New insider update on the Cayman E
Discussion
Now we have gathered additional material from different sources within and outside the company. Not only did we get confirmation that it will be a ......
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37692178/2025-p...
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37692178/2025-p...
Edited by julian987R on Thursday 23 September 01:10
For the many EV frothers who have predicted the demise of ICE:
"Not only did we get confirmation that it will be a full battery-electric vehicle, we also gathered that it will be fundamentally detached from the 911—which, we learned, will retain its combustion engine beyond 2030 and may not even become hybridized"
TX.
"Not only did we get confirmation that it will be a full battery-electric vehicle, we also gathered that it will be fundamentally detached from the 911—which, we learned, will retain its combustion engine beyond 2030 and may not even become hybridized"
TX.
Jeez, for the first time I know why people felt the way they did about the demise of vinyl.
I have zero interest in an electric sports car. In my head the entire concept is pointless. Sports car is noise, engagement and mechanical. Electric cars have none of that. As an everyday car they are amazing (apart from the non existent charging network), the Taycan is a brilliant car. But an electric 718, not for me. I'm sure my kids kids will grow up to want one as they won't know any different.
I have zero interest in an electric sports car. In my head the entire concept is pointless. Sports car is noise, engagement and mechanical. Electric cars have none of that. As an everyday car they are amazing (apart from the non existent charging network), the Taycan is a brilliant car. But an electric 718, not for me. I'm sure my kids kids will grow up to want one as they won't know any different.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hybrid tech always struck me as an admission of failure. If a BEV is meant to be adequate then why the need to carry the excess weight of batteries and electric motors together with an internal combustion engine? Answer: because it's not, EV tech is currently flawed and will be until they resolve the range issue.EVs currently require considerable tax subsidies for a reason, left to an open market very few indeed would sell.
Terminator X said:
For the many EV frothers who have predicted the demise of ICE:
"Not only did we get confirmation that it will be a full battery-electric vehicle, we also gathered that it will be fundamentally detached from the 911—which, we learned, will retain its combustion engine beyond 2030 and may not even become hybridized"
TX.
Porsche CEO is on record as saying there will be a Hybrid 992.2 911 which will be the most powerful 911 ever….he said that quite some time ago. "Not only did we get confirmation that it will be a full battery-electric vehicle, we also gathered that it will be fundamentally detached from the 911—which, we learned, will retain its combustion engine beyond 2030 and may not even become hybridized"
TX.
And there’s a Hybrid 911 been spotted at the ‘ring over the summer. They know it’s a hybrid because there’s some regulation that there has to be a sticker on the back of the car if it’s a hybrid.
So given that the information about the 911 is wrong maybe the whole article is….
DMC2 said:
Jeez, for the first time I know why people felt the way they did about the demise of vinyl.
I have zero interest in an electric sports car. In my head the entire concept is pointless. Sports car is noise, engagement and mechanical. Electric cars have none of that. As an everyday car they are amazing (apart from the non existent charging network), the Taycan is a brilliant car. But an electric 718, not for me. I'm sure my kids kids will grow up to want one as they won't know any different.
For me it is more accurate response, feedback, handling and performance. I listened to a Leaf pull out of a junction and accelerate up the road while I was out walking the dog last night, I thought the whine as it did it was subtle, but quite engaging. While there are still some modern cars that sound good, Lexus LC 500 for example, most are now just flat and farty or tuned more for volume and a harsh aggressive tone to match the the angry vents and creases front end. The Porsche flat six can sound absolutely lovely, while the latest turbocharged and filtered models are nice they are still losing the battle. I have zero interest in an electric sports car. In my head the entire concept is pointless. Sports car is noise, engagement and mechanical. Electric cars have none of that. As an everyday car they are amazing (apart from the non existent charging network), the Taycan is a brilliant car. But an electric 718, not for me. I'm sure my kids kids will grow up to want one as they won't know any different.
Cheib said:
Porsche CEO is on record as saying there will be a Hybrid 992.2 911 which will be the most powerful 911 ever….he said that quite some time ago.
Indeed. Which is why it may no longer be accurate. Think safe to say product planning right now is super tricky and a lot of stuff is in flux. The 718 line is clearly being improvised at the moment...would normally have been replaced and popped on the same platform as the 992 etc. But instead, it's still here (essentially a 981.2 on a platform dating from 2012) and they've backtracked on the F4T and whacked an F6 into the GTS. That surely wasn't the original plan for the 718.Not totally convinced a hybrid 992.2 is going to happen. Think the original plan was for a 992.1 hybrid model, but that got punted down the road. At the same time, Porsche is apparently going to hedge with the next Macan and sell the existing combustion car in parallel with the upcoming EV variant, for a time at least.
I don't think Porsche 'needs' a hybrid 911 until the 2030 to 2035 timeframe, when pure ICE sales bans come into force in various places. In the meantime, it certainly looks like Porsche is trying to get some momentum behind synthetic carbon neutral fuels. So, the hope may be that synthetic fuels might arrive in time to prevent the need to switch the 911 to electric while keeping hybrid in the back pocket if it doesn't work out or arrive in time. Anyway, it doesn't look like Porsche is in a rush to do a hybrid 911, that's for sure.
Toltec said:
For me it is more accurate response, feedback, handling and performance. I listened to a Leaf pull out of a junction and accelerate up the road while I was out walking the dog last night, I thought the whine as it did it was subtle, but quite engaging. While there are still some modern cars that sound good, Lexus LC 500 for example, most are now just flat and farty or tuned more for volume and a harsh aggressive tone to match the the angry vents and creases front end. The Porsche flat six can sound absolutely lovely, while the latest turbocharged and filtered models are nice they are still losing the battle.
Regs forcing that in though, left to a free market it would not be happening.TX.
DMC2 said:
Jeez, for the first time I know why people felt the way they did about the demise of vinyl.
I have zero interest in an electric sports car. In my head the entire concept is pointless. Sports car is noise, engagement and mechanical. Electric cars have none of that. As an everyday car they are amazing (apart from the non existent charging network), the Taycan is a brilliant car. But an electric 718, not for me. I'm sure my kids kids will grow up to want one as they won't know any different.
Post of the month for me!I have zero interest in an electric sports car. In my head the entire concept is pointless. Sports car is noise, engagement and mechanical. Electric cars have none of that. As an everyday car they are amazing (apart from the non existent charging network), the Taycan is a brilliant car. But an electric 718, not for me. I'm sure my kids kids will grow up to want one as they won't know any different.
F6C said:
Cheib said:
Porsche CEO is on record as saying there will be a Hybrid 992.2 911 which will be the most powerful 911 ever….he said that quite some time ago.
Indeed. Which is why it may no longer be accurate. Think safe to say product planning right now is super tricky and a lot of stuff is in flux. The 718 line is clearly being improvised at the moment...would normally have been replaced and popped on the same platform as the 992 etc. But instead, it's still here (essentially a 981.2 on a platform dating from 2012) and they've backtracked on the F4T and whacked an F6 into the GTS. That surely wasn't the original plan for the 718.Not totally convinced a hybrid 992.2 is going to happen. Think the original plan was for a 992.1 hybrid model, but that got punted down the road. At the same time, Porsche is apparently going to hedge with the next Macan and sell the existing combustion car in parallel with the upcoming EV variant, for a time at least.
I don't think Porsche 'needs' a hybrid 911 until the 2030 to 2035 timeframe, when pure ICE sales bans come into force in various places. In the meantime, it certainly looks like Porsche is trying to get some momentum behind synthetic carbon neutral fuels. So, the hope may be that synthetic fuels might arrive in time to prevent the need to switch the 911 to electric while keeping hybrid in the back pocket if it doesn't work out or arrive in time. Anyway, it doesn't look like Porsche is in a rush to do a hybrid 911, that's for sure.
Cheib said:
A 911 Hybrid was at the Nurburgring at the end of August. Porsche seem to think they do need a Hybrid 911 before 2030.
Doesn’t prove they’re going sell it. They’re clearly considering it and doing at least some of the development work. We’ll see if that leads to a retail product.So no, it’s not clear Porsche thinks it needs a hybrid 911 before 2030. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn’t.
Porsche has cancelled cars very close to release in the past, not to mention has been known to reverse decisions / row back on changes of direction. No doubt more often than examples we actually know about / are in the public domain.
Given the current unprecedented rate of change of late, don’t think it makes sense to assume too much.
The sense I get, especially with the synthetic fuels stuff, is that Porsche sees the 911 as an exception to the electrification rule and that view is actually hardening. Anyway, from an outside observer perspective, don’t think a hybrid 911 is quite the nailed-on certainty it seemed a couple of years ago…time will tell.
Though nobody has talked about the cost of synthetic fuel or the actual CO2 efficiency when all energy inputs are included ...
It may be more cost effective to super-tax conventional fuel and invest this tax in more achievable mass-gains ?
Insurance companies are finding that most electric car drivers bought their cars to use less energy / make the most of the battery capacity / and are therefore enjoying the quieter pleasures of reading the road better and taking a little more time over a more gentle journey ?
It may be more cost effective to super-tax conventional fuel and invest this tax in more achievable mass-gains ?
Insurance companies are finding that most electric car drivers bought their cars to use less energy / make the most of the battery capacity / and are therefore enjoying the quieter pleasures of reading the road better and taking a little more time over a more gentle journey ?
Edited by ChrisW. on Friday 24th September 10:37
ChrisW. said:
Though nobody has talked about the cost of synthetic fuel or the actual CO2 efficiency when all energy inputs are included ...
It may be more cost effective to super-tax conventional fuel and invest this tax in more achievable mass-gains ?
I doubt it. Supertax conventional fuel and hardly anybody will use it = no revenue. We're already at the point where increased fuel duty leads to lower revenue, which is why fuel duty hasn't been increased in recent years. Once regular fuel prices go above - really roughly - £1.50 a litre, you see drop off in car usage.It may be more cost effective to super-tax conventional fuel and invest this tax in more achievable mass-gains ?
As for the carbon footprint of synthetic fuels, obviously depends how they're made. No reason you couldn't use entirely or very nearly entirely renewables in manufacture. Imagine a big solar plant in the Gulf, near the sea, pulling in sea water, scrubbing carbon from the atmosphere etc to make the fuel, all powered by endless solar. Then use synthetic fuel manufactured in the same way to power the tankers moving it about. All doable, cost is really the only issue.
Personally like the idea. Has the potential to turn existing combustion cars into sustainable vehicles from a carbon emissions perspective - and indirect injection catalysed petrol cars are a non issue from a local emissions perspective, even if that notion is a hard sell. And you don't need any new local infrastructure.
Probably still won't happen. Too much momentum behind battery electric. By the time you'd tooled up enough production capacity for synthetic fuels on a mass scale, there may be very few combustion cars being sold and a dwindling installed base of existing combustion cars.
Just because Porsche are testing a hybrid 911 doesn’t mean they’re going to sell it. That’s what testing is for.
The 991 had space for electric motors in the drivetrain, so I wouldn’t start foaming that the same space in the 992 is a sign it will get a hybrid.
Hybrids at the moment are getting a terrible press as not being particularly green at all, so I doubt Porsche will bother.
The 991 had space for electric motors in the drivetrain, so I wouldn’t start foaming that the same space in the 992 is a sign it will get a hybrid.
Hybrids at the moment are getting a terrible press as not being particularly green at all, so I doubt Porsche will bother.
Haribo Lecter said:
Just because Porsche are testing a hybrid 911 doesn’t mean they’re going to sell it. That’s what testing is for.
The 991 had space for electric motors in the drivetrain, so I wouldn’t start foaming that the same space in the 992 is a sign it will get a hybrid.
Hybrids at the moment are getting a terrible press as not being particularly green at all, so I doubt Porsche will bother.
Hybrids sports cars are not really about the same things as family cars/SUVs etc.. for the likes of Porsche, Mclaren & Ferrari hybrids aren’t about increased range, it’s about additional performance.The 991 had space for electric motors in the drivetrain, so I wouldn’t start foaming that the same space in the 992 is a sign it will get a hybrid.
Hybrids at the moment are getting a terrible press as not being particularly green at all, so I doubt Porsche will bother.
I propose a return to the light weight, high revving, low inertia engine with a manual transmission on hybrid sports cars. No need for a crazy power output, instead it should create drama and double as a range extender. Geofence it to outside cities for public acceptance. Combined with a strong EV motor and a decent battery pack it will still be "green" and keep the total weight in check.
TorAtle said:
I propose a return to the light weight, high revving, low inertia engine with a manual transmission on hybrid sports cars. No need for a crazy power output, instead it should create drama and double as a range extender. Geofence it to outside cities for public acceptance. Combined with a strong EV motor and a decent battery pack it will still be "green" and keep the total weight in check.
Low weight and a decent battery pack are mutually exclusive at the moment. You could just fake up the engine noise and manual shift power delivery while using the mass saved by not having all of the ICE gubbins to fit a bigger battery.Barring hybrid supercars, which are pretty heavy, my personal take is that you are better either sticking with ICE or pure EV if you want something interesting to drive.
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