High mile Boxster 987.1 vs 986

[Hifly130]

Hello

Had my BMW 130i for nearly a decade now and love the engine sound of a straight 6 but haven’t scratched the itch of a two seater yet so been looking at 986’s recently.

I’ve looked at two 986 on with dealers at about £7k and to best honest I was pretty surprised how tatty and rundown they were. Stepping back into my 130K mile 16 year old BMW made almost felt like stepping into a new car in comparison to those two boxsters. Maybe they were just bad examples but still going to look at a couple more.

I’m starting to wonder wether I should push the budget up to the £9k mark and get a 100k mile 987. I’m not expecting Ford Fiesta running costs but is the 987 a lot better built and a lot better reliability than the 986? Also which sounds better?

Have to admit although it won’t sound nearly as good mx5 3.5 with a BBR 200 kit is my next option as like the appeal of the odd track day which I’m not sure I would be happy doing in a 986/987.

[r.g.]

Not sure if there is much to choose between a 986 and a 987. It really is a case of going on condition and how well it's been looked after.

It's really important to make sure it has had regular oil changes as the chain guides really suffer if not, and this is something that will be an issue on higher mileage cars.

I bought mine as a bit a project to tinker with and move on. I ended up completely stripping the engine and rebuilding it due to a failed IMS chain guide.

Have a look on my instagram (boxstclever) for how the engine looked internally. If it's been regularly serviced, this wouldn't have happened. If the engine is sound, the rest is pretty easy in comparison to sort.

Rust shouldn't be a problem on these unless it's had a previous repair.

[Hifly130]

Thanks for the reply. I’ve definitely come to realise how it’s been looked after/servicing is very important and the one thing I’m wary of is I’m pretty rubbish at doing work on the car myself so I wouldn’t be able to do the work you have done. I’ll check out your instagram page.

Looked at a few buying guides and that’s one big bonus over the Mazda is little chance of rust.

[Hifly130]

r.g just checked out your instagram page, interesting pics showing what a lack of oil changes does to the engine.I’ve always changed mine on my 130i religiously every year or 6K miles.

[Lox]

Having owned both a 986 and 987.1, I'd say the former has more 'charm', while the latter feels more grown up. 987 looks much better at the front (it's really pretty), but 986 definitely sounds better - engine has way more character and tonal range, but it's down on power.

Pros and cons to both. Unhelpful!

[delays]

I had a 986 and then a 987 gen 2 Cayman.

986 pros: has a charming classic feel to it, and the 2.5 is one of the most solid M96 engines.
987 pros: although they'll be showing their age inside, the interior is done to a better standard, the seating position is better.

Exterior is personal preference. 986 is easier to add the hardtop too if you're storing outside (987 was factory fit only IIRC).

Personally - I would go 987, just to take advantage of it being a slightly newer iteration.

[Hifly130]

My daily is a 5 year old bmw 330i estate which can get me the wife, kids and the dog up-to 60mpg in just under 6 seconds, but it does this in an effortless, boring and uncharacteristic manner. The sound from the turbo 4 cylinder is very muted and artificial so really what I’m looking for from my second car is exactly the opposite to my daily. I want it every time I take it out to be an ‘event’, and involving. It doesn’t have to be fastest off the lights.

I haven’t yet tested a 987 but do wonder if it’s edging closer to my daily in terms of driving experience which might end up going against the whole point of the 2nd car. A classic feel and a great sound track I feel really adds to a driving experience so maybe the 986 is the way to go. Hopefully the next few weeks I’ll get the chance to drive a decent 986.

[anthonysjb]

Loving my 986.2 S. The engine has so much character and it is plenty fast enough. It is a little dated inside, but so is a 987.1 and its so far gone it is almost classic feeling in there.

You don't see many people moaning about the interior on the 996 RS or GT2 so I've never understood why people don't accept the design on the much more affordable 986! Where abouts are you based, might be a PHer local with one?

[T1547]

Hifly130 said:

My daily is a 5 year old bmw 330i estate which can get me the wife, kids and the dog up-to 60mpg in just under 6 seconds, but it does this in an effortless, boring and uncharacteristic manner. The sound from the turbo 4 cylinder is very muted and artificial so really what I’m looking for from my second car is exactly the opposite to my daily. I want it every time I take it out to be an ‘event’, and involving. It doesn’t have to be fastest off the lights.

I haven’t yet tested a 987 but do wonder if it’s edging closer to my daily in terms of driving experience which might end up going against the whole point of the 2nd car. A classic feel and a great sound track I feel really adds to a driving experience so maybe the 986 is the way to go. Hopefully the next few weeks I’ll get the chance to drive a decent 986.

I have a 2 year old 330e and a 987.2 CS - there’s a good and significant amount of clear water between them in terms of driving experience. I’ve never once thought about getting up early on a Sunday morning to take the beemer out for a drive, yet do frequently with the 987. Honestly, they’re completely different

[Fink-Nottle]

I'm one of those who would prefer a 986 over a 987.1, though not over a 987.2. If it must be a 987.1 I would only buy the base model.

The mechanical aka financial reason for the 986 and 987.1 base:

https://youtu.be/iK2gSZL4h8M?t=599

The aesthetic reason for the 986:

https://youtu.be/smRYCmSmqKo

I love that video even though Nathan doesn't say anything particularly new. But he nails the driver reasons and the aesthetic reasons, including the cabin design.

I'm sure the GTS in that video is fab and all, but looks-wise it can't hold a candle to the 986. I saw a black 718 Cayman today, and I didn't recognize it as a Porsche. Then I noticed the logo at the rear and I thought, gee, that is one tiny Panamera... No such confusion with the 986.

ETA:

Many people will know this one, but it bears repeating that this is a great in-depth interview with Grant Larson on the Detroit concept Boxster and then the design of the 986:

https://youtu.be/qQnwJ_-DATk?t=1273

I actually like the 986 better than the concept.

Edited by Fink-Nottle on Sunday 13th February 16:50

[Hifly130]

Fink-Nottle said:

I'm one of those who would prefer a 986 over a 987.1, though not over a 987.2. If it must be a 987.1 I would only buy the base model.

The mechanical aka financial reason for the 986 and 987.1 base:

https://youtu.be/iK2gSZL4h8M?t=599

The aesthetic reason for the 986:

https://youtu.be/smRYCmSmqKo

.

I love that video even though Nathan doesn't say anything particularly new. But he nails the driver reasons and the aesthetic reasons, including the cabin design.

I'm sure the GTS in that video is fab and all, but looks-wise it can't hold a candle to the 986. I saw a black 718 Cayman today, and I didn't recognize it as a Porsche. Then I noticed the logo at the rear and I thought, gee, that is one tiny Panamera... No such confusion with the 986.

ETA:

Many people will know this one, but it bears repeating that this is a great in-depth interview with Grant Larson on the Detroit concept Boxster and then the design of the 986:

https://youtu.be/qQnwJ_-DATk?t=1273

I actually like the 986 better than the concept.

Edited by Fink-Nottle on Sunday 13th February 16:50

Thanks for those videos especially the bore scoring. Sort of puts me off a 986 S. So essentially the least likely to suffer bore scoring is 986 2.5 2.7 and 987.1 base models of which the 986 2.5 is also the least likely to suffer IMS issues. I’ve noticed some of the 2.5 seem to be commanding quite a premium so maybe that’s partly why. Did look at a 2.5 but it was in poor state and needed a lot of work.

For me I think the aesthetically the 986 has gone from being ‘out of date’ to looking more modern day classic in design. It appeals to me more but then again when I try a 987 that might all change.

anthonyjsb I’m in north Hertfordshire.

[Hifly130]

CountVacillate said:

Depends which models you are comparing.

The 986 2.7 and 987 2.7 are five speed with a tall final drive so feel quite slow and sterile on a B road.


The best buy in my opinion is the 986 2.5, it had a higher final drive so the in-gear acceleration wasn’t much different to the 2.7 and had a shorter stroke so revved better, bit more characterful. It feels more willing and sporty to drive despite the 16hp difference compared to the 2.7.

The 2.5 had a smaller exhaust than the 2.7, so swap the larger exhaust from 2.7/3.2 on to a 2.5 for better response.

Another bonus is that the 2.5 has very little issues regarding the IMS.

One last point is the 2.5 was the only cable throttle body 986 car, and feels much better in my experience to drive. Very easy to stick a larger 911 996 cable throttle body on for more response.

The 3.2 986 is a fair bit quicker but still has long gearing despite the six speed box. 987 3.2/3.4 faster still but similar gear ratios and later ones start dipping into the £585 rfl bracket which is just ridiculous.


Your last point regarding considering the Mk3 MX5; it’s quite a dull engine, not very characterful. Doesn’t sound great unless you stick ITB’s on it.

Edited by CountVacillate on Sunday 13th February 23:36

Edited by CountVacillate on Sunday 13th February 23:37

From reading this thread I’ve certainly come round to getting a good condition 2.5 or 2.7 with my absolute top budget £8k ( maybe more if I get a very good price for my 130i). Character is definitely what I’m more after.

With the Mx5 my idea was fully knowing it would have a pretty dull 4 pot but would make up for it by doing a BBR200 upgrade and use it a bit on track. Since starting this thread though quite a few are suffering with corrosion and rust which I was surprised at for a 10 year mk3.5 . Thought they would have sorted the rust issue on the mk3. That’s definitely put me off the mx5.

[edc]

CountVacillate said:

I would recommend a 986 2.5, try and get an early ‘Stuttgart’ built one as they will become more sought-after than the Finnish built examples.

Don’t be completely put off of the mk3 MX5, you may need to budget for a rust repair here and there but with the 986 if the suspension hasn’t been rebuilt recently, in terms of wishbones and ‘coffin arns’ that can also cost a pretty penny to sort so both cars could present you with a fair bill.

A 986 with a sports exhaust does sound great though!

At £8k max it doesn't matter if you buy a Stuttgart one or not. The guy is buying one to drive and enjoy not invest. Not many 2.5 with a sports exhaust either.

[shalmaneser]

r.g. said:

Not sure if there is much to choose between a 986 and a 987. It really is a case of going on condition and how well it's been looked after.

It's really important to make sure it has had regular oil changes as the chain guides really suffer if not, and this is something that will be an issue on higher mileage cars.

I bought mine as a bit a project to tinker with and move on. I ended up completely stripping the engine and rebuilding it due to a failed IMS chain guide.

Have a look on my instagram (boxstclever) for how the engine looked internally. If it's been regularly serviced, this wouldn't have happened. If the engine is sound, the rest is pretty easy in comparison to sort.

Rust shouldn't be a problem on these unless it's had a previous repair.

Rust is definitely becoming an issue on earlier 986's. I think Escy found a fair bit in his 987 when doing the by turbo swap so might start to become an issue on these. But if you're used to BMW's nothing out of the ordinary, check rear arches and jacking points.

[edc]

CountVacillate said:

edc said:

At £8k max it doesn't matter if you buy a Stuttgart one or not. The guy is buying one to drive and enjoy not invest. Not many 2.5 with a sports exhaust either.

Sincerely sorry for providing a little advice old boy.

I didn’t say PSE either I said sports exhaust as in an aftermarket sports exhaust...

Not sure what the point of the snarky old boy comment is about but my point still stands. He's having enough difficulty as it is finding a nice one he likes for his budget without having to unnecessarily narrow the field for something that adds nothing to the experience. At this price level a Stuttgart one isn't going to make you money or add to the enjoyment factor.

PSE or aftermarket exhaust, what would you suggest then? As many complain about aftermarket exhausts as many seem to like them.

For the same money you should get a better condition 986 than 987.

My personal preference is for the 986 over 987 and despite plenty of chances to supposedly upgrade I'm on my second 986 over 10 years. At £8-9k though I wouldn't be buying a 2.5 unless it was a low miler minter. All 986 are old now and need plenty of maintenance to drive as they should.

[Jamescrs]

Thought i'd jump in having bought a 986 2.7 last month, I had a budget of 7K so I was shopping in the same range as the OP.

I looked at a couple that looked good in pics and independent dealers and they turned out to be very rough examples, tried chasing one at a specialist which was a 2.5 but it sold before I could get to it, saw one which was red which wasn't my colour but I thought it worth a look and it was decent enough otherwise, I suspect it would have sold faster and for more if it was any other colour.

In the end I bought mine from a private seller which was a bit of a gamble but it came with a massive history of invoices for IMS, RMS, clutch etc. and a hard top which I will likely sell and will recoup some cash for, mine was 7k and I bought it within 1 hour of it being advertised for sale.

[KPB1973]

Jamescrs said:

Thought i'd jump in having bought a 986 2.7 last month, I had a budget of 7K so I was shopping in the same range as the OP.

I looked at a couple that looked good in pics and independent dealers and they turned out to be very rough examples, tried chasing one at a specialist which was a 2.5 but it sold before I could get to it, saw one which was red which wasn't my colour but I thought it worth a look and it was decent enough otherwise, I suspect it would have sold faster and for more if it was any other colour.

In the end I bought mine from a private seller which was a bit of a gamble but it came with a massive history of invoices for IMS, RMS, clutch etc. and a hard top which I will likely sell and will recoup some cash for, mine was 7k and I bought it within 1 hour of it being advertised for sale.

Congrats. I think the 2.7 is a sweet engine for a B-road. You can keep it in 3rd most of the time and it'll have the legs to pull from low RPM right up to the redline without doing really ridiculous speeds. I really enjoyed the one I had even if the rest of the car wasn't the best.

[Hifly130]

Jamescrs said:

Thought i'd jump in having bought a 986 2.7 last month, I had a budget of 7K so I was shopping in the same range as the OP.

I looked at a couple that looked good in pics and independent dealers and they turned out to be very rough examples, tried chasing one at a specialist which was a 2.5 but it sold before I could get to it, saw one which was red which wasn't my colour but I thought it worth a look and it was decent enough otherwise, I suspect it would have sold faster and for more if it was any other colour.

In the end I bought mine from a private seller which was a bit of a gamble but it came with a massive history of invoices for IMS, RMS, clutch etc. and a hard top which I will likely sell and will recoup some cash for, mine was 7k and I bought it within 1 hour of it being advertised for sale.

I’m starting to think this is going to be my situation. Both cars I’ve seen at £7k have been pretty ropey. Seeing another one at a dealer hopefully Tuesday but think it’s a little thin on history so not holding much hope.

I’ve just got my BMW on autotrader today so when that hopefully sells I’ll start looking at some private sellers as there do seem a few with very extensive service history and long lists of replacement parts. Or buy privately a car that would probably be £2K more if it was at a dealer and use that saving for extra work needed doing. Also at this £7k price point the warranties offered with a dealer are pretty restrictive or have £1000 max payout.

Hope your still enjoying your 2.7

[Escy]

shalmaneser said:

Rust is definitely becoming an issue on earlier 986's. I think Escy found a fair bit in his 987 when doing the by turbo swap so might start to become an issue on these. But if you're used to BMW's nothing out of the ordinary, check rear arches and jacking points.

I might have over sold the rust on my 987. I've been under a couple of S2000's lately, now they have real rust issues, holes in the chassis legs at the back, sills rotten, arches rotten, boot floor gone, the full gambit.

I've had 2 986's and 1 987, all with about 100k miles on them. I noticed, mainly in the engine compartment, where the 987 panels are spot welded together the spot welds themselves are rusty. It's just surface rust but I'd not spotted it on the 986's I had. I also had more issues with the studs for the undertrays, lots of them were rusty and snapped off. I spoke to a specialist who confirmed 9x7's seem to be a bit worse than 9x6's in this regard. I think maybe some cost cutting during production. It's a minor inconvenience, there is no actual rot anywhere on my car.

It has to be said, 986's and 987's are remarkable in terms of corrosion, I've not seen any that are rusty which wasn't due to badly done crash repair work. Compare them to similar vintage cars, BMW E46's, Alfa GTV's, Mercedes SLK, Honda S2000, MX-5, MR2, etc. They all rust. Even if the Porsche might be a little more spicy in terms of maintenance, the running costs are somewhat offset by the fact you know it's solid, you aren't going to be blowing chunks of filler out of the rear arches at the jet wash or needing a sill come MOT time.

In terms of the 986 vs 987, looks are subjective but I prefer the 987. The interior is a set up in quality and design. Drive wise, they are pretty similar, brakes, steering, handling are all closely matched. No experience with the engines though. You can't go wrong with either car, both are great. Your 7k will go a bit further with a 986 in terms of mileage and condition.

In my opinion the one to go for is an early 987 S with the 3.2 engine.

Edited by Escy on Thursday 17th February 21:25

[sdtruscott]

I went for a 987.1 Boxster S (3.2 engine) - as the insurance worked out the same as a 2.7. The 987.1 is also in the 'cheaper' road tax bracket than 3.4 987.2 and probably a 996. 996 would surely be pretty raggedy at this end of the market. I just made sure to buy one that's been properly looked after by specialists throughout its life. It had done 76k miles when I bought it from the only previous owner for £10,500 in Dec 2021. With better photos, they ought to have been charging £12,500, and having put 8k miles on it, I could probably get this for it tomorrow! 987 has most of the interior from a 997 911. Also a timeless design (mine's on private plates and nobody would guess it's 16 years of age)