opposed to a thanks for even participating and kickstarting the conversation. If you don't agree with my points, fine, and please correct me in a gentlemanly manner. Best regards
Had something similar on a set of Continentals. It was not long after buying my 987S. Tyres weren’t that old (car was only 4 years old at the time) and 4 to 5mm left on the rears - had just picked my son up from school after a spirited drive and was turning right on a roundabout on little throttle.
Found a few suggestions on the Internet that the Continentals were generally pretty poor once they were worn - most tyre tests only tell you how good they are when brand new! After that I bought a set of Michelin PS2 that were faultless. Replaced them 18 months ago with a set of PS4 - they weren’t worn out but were almost 9 years old at this point and I thought I was pushing my luck.
Found a few suggestions on the Internet that the Continentals were generally pretty poor once they were worn - most tyre tests only tell you how good they are when brand new! After that I bought a set of Michelin PS2 that were faultless. Replaced them 18 months ago with a set of PS4 - they weren’t worn out but were almost 9 years old at this point and I thought I was pushing my luck.
julian987R said:
Not really, at all. I replied to draw attention to the tyres being way too old, and that some restitution might be possible if the seller knew that their age had been flagged in an MOT and had not actioned upon it. and then gave example of the fishtailing.
quite what there is muddying the waters. I feel you are being a bit bent out of shape here over nothing and purposely trying to find fault as opposed to a thanks for even participating and kickstarting the conversation. If you don't agree with my points, fine, and please correct me in a gentlemanly manner. Best regards
Which bit of "They are just on the cusp of the legal limit then" have I misconstrued Julian ?quite what there is muddying the waters. I feel you are being a bit bent out of shape here over nothing and purposely trying to find fault as opposed to a thanks for even participating and kickstarting the conversation. If you don't agree with my points, fine, and please correct me in a gentlemanly manner. Best regards
There is no mandatory time limit for the replacement of tyres, so your comments can only be construed as relating to their tread depth, which the OP clearly stated they were all at 5mm.
Yet again you're accusing me of getting bent out of shape, when the opposite is true, you've made an erroneous comment because you failed to read the OP's post properly, and it not the first time you've posted something inaccurate or nonsensical. No one is, least of all me , is "trying to find fault", you posted a comment erroneously and I and others have corrected you. So stop getting bent out of shape, get over yourself and deal with it.
And as for the other guff about being grateful to for you participating and kickstarting the conversation. Seriously ? Get real Julian.
Slippydiff said:
julian987R said:
Not really, at all. I replied to draw attention to the tyres being way too old, and that some restitution might be possible if the seller knew that their age had been flagged in an MOT and had not actioned upon it. and then gave example of the fishtailing.
quite what there is muddying the waters. I feel you are being a bit bent out of shape here over nothing and purposely trying to find fault as opposed to a thanks for even participating and kickstarting the conversation. If you don't agree with my points, fine, and please correct me in a gentlemanly manner. Best regards
Which bit of "They are just on the cusp of the legal limit then" have I misconstrued Julian ?quite what there is muddying the waters. I feel you are being a bit bent out of shape here over nothing and purposely trying to find fault as opposed to a thanks for even participating and kickstarting the conversation. If you don't agree with my points, fine, and please correct me in a gentlemanly manner. Best regards
There is no mandatory time limit for the replacement of tyres, so your comments can only be construed as relating to their tread depth, which the OP clearly stated they were all at 5mm.
Yet again you're accusing me of getting bent out of shape, when the opposite is true, you've made an erroneous comment because you failed to read the OP's post properly, and it not the first time you've posted something inaccurate or nonsensical. No one is, least of all me , is "trying to find fault", you posted a comment erroneously and I and others have corrected you. So stop getting bent out of shape, get over yourself and deal with it.
And as for the other guff about being grateful to for you participating and kickstarting the conversation. Seriously ? Get real Julian.
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