Cup2 vs PS4S on my GT4

[bosshog]

I've got a GT4 arriving next week with brand new Cup 2 tyres all round. I don't plan to do any track days with the car and having had cup 2 on an Evora 410 sport for a couple of years I got fed up with them in the wet (brilliant in the dry though).

So I'm seriously considering taking them off and putting PS4S on them straight away.

On a more important note - will moving over to PS4S effect how the steering feel/feedback? I imaging the PS4S have a softer sidewall so perhaps less good turn in?

thoughts?

Moderator edit: no advertising

[Twinfan]

I run both those tyres on two sets of wheels.

PS4Ss are softer, yes, and the feel isn't as direct. They also get hot very easily. But this is why they're great for what I use them for - a winter tyre. Cup2s are the better tyre as long as it's warm and dry or you're on track.

[bosshog]

Twinfan said:

I run both those tyres on two sets of wheels.

PS4Ss are softer, yes, and the feel isn't as direct. They also get hot very easily. But this is why they're great for what I use them for - a winter tyre. Cup2s are the better tyre as long as it's warm and dry or you're on track.

Thanks, Hmmm thats a bit if a worry about the feel. I moved on from the 991.2 to the GT4 due to lack of feel. Do you have 2 sets of alloys or get a fitter to swap over?

[Twinfan]

As I said above, I have two sets of wheels

The feel difference isn't night and day but you can tell it's not quite as direct due to the PS4Ss moving around a touch more. No issue between November and March which is when I usually run them, but on a warm day they soon get some heat into them and the pressures go up quite a bit.

How much of an issue that would be for you depends on useage and driving style, obviously!

[finmac]

bosshog said:

I've got a GT4 arriving next week with brand new Cup 2 tyres all round. I don't plan to do any track days with the car and having had cup 2 on an Evora 410 sport for a couple of years I got fed up with them in the wet (brilliant in the dry though).

So I'm seriously considering taking them off and putting PS4S on them straight away.

On a more important note - will moving over to PS4S effect how the steering feel/feedback? I imaging the PS4S have a softer sidewall so perhaps less good turn in?

thoughts?

Moderator edit: no advertising

I fitted PS4s to my first GT4 before I took delivery and doing the same with my new one which arrives next month. Great tyres and as I stay in Scotland and use my car a lot I have no desire to have the worry of what are the temperatures/is it raining etc as that would just spoil the ownership experience for me.

[bosshog]

Twinfan said:

How much of an issue that would be for you depends on useage and driving style, obviously!

Thanks for your thoughts.

My main concern really is does it effect turn in, and feedback. I like a really pointy car (having driven Lotus's most of my life). My gut is saying go with the 4S as I'll use the car much more year round rather than taking the family bus, but I'd hate to rob the raison d'être of the GT4 and end up with steering that just so so compared to where it could be. I had an Evora S for a year or 2 running Michelin super sports, when I got the 410 Evora I couldn't believe the difference in feel/turn-in - I put most of the difference down to the tyres. Now the Evora is hydraulic , and the GT4 EPS, so I don't know if the difference will be as pronounced. Its a ~£1000 gamble.

Anyone in Norfolk/Suffolks/Cambs area running MS4S I could compare with?

[ChrisW.]

This is such a hard question to answer because every car and driver and road is different.

My GT4 is substantially modified and I've done as much as I can to optimise the steering feel ... monoballs ... geometry ... it's a 981.

I used to run M Supersports in the cold and wet but recently exchanged these for MPS4S (the MPS's were 5 years old and half worn), and I run MPSCup2's on the lightest wheels I could find with PCCB's for the dry.

Dampers are KW 3 way club sports set up to Manthey ring settings.

In the wet the MPS4S have a lot more grip and give a lot more confidence than MPSC2's. It is not an effort to get heat into them and they are also very good when it dries up, to their limit which is around 0.15g less than Cup2's ... 1.25 v. 1.4 nominal ... though I have seen higher subject to sliding up against the odd kerb etc.

My question is this. On the road, in the wet (or unknown), why would anybody run Cup2's ? They only feel more direct if you are being rough with them which is wasteful in terms of tyre wear ... even if it may feel heroic !

With the MPSS's I was convinced that I could feel the tyre wall flex before the steering started to work ... which was nice because I believed that I could then feel the point at which the steering lightened as the limit of adhesion was getting close, enabling me to manage this.

With the MPS4's I haven't noticed the same initial flex, but they are still great tyres IMHO.

As for your almost new Cup2's, the problem I have is that rears wear slow and fronts wear 3 times faster even when I am trying to make them last longer ... and I recently bought a set from another owner who was doing just what you are considering.

For what it's worth, I paid £750 and took a chance on how long it will take me to use the rears ... I have three pairs in varying states ...

I hope this helps, ... all IMHO.

Regarding wet, if anybody saw me in the morning at Anglesey last year, that was on PS4S. In the afternoon it dried up, and they still did the job

Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 18th February 20:26

[giles panizzi]

There’s probably an argument to give the Cup’s a go and see how you get on. The weather should hopefully improve from this point on and then you can have 6 month's of getting to know the car. I’ve often considered to more winter friendly options for winter month’s.

[RichDS]

Having similar deliberations! Where’s the best place to get the 4S?

[ChrisW.]

Just to say that I would not consider buying a used set of Cup2's for track use. The ones I bought had driven 10 miles form the dealers to the tyre fitters and still had all their "bobbles" and moulding lines.

Honestly, if I did not do track days I would now ask for MPS4S from new .... but I can also understand why anybody would want to try them

[badmastard]

You could also wait for the new MPS5S when hits the shop floor after the summer finishes. The 4S are great tyres for any conditions.

ChrisW. said:

Just to say that I would not consider buying a used set of Cup2's for track use. The ones I bought had driven 10 miles form the dealers to the tyre fitters and still had all their "bobbles" and moulding lines.

Honestly, if I did not do track days I would now ask for MPS4S from new .... but I can also understand why anybody would want to try them

[bosshog]

Thanks all for your input. I've decided to go for the MP4S.

Camskill was the cheapest I could find at the moment.

[Galahad]

I don’t think you’ll regret it. I haven’t tried PS4S on my GT3 yet, but I have them on my CSL and last year did a day at Anglesey, and 40 laps over two days at the ‘ring, where they performed faultlessly, provided I didn’t do more than say 15-20 mins fully on it. My GT3 has got Cup 2 tires on it currently, but I think I will go to PS4S when they wear out.

[RichDS]

Do the OPCs stock the 4S?
I’d rather pay a bit extra and have them on for collection and save on the hassle factor tbh

[nickfrog]

Cup2 sidewalls is not massively stiff for their intended use. Something like a Goodyear Supersport is probably not far off while being as good as a PS4S in terms of compound and void ratio versatility.

[dashobbit]

As weather improves, use the ones from the car

Then swap for PS4s

You won’t notice the difference on tyres on the road. If you do, slow down

[neilf]

RichDS said:

Do the OPCs stock the 4S?
I’d rather pay a bit extra and have them on for collection and save on the hassle factor tbh

OPCs can get all tyres.

I let my OPC replace two rear tyres on my 718 during it’s service a couple of years ago as they were slightly cheaper than BlackCircles and ETyres.

First time I’ve got a decent price for anything out of Porsche!

[Twinfan]

dashobbit said:

You won’t notice the difference on tyres on the road. If you do, slow down

Not true in my experience, you can tell the difference at road speeds

[LiamH66]

I know I'm probably the only person that's going to say this, so with flak jacket and hard hat on, I use a set of P Zero SC on my 981 GT4 for general daily use. I was quite influenced by very limited availability of PS4S at any price when last I needed tyres. They might not be great, but they are more than OK for general road use, and significantly safer on cold/wet/greasy roads than the Dunlop Sport Maxx Race 2 that the car was shod with when I bought it. In fact instantly went from a tram-lining bone-shaker to a relatively civilised road car when I swapped over. I'll continue to enjoy wearing them out, and then see if N rated PS4 availability is any better when I do.

I have a set of Michelin Cup 2 for track day use as well, but I really don't want to wear them out going to work on the generally wet roads of the North West. They are much better than the Dunlops were on the road, but so far I haven't used them in the wet. They only really come into their own on the track, when you can be sure to get them up to working temperature. I can see why so many people like them for that purpose.

So in answer to the OP, IMHO even "poorly rated on the internet" road tyres are better for general everyday road use than "track day" tyres.

Liam

[Jeronh]

12k miles in my GT4 with PS4S after swapping from Cup 2s.

On the road, you're not really going to be pushing at the front if the geo and sway bar combo is setup correctly (though the soft / stiff setup does go through front tyres) and you're not driving like a complete helmet. Mines a pure road car with no track use so Cup 2s are of no benefit. I'm sure you'll enjoy them!